WAS THE LAW FULFILLED OR ABOLISHED?

[JLB]

19For I have chosen him (Abraham), so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just... - Genesis 18:19

Besides circumcision, I don't know off hand if any of these 'ways' are specifically listed.

God does not list them but desires to teach us as He indicated to Adam, to only partake of the tree of life.


When we “walk before Him”, or walk with Him, or walk in His presence, which is another way of saying “walk in the light as He is in the light” or “walk in the Spirit” .... He then teaches us personally, in which He imparts both faith and grace (the ability to do what He says).

If He gives us a list of commandments then we would just memorize that instead of fellowshipping and communing with Him and learning directing from Him, as Abraham did.


You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40


This is the joy of knowing Him and being taught by Him.


But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” Jeremiah 31:33-34


This is the promise of the New Covenant, whereby we have a personal relationship with the Lord, to know Him, and be taught by Him, and be empowered by His Spirit, to walk in righteousness; the righteousness according to faith ...
moment by moment.


But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27


The balance to this is, the Lord gave instructions to His Apostles to make disciples and teach them all the things He taught them.

The New Testament as well as the Old are scriptures and instructions in the way of righteousness.


However, the Lord teaches us and leads and guides us into all truth.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Bottom feeder - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Note carp,grouper ,flounder .these I can easily catch and or eat at a seafood restaurant .there s one that sells them all ,called lightsies ,if its in,the water you can find it there .grouper is called jewfish,aka goliath grouper .those are big ,ugly things but delicious

Carp.... :drool

 

[jasonc]

Carp.... :drool

Never tried it

 

[JLB]

You say the Abrahamic Covenant had laws in it.
What laws did it have in it?

The law of the Lord.

The Royal law of love. God is love. His Commandments are about love; Loving God and loving our neighbor.

The Lord that Abraham was in covenant with, is the same Lord we are in covenant with.

The same Lord who grafts us into that Covenant, and writes His laws on our heart and in our mind.

The same Lord that was the source (Root) for Abraham Is the same Lord who is our Root.

• Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith.

For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
Romans 11:13-22



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Psalms 119:12
Blessed are you, O Lord;
teach me your statutes!
13 With my lips I declare
all the rules[c] of your mouth.
14 In the way of your testimonies I delight
as much as in all riches.
15 I will meditate on your precepts
and fix my eyes on your ways.
16 I will delight in your statutes;
I will not forget your word.
Gimel
17 Deal bountifully with your servant,
that I may live and keep your word.
18 Open my eyes, that I may behold
wondrous things out of your law.

David did not think of them as burdensome. Elsewhere David contends that he delights in the law.

Do you think then, that the law could be a delight for those that keep the commandments, yet are a burdon for those who are enemies of the law and rebelliously break it?

Jesus put it this way, Mathew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Those who rail against Christ also see His commandments as a burden.

Agreed.
If someone sees commandments as burdens, they haven't really come to understand that they're for our own good. I used to spend a whole lesson telling kids this idea since they never think of this. They also used to like how Jesus' two commandments cover all the rest. I'd get those "oooooh"s that I so loved.

But, yes, just following a bunch of rules with no love behind them is burdensome.
That's why the Mosaic covenant had to be imporoved --- and God planned this from the beginning.

God revealed Himself in stages.

Thanks for fixing what I had stated: that commandments in the O.T. were burdensome.
NOT FOR EVERYONE!

 

[GodsGrace]

The law of the Lord.

The Royal law of love. God is love. His Commandments are about love; Loving God and loving our neighbor.

The Lord that Abraham was in covenant with, is the same Lord we are in covenant with.

The same Lord who grafts us into that Covenant, and writes His laws on our heart and in our mind.

The same Lord that was the source (Root) for Abraham Is the same Lord who is our Root.

• Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith.

For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
Romans 11:13-22



JLB

If it's the same Lord/LORD,,,,,
then, of course, the commandments have always been in force,
like I've been saying.

