We are NOT in the End Times

[MarkT]

In each case the commentator adopt the only possible understanding.

"How long, O simple ones will you love being simple?" You don't use the O.T. to understand Jesus. You use Jesus to understand the O.T. Christ is the light by whom we see. You can not see because you hate the light. Forget the commentators. They are waterless springs. Let light enter your heart.

The passage in question has nothing to do with Jeremiah, or Israel, or being faithless, or being a wife, etc. Jesus didn't say so. Don't add to his words. Don't make stuff up.

 

[reba]

Complete futurism has such a subtle way of devaluing the Cross.

 

[jasoncran]

"How long, O simple ones will you love being simple?" You don't use the O.T. to understand Jesus. You use Jesus to understand the O.T. Christ is the light by whom we see. You can not see because you hate the light. Forget the commentators. They are waterless springs. Let light enter your heart.

The passage in question has nothing to do with Jeremiah, or Israel, or being faithless, or being a wife, etc. Jesus didn't say so. Don't add to his words. Don't make stuff up.

so what did jesus tell the pharisees when he said search the scriptures and think ye have life ? or if ye knew moses ye would have known me for moses spoke of me.

you are half right. when i was a babe in christ i read genesis first then the rest of the bible after i hit ezekiel. God lead me to the do this. jesus is all over the old testament.

 

[reba]

"How long, O simple ones will you love being simple?" You don't use the O.T. to understand Jesus. You use Jesus to understand the O.T. Christ is the light by whom we see. You can not see because you hate the light. Forget the commentators. They are waterless springs. Let light enter your heart.

The passage in question has nothing to do with Jeremiah, or Israel, or being faithless, or being a wife, etc. Jesus didn't say so. Don't add to his words. Don't make stuff up.

Yet you would have me accept your commentary?

 

[MarkT]

Yet you would have me accept your commentary?

I don't write commentaries. But no. Let us reason together. My thoughts are not written in stone. I am not dogmatic.

Follow my reasoning and tell me what you think. Mt. 12:38-42

I'm going to write in short form. Might seem disjointed. From what Jesus said about adultery, lust and divorce, it follows he was talking about the sin of adultery. But unfaithful can be understood. Imagery he did use - How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings. But he did not use imagery re. Mt. 12. Imagery is used if it serves a purpose. If there is no reason to use imagery, then it is not used. Teacher we wish to see a sign from you. A sign. They wanted to see something. Jesus answered. What would they see? The sign of Jonah? But no. Jesus only appeared to his disciples. The Jews who crucified him didn't see him again. So that rules out the Jews. Besides they were given many signs and Jesus said no sign except the sign of Jonah. Certainly they were unfaithful. Jesus said he would be three days and three nights in the earth. We believe that without seeing. Therefore we have received the sign in our hearts. My understanding is a little more spiritual than most. So Jesus spoke of a future generation. Perhaps our own. Then the preaching of Jonah, the men of Nineveh. Something greater than Jonah is here. Yes. The Word of God. And wisdom. He said something greater than Soloman is here. Yes. Wisdom in the flesh. Wouldn't Jesus know what Jeremiah said concerning Israel and adultery? Yes. But it doesn't change anything. Israel was unfaithful. But Jesus was the hen gathering her children. No imagery is used re. Mt. 12 but unfaithful is a given. But they saw him. They were given signs and they did not believe. Mr. 8:38 He called the generation sinful and adulterous. Was this the same event? Is Mt. a better telling? But if he called that generation sinful and adulterous, then was he speaking of a future generation in Mt.? Mt. is clearly a future generation. And the generation that saw him was sinful and adulterous. The first and the last generation. One was the first. One is the last. The basis for judgment? No. They didn't see. They were not given the sign. We were given the sign. This generation.

 

[MarkT]

so what did jesus tell the pharisees when he said search the scriptures and think ye have life ? or if ye knew moses ye would have known me for moses spoke of me.

you are half right. when i was a babe in christ i read genesis first then the rest of the bible after i hit ezekiel. God lead me to the do this. jesus is all over the old testament.

Yeah. So what's the problem? That's what they did. They did search the scriptures. But God didn't give them any understanding. To them the scriptures were just line after line after line Is. 28:13 Their fear of God, a commandment of men learned by rote. Is. 29:13

I read up to Proverbs I think. Then I read the New Testament. I still haven't read all of the prophets, and some things are hard to understand. But mostly I do. And yes. Jesus was the LORD in the O.T.

 

[Sinthesis]

I read up to Proverbs I think. Then I read the New Testament. I still haven't read all of the prophets, and some things are hard to understand. But mostly I do. And yes. Jesus was the LORD in the O.T.

