Was reproduction a part of the world prior to the fall?

[WalterandDebbie]

What do you think?

Genesis 1:26-28 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

The above statement is proving that GOD and his Son have made Adam, let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” Giving Adam and Eve power over that GOD and his Son have made.

Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.

The above verse proves that reproduction of mankind starts, and of: fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, was reporducing by GOD spirit.

 

[dianegcook]

I just quoted parts of your post so you can see why i maybe get a bit confused. Read the highlighted you posted.

O Lucifer, son of the morning( morning star).
I Jesus have sent my angel.....I am the offspring of David and the bright and morning star.
Satan, Lucifer, Dragon.

We must choose between Lucifer and God.

Satan, Lucifer, dragon, was referring to the scriptures I posted in Rev.12:4, Same Devil, but different roles.
The Dragon was referred in that script, where the dragon drew a third of the stars of heaven. The rebellion.

Job 38:7 states when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.

Where did I say that Jesus was Lucifer?

Hope that cleared it up for you.

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

Its ok dianegcook . Im not sure if anything clears anything up you said. It aways just gets confusing. Thats why i do not debate scripture talk often. Language and context is always confusing. I probably have no idea what im talking about half the time, and people me also. Everything is a confused mess. I will leave it there. Have a good day my friend.

Jesus is ALWAYS good, since He is God and God I
is good ALL the time ;)

 

[dianegcook]

Its ok dianegcook . Im not sure if anything clears anything up you said. It aways just gets confusing. Thats why i do not debate scripture talk often. Language and context is always confusing. I probably have no idea what im talking about half the time, and people me also. Everything is a confused mess. I will leave it there. Have a good day my friend.

You have a good day also,

 

[brother Paul]

As it states in Genesis, there was no reproduction until after the fall, as the first offspring were Cain and Abel, the first two sons of Adam and Eve.

True....but it was God's intention (Be fruitful and multiply)

 

[reba]

Was reproduction a part of the world prior to the fall?

The Scriptures do not tell us the length time Adam & Eve were in the Garden...
We do know the boys were born after they 'left'
Was there sex in the garden we dont know..
God created sex . Sex in marriage is not a sin.
Reproduction is not a sin why would it 'have' to be after the fall?
Seems to me it was the first 'command' 'directive' etc God gave to man.
Gen 1:28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

 

[Barbarian]

Even if you take this as a literal history, reproduction was underway since plants had to reproduce in order to feed animals. I see no evidence at all that reproduction wasn't established until after the Fall.

 

[turnorburn]

Even if you take this as a literal history, reproduction was underway since plants had to reproduce in order to feed animals. I see no evidence at all that reproduction wasn't established until after the Fall.

Only faith in God can produce the evidence you seek, not faith in man.

tob

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

Was reproduction a part of the world prior to the fall?

The Scriptures do not tell us the length time Adam & Eve were in the Garden...
We do know the boys were born after they 'left'
Was there sex in the garden we dont know..
God created sex . Sex in marriage is not a sin.
Reproduction is not a sin why would it 'have' to be after the fall?
Seems to me it was the first 'command' 'directive' etc God gave to man.
Gen 1:28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Yes, and Eve did say with God's help I have made a MANchild, insinuating the presence of womanchild (ren) pre-Cain.

 

[reba]

wow that is a lot of insinuating ..Lets not ad to the Scripture what God did not put there...

 

[Deborah13]

Was reproduction a part of the world prior to the fall?

The Scriptures do not tell us the length time Adam & Eve were in the Garden...
We do know the boys were born after they 'left'
Was there sex in the garden we dont know..
God created sex . Sex in marriage is not a sin.
Reproduction is not a sin why would it 'have' to be after the fall?
Seems to me it was the first 'command' 'directive' etc God gave to man.
Gen 1:28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Gen 1:28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.
I agree with you. Seems to me reproduction is a blessing.

 

[Deborah13]

Job 38:7 states when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.

Its ok dianegcook . Im not sure if anything clears anything up you said. It aways just gets confusing. Thats why i do not debate scripture talk often. Language and context is always confusing. I probably have no idea what im talking about half the time, and people me also. Everything is a confused mess. I will leave it there. Have a good day my friend.

stars is plural, more than one morning stars. It's symbolism. Like the sun, moon, and stars.

Even if you take this as a literal history, reproduction was underway since plants had to reproduce in order to feed animals. I see no evidence at all that reproduction wasn't established until after the Fall.

Yup, no reproduction, no fruit on any tree.

Yes, and Eve did say with God's help I have made a MANchild, insinuating the presence of womanchild (ren) pre-Cain.

I think that Eve was saying what billions of mothers have said every year since Eve said it.
"It's a boy."

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

wow that is a lot of insinuating ..Lets not ad to the Scripture what God did not put there...

Hey Reba, not trying to add, was saying there could be an insinuating thing there, that's all. The presence of MANchild vs baby or child is interesting, that's all. It's a theory that's all.

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Even if you take this as a literal history, reproduction was underway since plants had to reproduce in order to feed animals. I see no evidence at all that reproduction wasn't established until after the Fall.

Deborah13 nails it:

Yup, no reproduction, no fruit on any tree.

Darn, I missed that one. Good catch.

 

[Deborah13]

Barbarian observes:
Even if you take this as a literal history, reproduction was underway since plants had to reproduce in order to feed animals. I see no evidence at all that reproduction wasn't established until after the Fall.

Deborah13 nails it:


Darn, I missed that one. Good catch.