 

[JLB]

If it's the same Lord/LORD,,,,,
then, of course, the commandments have always been in force,
like I've been saying.

Which commandments?

The law of Moses had many commandments that are no longer applicable today.


That’s the discussion.


The law of Moses was abolished because it was fulfilled.


For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. Hebrews 7:12



JLB

 

[JLB]

it is not abolished - it is to be establish/observed as Jesus and paul said - Romans 3:30-31 - Matthew 5:17-19 - Matthew 13:52 - Matthew 5:19

Do you believe Christians should follow the teachings of Judaism?




JLB

 

[JLB]

That is the answer to the thread.
The law was abolished because the law was fulfilled.

Amen!


Post #30 —

It was abolished because it was fulfilled.


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18


Scripture Keys:


The first thing we need to understand is, Jesus said He came to fulfill the law.

• the I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Once we establish that Jesus fulfilled the law, then we can see the next verse for what it means.

• one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Jesus said nothing would pass from the law until it’s fulfilled.


Paul says it this way —


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19

• What purpose then does the law serve?
• It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come...

There’s that word “until” again.


By saying “until”, the Holy Spirit is indicating the law was temporary.


The law was added, until the Seed should come.

The reason He came was to fulfill the law.


More scriptures to examine but I wanted to establish this foundational point before moving on.



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Which commandments?

The law of Moses had many commandments that are no longer applicable today.


That’s the discussion.


The law of Moses was abolished because it was fulfilled.


For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. Hebrews 7:12



JLB

Let's put it this way.....

You walk up to a man in the street.
You ask him:
WHAT ARE THE COMMANDMENTS?
What do you think he'll reply.

You ask him:
WHAT ARE HIS COMMANDMENTS?
What do you think he'll reply.

The O.P. asks this:
WAS THE LAW FULFILLED
OR ABOLISHED

We've been discussing what the commandments are for quite a few pages now.

 

[GodsGrace]

Amen!


Post #30 —

It was abolished because it was fulfilled.


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18


Scripture Keys:


The first thing we need to understand is, Jesus said He came to fulfill the law.

• the I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Once we establish that Jesus fulfilled the law, then we can see the next verse for what it means.

• one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Jesus said nothing would pass from the law until it’s fulfilled.


Paul says it this way —


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19

• What purpose then does the law serve?
• It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come...

There’s that word “until” again.


By saying “until”, the Holy Spirit is indicating the law was temporary.


The law was added, until the Seed should come.

The reason He came was to fulfill the law.


More scriptures to examine but I wanted to establish this foundational point before moving on.



JLB

Matthew 5:18 says ACCOMPLISHED.
Not fulfilled.

 

[JLB]

The O.P. asks this:
WAS THE LAW FULFILLED
OR ABOLISHED

The Answer:

The law of Moses was abolished because it was fulfilled.


See Jethro’s definition of abolished.


Set aside; made to be obsolete.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Matthew 5:18 says ACCOMPLISHED.
Not fulfilled.

The Op says abolished or fulfilled.


Because the law accomplished its purpose, it was abolished.





JLB

 

[stovebolts]

I stated this repeatedly only to be ignored.

That's too bad. Hopefully they will learn the fundementals when discussing the Law.

The Law of Moses is found in Deuteronomy. If we're talking about God's Law in relationship to Israel and the Sinai Covenant, those are found in Exodus, Laviticus and portions of Deuteronomy.

I wish I knew God's Laws well enough to parse all of Moses Laws from God's Laws. But as it sits, I don't know all 613 let alone how to live them out.

 

[JLB]

That's too bad. Hopefully they will learn the fundementals when discussing the Law.

The Law of Moses is found in Deuteronomy. If we're talking about God's Law in relationship to Israel and the Sinai Covenant, those are found in Exodus, Laviticus and portions of Deuteronomy.

I wish I knew God's Laws well enough to parse all of Moses Laws from God's Laws. But as it sits, I don't know all 613 let alone how to live them out.

