WAS THE LAW FULFILLED OR ABOLISHED?

[Jethro Bodine]

Acts 10 shows us that the dietary laws were symbolic of fellowship with heathens and being made unclean by that fellowship.

Just as 1 Corinthians 9:1-14 shows us the law of the oxen was symbolic of feeding those who labor in the field and building of God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Matthew 5:17
17“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Ephesians 2:14-15
who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances

'Abolish' in the Matthew passage is 'katalyō' , while 'abolish' in the Ephesians passage is
'katargeō'.

Jesus did not come to katalyo the law, but he did come to katargeo it.

So, what's the difference in meaning between these two Greek words?

katalyo (Matthew 5:17) - to demolish, destroy, subvert, overthrow.

G2647 - katalyō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G2647 - καταλύω katalýō, kat-al-oo'-o; from and ; to loosen down (disintegrate), i.e. (by implication) to demolish (literally or figuratively); specially (compare ) to halt for the night:—destroy, dissolve, be guest, lodge, come to nought, overthrow, throw down.

www.blueletterbible.org

katargeo (Ephesians 2:15) - to make obsolete, and of no effect.

G2673 - katargeō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G2673 - καταργέω katargéō, kat-arg-eh'-o; from and ; to be (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively:—abolish, cease, cumber, deliver, destroy, do away, become (make) of no (none, without) effect, fail, loose, bring (come) to nought, put away (down), vanish away, make void.

www.blueletterbible.org

Christ did not come to destroy and overthrow the law.
But by his coming he did make it obsolete.

 

[JLB]

NO FOOD DEFILES.

Amen.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm not here to debate the Sabbath.
Originally I was here to describe the difference between fulfill and abolished.

Because Christ has fulfilled the law it can be abolished (set aside as obsolete).

Not to be confused with the law being destroyed and trampled on and overthrown. His coming does not do that. His coming simply makes the law of Moses obsolete. There is no reason, for example, for a person circumcised in heart through faith in Christ to have to be circumcised in the flesh. It's not that the command to be circumcised is broken and violated in Christ, but rather there is simply no reason to do by the hands of men that which is already done by the Spirit of God.

 

[JLB]

Christ did not come to destroy and overthrow the law.
But by his coming he did make it obsolete.

Good points.


I would add that the law of Moses was said to be temporary by the Lord Jesus as well as Paul.

When it is fulfilled it would then be set aside, to make way for the New Covenant.


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18


Two things here:

1. Jesus said He came to fulfill the law.
2. Nothing would be removed from the law “until” it was fulfilled.

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think you must know that Sabbath keeping was the SIGN of the Mosaic Covenant.
Since we are not under the New Covenant, the sign has changed and is Communion, although it can be argued that it could be baptism since theologians do not agree 100% on this.
I like Communion because baptism existed even before Christ's death and HE gave this for a remembrance the night before His crucifixion.

The 'sign' commands of the law were circumcision and keeping the Sabbath rest. Both were signs that you were in covenant with God.

They remain signs that show one is in covenant with God. The believers rest in Christ from the taskmaster of the flesh, and the putting off of the flesh in spiritual circumcision are signs that a person is in covenant with God.

The law is an illustration of spiritual realities.

 

[JLB]

Just as 1 Corinthians 9:1-14 shows us the law of the oxen was symbolic of feeding those who labor in the field and building of God.

Amen.



JLB

 

[JLB]

There is no reason to, for example, for a person circumcised in heart through faith in Christ to have to be circumcised in the flesh.

HOME RUN!





JLB

 

[JLB]

there is simply no reason to do by the hands of men that which is already done by the Spirit of God.

I had forgotten how well you worded things.

Well said.



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I had forgotten how well you worded things.

Well said.



JLB

Ralph taught me well.

I guess you could say he's my spiritual father and mentor.
How fitting for this day.

 

[JLB]

Ralph taught me well.

Amen.

Poor Ellie May.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Amen.

Poor Ellie May.

She played with her critters out in the cement pond.
I sat at the feet of Ralph.

Need I say more?

 

[jasonc]

She played with her critters out in the cement pond.
I sat at the feet of Ralph.

Need I say more?

he also learn billiards in the billiard room.

that said food is a problem and sin if its faux paux italian
olive garden, prime example.lol

 

[JLB]

She played with her critters out in the cement pond.
I sat at the feet of Ralph.