So you admit you have yet to read the entire bible, yet you feel compelled to make the following assertion about your fellow Christians?

Matthew Henry is a false teacher and a blind guide. I`ll say that to his face. And he`s made you twice the child of hell as he is.

Every scholar that I have ever seen or heard is a liar and a blind guide. Every scholar, every teacher that has gone through the system, through a seminary, or any kind of formal school is false. That`s the depth of the tribulation. That`s why this can not continue. Or no human being will be saved.

 

[MarkT]

So you admit you have yet to read the entire bible, yet you feel compelled to make the following assertion about your fellow Christians?

I'm just guessing I know 95%, whereas the scholars know nothing. Even if I only knew 1%, it would be better than nothing.

And what I said is true Sinthesis. They are of the devil. How can I call them Christians when they are devils?

 

[jasoncran]

Yeah. So what's the problem? That's what they did. They did search the scriptures. But God didn't give them any understanding. To them the scriptures were just line after line after line Is. 28:13 Their fear of God, a commandment of men learned by rote. Is. 29:13

I read up to Proverbs I think. Then I read the New Testament. I still haven't read all of the prophets, and some things are hard to understand. But mostly I do. And yes. Jesus was the LORD in the O.T.

simple tell me what per ot judiasm what the menorah means and what happened during the maccebean seige and the channukah miracle. then look at the aod from that and it will change what the entire chapter 24 of matthew means

and no moses said this

they did teach that the law was to be put inward. you did it by reading it.

when god made the law its a reflecton of himself.its easy to see that.theres much you dont know about ancient jews that most christians never bother to ponder or ask the descendents of them.

spend sometime at least going to a messianic sight and listen to what they saw about the torah. its far more then just memorasation for that is only a part of it.

they also when they do their feasts and did them in also reminded themselves and pondered things of god.man this a whole nother topic.

i have spent hours over the phone with stovebolts on these matters. god lead me to look at the jewish way of thinking once again and jeff pushed me in the right direction.

 

[MarkT]

simple tell me what per ot judiasm what the menorah means and what happened during the maccebean seige and the channukah miracle. then look at the aod from that and it will change what the entire chapter 24 of matthew means

and no moses said this

they did teach that the law was to be put inward. you did it by reading it.

when god made the law its a reflecton of himself.its easy to see that.theres much you dont know about ancient jews that most christians never bother to ponder or ask the descendents of them.

spend sometime at least going to a messianic sight and listen to what they saw about the torah. its far more then just memorasation for that is only a part of it.

they also when they do their feasts and did them in also reminded themselves and pondered things of god.man this a whole nother topic.

i have spent hours over the phone with stovebolts on these matters. god lead me to look at the jewish way of thinking once again and jeff pushed me in the right direction.

If you have something to say then say it. What does the menorah mean? What happened during the maccebean seige and the channukah miracle? What's an aod? How does it change the meaning of Mt. 24 and why can't you just read the Bible without looking for some hidden meanings?

 

[reba]

I don't write commentaries. But no. Let us reason together. My thoughts are not written in stone. I am not dogmatic.

Follow my reasoning and tell me what you think. Mt. 12:38-42

I'm going to write in short form. Might seem disjointed. From what Jesus said about adultery, lust and divorce, it follows he was talking about the sin of adultery. But unfaithful can be understood. Imagery he did use - How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings. But he did not use imagery re. Mt. 12. Imagery is used if it serves a purpose. If there is no reason to use imagery, then it is not used. Teacher we wish to see a sign from you. A sign. They wanted to see something. Jesus answered. What would they see? The sign of Jonah? But no. Jesus only appeared to his disciples. The Jews who crucified him didn't see him again. So that rules out the Jews. Besides they were given many signs and Jesus said no sign except the sign of Jonah. Certainly they were unfaithful. Jesus said he would be three days and three nights in the earth. We believe that without seeing. Therefore we have received the sign in our hearts. My understanding is a little more spiritual than most. So Jesus spoke of a future generation. Perhaps our own. Then the preaching of Jonah, the men of Nineveh. Something greater than Jonah is here. Yes. The Word of God. And wisdom. He said something greater than Soloman is here. Yes. Wisdom in the flesh. Wouldn't Jesus know what Jeremiah said concerning Israel and adultery? Yes. But it doesn't change anything. Israel was unfaithful. But Jesus was the hen gathering her children. No imagery is used re. Mt. 12 but unfaithful is a given. But they saw him. They were given signs and they did not believe. Mr. 8:38 He called the generation sinful and adulterous. Was this the same event? Is Mt. a better telling? But if he called that generation sinful and adulterous, then was he speaking of a future generation in Mt.? Mt. is clearly a future generation. And the generation that saw him was sinful and adulterous. The first and the last generation. One was the first. One is the last. The basis for judgment? No. They didn't see. They were not given the sign. We were given the sign. This generation.