Going back to 4th grade science class jogs the memory. Jake was just studying this in his class.

 

[MarkT]

What do you think?

Genesis 1:26-28 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Man was created in the 6th day. In that day God said be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and it was so. Gen. 1:28-30

So the earth was filled and populated before the fall. It wasn't until the morning of the 7th day that Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and she gave some to Adam.

So Cain and Abel were born after the fall, as the Bile says, "Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain" Gen. 4:1 The word 'now' tells us when Cain was born. He was born after the fall. And since the earth was already populated, Cain was able to say, 'whoever finds me will slay me' Gen. 4:14, and the LORD put a mark on Cain 'lest any who came upon him should kill him'. Gen. 4:15

 

[MarkT]

So by Gen. 4 we see Eve has knowledge; Cain was gotten with the help of the LORD. This is significant. It's not just any birth. It's with the help of the LORD. A special person.

 

[Deborah13]

Man was created in the 6th day. In that day God said be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and it was so. So the earth was filled and populated before the fall. It wasn't until the morning of the 7th day that Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and she gave some to Adam.

Gen 1:24 And God said: 'Let the earth bring forth the living creature after its kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after its kind.' And it was so.
Gen 1:27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them; and God said unto them: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that creepeth upon the earth.'
Gen 1:29 And God said: 'Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed - to you it shall be for food;
Gen 1:30 and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is a living soul, I have given every green herb for food.' And it was so.
There isn't any "and it was so" after the command for man to multiply.

So Cain and Abel were born after the fall, as the Bile says, "Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain" Gen. 4:1 The word 'now' tells us when Cain was born. He was born after the fall. And since the earth was already populated, Cain was able to say, 'whoever finds me will slay me' Gen. 4:14, and the LORD put a mark on Cain 'lest any who came upon him should kill him'. Gen. 4:15

I agree Cain was born after the fall. Where does the word say that the world was populated when Cain was born? Or when Abel was born?
When Cain spoke those words he was an adult. In fact, he may have been 400 yrs. old. We don't know. We don't know how many children Eve had given birth to at this time. Eve may have been a few times over great-grandmother.
The word says that when Abel was murdered, Eve said that God gave her a son to replace of Abel, Seth.
However, it does not say that Eve didn't have other children between Abel and Seth.
Gen 4:2 And again she bore his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bore a son, and called his name Seth: 'for God hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel; for Cain slew him.'

 

[MarkT]

Gen 1:24 And God said: 'Let the earth bring forth the living creature after its kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after its kind.' And it was so.
Gen 1:27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them; and God said unto them: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that creepeth upon the earth.'
Gen 1:29 And God said: 'Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed - to you it shall be for food;
Gen 1:30 and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is a living soul, I have given every green herb for food.' And it was so.
There isn't any "and it was so" after the command for man to multiply.

I agree Cain was born after the fall. Where does the word say that the world was populated when Cain was born? Or when Abel was born?
When Cain spoke those words he was an adult. In fact, he may have been 400 yrs. old. We don't know. We don't know how many children Eve had given birth to at this time. Eve may have been a few times over great-grandmother.
The word says that when Abel was murdered, Eve said that God gave her a son to replace of Abel, Seth.
However, it does not say that Eve didn't have other children between Abel and Seth.
Gen 4:2 And again she bore his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bore a son, and called his name Seth: 'for God hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel; for Cain slew him.'

Gen. 1:26-1:31. God created man, male and female, and God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it". God declared it and it was so. This is what God declared and this is what God beheld. It is summed up, 'And it was so. And God saw everything he had made, and behold, it was very good'. Gen.1:30-31

'And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day'. Gen. 1:31 That sums it up. So by the morning of the 7th day, the earth was populated by men.

You can't assume Cain was Adam and Eve's first born. The significance of Cain is he was the first murderer. That's why his name appears in the book. What were they doing before the fall? The LORD said, 'I will multiply your pain in childbearing', which suggests they were having children already.

 

[Deborah13]

Gen. 1:26-1:31. God created man, male and female, and God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it". God declared it and it was so. This is what God declared and this is what God beheld. It is summed up, 'And it was so. And God saw everything he had made, and behold, it was very good'. Gen.1:30-31
"'And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day'. Gen. 1:31 That sums it up. So by the morning of the 7th day, the earth was populated by men.

God commanded them to have children but it does not say God beheld it right then, it does not say "and it was so" following that verse.
Have you got some other verse that shows there was human birth before the fall?

You can't assume Cain was Adam and Eve's first born. The significance of Cain is he was the first murderer. That's why his name appears in the book. What were they doing before the fall? The LORD said, 'I will multiply your pain in childbearing', which suggests they were having children already.

Now this one I can see your point. So I had to look at the Hebrew transliteration and I'm still not sure I can refute your interpretation. I will quote the KJV and then the YLT.
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;....
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman He said, `Multiplying I multiply thy sorrow and thy conception, in sorrow dost thou bear children, ......'
In the KJV where it says 'greatly multiply' both of these translated words are the same word in the Hebrew.
I will have to research this. I think it is possible that this is a case were the Hebrew language uses repeated words and terms that are to give a sense of something other than how it sounds in English.
Like God owns all the cattle on 10,000 hills. Well God owns all cattle on more than 10,000 hills but it's still a large number so you get the sense of what it means.
In this case, "greatly, greatly thy worry/pain and thy pregnancy.....".
We have a member who is talking about learning Hebrew, I wish he'd get busy with that.