Need I say more?

Nuff said.

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering,

Would you please help me to better understand your position?

In the Old Testament God’s Law - ceremonial, civil and moral - were given. In the NT, it is stated that Jesus fulfilled that Law (Matthew 5:17; Hebrews 10:9).

Do you agree that the NT fulfilled the OT? Or, did it abolish the OT Law for Christians?

Just askin'.

Oz

Easy.
As you've correctly stated, the O.T. laws were in categories....
The Law of Moses was Ceremonial, Civil and Moral.

The Ceremonial and Civil laws have been abolished.

We cannot say that the moral law has been abolished because it would mean we can sin
with no consequence. If a law has been abolished....it has been abolished/done away with/destroyed.

The moral law will be in force forever....
I understand the moral law to be the 10 commandments, fulfilled by Christ because He made the Moral Law more complete. For instance adultery was brought to a heart matter, not just an action.

All the writers of the N.T. attested to this. Paul wrote about how we should behave in every letter of his. Behavior is a moral attitude.

Ceremonial Laws cannot be kept.
No more sacrifices.
We can eat what we want to.
We don't have priests.
We don't keep festivals.


Civil Laws cannot be kept.
Simply, we are not living under the rule of the Sanhedrin, or prior rule,
or subsequent rule. If we have a debt, the rules are different today, same for divorce, inheritance, property redemption, Sabbath breaking, rebellious children, warefare, etc.

Again...the Moral Law will never be abolished.

We are required to keep the Moral Law.

After Jesus stated He did not come to abolish the Law,,,,He went on to speak of Moral Law.
Actually, I can't remember one Law/Command He said to keep that was not Moral....I believe Jesus spoke ONLY of moral commands.

 

[GodsGrace]

everything you said makes sense

one question - do you believe only the moral laws are in effect?

if so which ones? - not all of the 10 are moral - some are spiritual

The first 4 commandments are spiritual.
Jesus confirmed that we are to keep these by teaching that we are to Love God.
If we love God, the 4 will be followed.

And, yes, I believe ONLY the Moral Law is still in effect, but I also believe we are to follow our conscience. Some like to worship on Saturda --- it's not my place to argue about this.

same with the rest of the 613 - some are moral - some are spiritual - some are medical - some are agricultural - some are for marriage - etc - all of them show love for God and for man

the feasts have huge spiritual and prophetic meaning - when the feasts are observed to the detail instructed there is so much profound meaning for past present future

keeping sabbath the way God says has deep spiritual and natural blessings

same with circumcision

Of course, we don't suspend all in the O.T. just because it's not Law anymore.
If a baby needs to be circumcised because the parents follow this belief...then the 8th day is still the best time to do the procedure for medical purposes (bleeding).

It was not a good idea to eat pork back then due to health problem with parasites.

If we are circumcised, or we eat pork or we do NOT eat pork...will make no difference to God.
If we hate God or steal or covet,,,,then we will be sinning.

I'm finding it strange that this is so difficult to understand.

 

[JLB]

The first 4 commandments are spiritual.
Jesus confirmed that we are to keep these by teaching that we are to Love God.
If we love God, the 4 will be followed.

And, yes, I believe ONLY the Moral Law is still in effect, but I also believe we are to follow our conscience. Some like to worship on Saturda --- it's not my place to argue about this.

Ok.

Please show us in the New Testament where observing the Sabbath as the law of Moses required was taught by Jesus, or Paul or anyone.


How is not kindling a fire to cook, somehow a moral law?



JLB

 

[JLB]

If we are circumcised, or we eat pork or we do NOT eat pork...will make no difference to God.
If we hate God or steal or covet,,,,then we will be sinning.

Amen.

 

[JLB]

I'm finding it strange that this is so difficult to understand.

It’s simple to understand.

Yet there are some Christians who promote the idea of becoming physically circumcised and not eating certain foods, and observing one day over another, because they believe keeping the law of Moses is required by Christians.


Some even attend synagogues to sit under unbelieving Jews who teach that Jesus was not the Messiah but rather a false prophet, to learn from them about the law of Moses.


Then they come to these Forums to teach Christians to observe the things they were taught in these synagogues.




JLB

 

[JLB]

We don't have priests.

In the New Covenant, we are priests and the Lord Himself is our High Priest.



JLB