Underlining mine

Do you write only short disjointed commentaries?

Once again i read your commentary as a devaluation of the Cross.
You really believe you are more spiritual most?
Seems when i read your posts to you other folks are looking for hidden meanings and you find imagery.

 

[MarkT]

Underlining mine

Do you write only short disjointed commentaries?

Once again i read your commentary as a devaluation of the Cross.
You really believe you are more spiritual most?
Seems when i read your posts to you other folks are looking for hidden meanings and you find imagery.

Christ died for the forgiveness of sin. Nothing I wrote devalues that. And I don't make up stories, which is what I meant when I said I don't write commentaries. However, if you prefer your stories to the truth, then perhaps you see what I wrote as a threat to your delusion.

In any case you're a hypocrite. You tell people not to make personal attacks and then you make personal attacks.

 

[reba]

Mark i do not believe my statements or questions to you to be personal attacks.

I am sorry that i have offended you. Part of what happens in forums is learning what the other guy means with his use of words.... I simply view our posts as commentaries unless they are, only a quote of a passage.

I have offended you, for which i am sorry, i am a moderator i will with draw form posting in this thread.

 

[MarkT]

Mark i do not believe my statements or questions to you to be personal attacks.

I am sorry that i have offended you. Part of what happens in forums is learning what the other guy means with his use of words.... I simply view our posts as commentaries unless they are, only a quote of a passage.

I have offended you, for which i am sorry, i am a moderator i will with draw form posting in this thread.

I'm sorry too Reba. Please forgive my outburst. I think I'll take a few days off to recharge my batteries.

 

[jasoncran]

If you have something to say then say it. What does the menorah mean? What happened during the maccebean seige and the channukah miracle? What's an aod? How does it change the meaning of Mt. 24 and why can't you just read the Bible without looking for some hidden meanings?

read daniel and its speaks of why the maccabees had to happen. stormcrow posted.

hidden meanings? really when lord said when ye see the aod spoken of by daniel then knoweth that they redemption draweth nigh.

the jews then knew exactly what too look for. antiochus ephineses forced judiasm to a halt, he killed babies that were circumised and hung them from the mothers neck and made them walk around town like that. he took the temple and defiled with a pig offerring to zeus which he built. he also polluted the cruse oil for the menorah

when the maccabean revolution came in and also cleansed the temple they also needed to make oil so that the menorah(the perpetual flame was done with this) would be lit

the center candle(called the western candle or today the shummah) only had the oil.it lasted eight days and thus a fast was called and new oil was made for the menorah. thus a talmudic feast was started. its called the feast of dedication and the feast of light. and jesus celebrated it.

the menorah is a typology of man in christ , made in GOD's image.

symbollically the menorah was at the creation event.(long story short on how jews state this) its also found in revalation with the LORD standing in them and also in zechariah 4 and revalation where it talks about the 2 witnesses.

therefore this being a part of what i learned is only the tip of the iceberg of what i know.

when the jews came to cleanse the temple they also found the wicks of the six candles pointing to the western candle. its wick was pointed at the holy of holies.

this should allude to something.. it does, god looking at man(really the messiah as the center candle is a type of christ in symbol form) and man looking at god.

christ came to purge the temple and also cleanse it and also to redeem men.

so when i come to matthew 24 and read history of what happened ., its a repeat of similiar events describe by the maccabeans in that book and also daniel.

thus it cant be a future event as jesus spoke only judgement not restoration.

 

[jasoncran]

aod=abomonation of desolation.

this why a good commentary is needed. im jewish and all i have to do is either by stealth go to them to learn of this or ask family. i usually do the former when i read on chabad .org or get it from stovebolts who has read and listen to the sages via rambam.

 

[Elijah674]

I'm sorry too Reba. Please forgive my outburst. I think I'll take a few days off to recharge my batteries.

Re: We are NOT in the End Times

Originally Posted by reba
Mark i do not believe my statements or questions to you to be personal attacks.

I am sorry that i have offended you. Part of what happens in forums is learning what the other guy means with his use of words.... I simply view our posts as commentaries unless they are, only a quote of a passage.

I have offended you, for which i am sorry, i am a moderator i will with draw form posting in this thread.