Amen. Which makes me so thankful I have a Savior who is also my Teacher, who dwells within me to lead me and guide in this life.


JLB

 

[WIP]

Just a slight correction for clarity.
There is a difference between God's Laws and the Laws of Moses.
For instance, God wrote the 10 commandments. These are God's Laws to the Israelites. They are not the Laws of Moses.
The Laws of Moses are only found in Deuteronomy scattered in with the Laws of God. Take divorce for instance. The law of Moses permitted divorce.

Mathew 19:8 ESV.
He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

Please reference Deuteronomy 24 for the Law of Moses concerning divorce.

My point is this. When talking about the Law, it is not accurate to interchange God's Laws as Moses Laws. The 10 commandments are God's Laws, not Laws of Moses.

Does this open up a potential can of worms? What I got out of this is that Moses is guilty of doing what Jesus was addressing with the Pharisees. Can you clarify?

 

[Drew]

While very true, the law can not do this in the person who is divorced from sinful flesh (divorced by reason of death of the flesh) and now married to Christ. This is explained in Romans 7:1-6.

5For when we were in the realm of the flesh, a the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us (the flesh), we have been released from the law (to make us sin) so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. - Romans 7:5-6

This 'new way' of the Spirit leads us into an upholding of the law (minus the ceremonial aspects of it, of course, as Hebrews explains).

"31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." - Romans 3:31

Through the Spirit we keep the very law that, ironically, once caused us to not keep it when we were still 'married' to sinful flesh.

Hi, I do not see things the same way. I agree that, in Romans 7, Paul says the law arouses sin in someone who is still "in the flesh". But, by itself, that is not enough to conclude that a person who is "in the Spirit" should then continue to follow the Law. I think there is a strong Biblical case that the entire Law of Moses has been set aside.
As for Romans 3:31, I believe that, given the broader Biblical picture, Paul is really saying that the Law is established / upheld in the sense that its right and proper role in God's overall plan is affirmed - it is not being cast aside or "nullified" in the sense that it was a mistake to give it in the first place. However, it can now be retired.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Answer:

The law of Moses was abolished because it was fulfilled.


See Jethro’s definition of abolished.


Set aside; made to be obsolete.


JLB

So all of the Law of Moses has been set aside?

Then those who say we are not required to follow the 10 commandments are right?
The 10 commandments ARE PART of the Law of Moses.

Rather confusing, isn't it?

How do YOU explain this conundrum?

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi, I do not see things the same way. I agree that, in Romans 7, Paul says the law arouses sin in someone who is still "in the flesh". But, by itself, that is not enough to conclude that a person who is "in the Spirit" should then continue to follow the Law. I think there is a strong Biblical case that the entire Law of Moses has been set aside.
As for Romans 3:31, I believe that, given the broader Biblical picture, Paul is really saying that the Law is established / upheld in the sense that its right and proper role in God's overall plan is affirmed - it is not being cast aside or "nullified" in the sense that it was a mistake to give it in the first place. However, it can now be retired.

Drew,,,
I sure do hope JLB sees your post.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Hi, I do not see things the same way. I agree that, in Romans 7, Paul says the law arouses sin in someone who is still "in the flesh". But, by itself, that is not enough to conclude that a person who is "in the Spirit" should then continue to follow the Law.

What do you mean by 'follow the law'? Simply keep it?
Whether by the letter of the law, or through the Spirit, the law is, nonetheless, still being 'kept'. It's just that you're actually going to be able to do it successfully if you do it through the Spirit.

I think there is a strong Biblical case that the entire Law of Moses has been set aside.

I showed where the NT teaches literal keeping of various laws in the law of Moses. And I showed where it teaches where it is not necessary to literally keep various laws in the law of Moses.

It's a mistake to look at the law of Moses in an 'either/or', 'black or white' way when it comes to what we do in regard to the question of whether we obey the law of Moses or not in this New Covenant. Some things still require literal fulfillment, other things don't. The reason behind that decision is what helps us understand what is literally kept and what does not have to be literally kept.