I'm sorry too Reba. Please forgive my outburst. I think I'll take a few days off to recharge my batteries.

Elijah here: we LOVE you guys, but just reply to the posts!;) Back to the subject of not being in the end times!??

Dan.12

[1] And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and [[there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:]] (as 'i' see it, this is Matt. 24:21 on's escalation time to the END!) and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
[3] And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
[4] But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Has any knowledge been increased??

+ Hosea 4
[6] My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Gen. 6
[12] And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
[13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
​

Surely the Word END means END in this verse??!!
And INCREASED KNOWLEDGE??

Nah. 1
[9] What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction [shall not rise up the second time].
[10] For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry.




​

 

[MarkT]

read daniel and its speaks of why the maccabees had to happen. stormcrow posted.

hidden meanings? really when lord said when ye see the aod spoken of by daniel then knoweth that they redemption draweth nigh.

the jews then knew exactly what too look for. antiochus ephineses forced judiasm to a halt, he killed babies that were circumised and hung them from the mothers neck and made them walk around town like that. he took the temple and defiled with a pig offerring to zeus which he built. he also polluted the cruse oil for the menorah

when the maccabean revolution came in and also cleansed the temple they also needed to make oil so that the menorah(the perpetual flame was done with this) would be lit

the center candle(called the western candle or today the shummah) only had the oil.it lasted eight days and thus a fast was called and new oil was made for the menorah. thus a talmudic feast was started. its called the feast of dedication and the feast of light. and jesus celebrated it.

the menorah is a typology of man in christ , made in GOD's image.

symbollically the menorah was at the creation event.(long story short on how jews state this) its also found in revalation with the LORD standing in them and also in zechariah 4 and revalation where it talks about the 2 witnesses.

therefore this being a part of what i learned is only the tip of the iceberg of what i know.

when the jews came to cleanse the temple they also found the wicks of the six candles pointing to the western candle. its wick was pointed at the holy of holies.

this should allude to something.. it does, god looking at man(really the messiah as the center candle is a type of christ in symbol form) and man looking at god.

christ came to purge the temple and also cleanse it and also to redeem men.

so when i come to matthew 24 and read history of what happened ., its a repeat of similiar events describe by the maccabeans in that book and also daniel.

thus it cant be a future event as jesus spoke only judgement not restoration.

Judgment is a future event unless you think the judgment has already happened.

Jesus didn't say anything about the menorah, the maccabees, etc.

When someone says 'a' generation, or in this case 'an' evil and adulterous generation, then it is most likely he is talking about another generation. Otherwise you would say 'this' generation. Jesus actually does say 'this' generation, but he is talking about the generation that will arise at the judgment with the men of Nineveh and the queen of the South. That's what makes this teaching a prophecy. And it is an open ended prophecy, consistent with what he said, "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only" Mt. 24:36 However, when we see the men of Nineveh (Iraq) condemning this generation for its evil doings, then we know we are the last generation and the judgment is near.

This whole discussion is proof positive that scholars, the Pharisees and the scholars of today, read the Bible line by line by line. And then they create stories from a single line. Here I've been arguing about the meaning of one line, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign; but no sign shall be giiven it except the sign of the prophet Jonah" and getting nowhere. My fault for not putting the line in context.

Then he said "the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. So shall it be also with this evil generation." In this way we know he is speaking of a last state, the state of the last generation. So he is definitely speaking of the end times. Because he said, 'last'. It means no more after that.

Now I have been talking about the Boomer generation and calling it evil and adulterous. Those who have eyes to see and ears to hear know it is the last.

 

[smaller]

Judgment is a future event unless you think the judgment has already happened.

Jesus didn't say anything about the menorah, the maccabees, etc.

When someone says 'a' generation, or in this case 'an' evil and adulterous generation, then it is most likely he is talking about another generation. Otherwise you would say 'this' generation. Jesus actually does say 'this' generation, but he is talking about the generation that will arise at the judgment with the men of Nineveh and the queen of the South. That's what makes this teaching a prophecy.

Jesus already 'quite clearly' told us 'who' that 'generation' IS.

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 12:34
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Luke 3:
Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Now, if you say 'people' are these things, I can only shake my head in wonder at how slow some are to read and to see it. Nothing personal.

Isaiah 27:1
In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Revelation 20:
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Those were the captors of Israel of old, unseen. The 'sheep' just could not hear the fact of it. The sheep still have trouble with hearing this matter.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Hitch]

When the question is;

"Do 2 and 2 add up to four?"

And the response is "orange".

That naturally limits the number of folks willing to take you seriously.