We are NOT in the End Times

[reba]

I'm just happening through on this Saturday afternoon when I should be outside working, lol...

I think this is considered an anti-christ reference in Daniel:

"...when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people. 25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power." (Daniel 8:23-25 NIV1984)

Are you comfortable putting words into God's mouth, so to speak? I agree the passage is considered such,BY those looking for an antichrist, but God doesn't say so.. The only Scriptural references to antichrist are found here:

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

I am sure you have read these in there full context many times. Man has stretched and pulled His Word trying to force it into man's theology.

 

[reba]

Stop the personal attacks

 

[jasoncran]

No. The Jews didn't commit adultery with the Romans. Where do you people get these ideas? From the scholars. HaHa.

Matthew 24, Jesus tells us the buildings of the temple will be thrown down and then he tells us there will be signs that we should be aware of before his coming and the close of the age.

Where does Jesus say anything about the return of Israel?

matthew 16

1The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.

2He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? 4A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed

he called them the adulterous generation.

and here he said why they were to be judged

luke 13

33Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

34O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! 35Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

when they rejected him as king over them, then they did commit adultery as he said im your king when he entered on the donkey. he also said the new way was by the cross and not the ot temple sacrifice. they rejected that and its said in the nt that he that denies the son is an antichrist and also the jews were his and they claimed that. when they went to serve him the old way(which isnt the way anymore ) then they were commiting adultery.

otherwise if you think that modern judiasm is the way then come out and tell me why.

 

[MarkT]

matthew 16


he called them the adulterous generation.

Absolutely not. At that time when they came and asked him to show them a sign from heaven, Jesus told them they knew how to interpret the appearance of the sky but they could not interpret the signs of the times. Then speaking of times, he told them an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign. He did not say they were looking for a sign. It would be kinda redundant to tell them they were looking for a sign after they came to him looking for a sign. Certainly no one would call a group of Pharisees a generation. That's not to say the judgment didn't begin with that generation. Jesus said all the righteous blood of the prophets would come upon 'this' meaning that generation. But what it means it began then. But anyways, Jesus was not speaking in images when he said an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign.

So actually when they approached him and he told them an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign, he was speaking of another generation. He didn't say this generation seeks a sign, which was obviously true. He said an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign, and he referred to the generation as 'it' saying no sign will be give it.

Take it as prophecy.

If you have eyes to see then hear the eternal words of God, true now as they were then. An evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign. Look no further than the boomers.

 

[Hitch]

Absolutely not. At that time when they came and asked him to show them a sign from heaven, Jesus told them they knew how to interpret the appearance of the sky but they could not interpret the signs of the times. Then speaking of times, he told them an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign. He did not say they were looking for a sign. It would be kinda redundant to tell them they were looking for a sign after they came to him looking for a sign. Certainly no one would call a group of Pharisees a generation. That's not to say the judgment didn't begin with that generation. Jesus said all the righteous blood of the prophets would come upon this meaning that generation. But what it means it began then. But anyways, Jesus was not speaking in images when he said an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign.

So actually when they approached him and he told them an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign, he was speaking of another generation. He didn't say this generation seeks a sign, which was obviously true. He said an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign, and he referred to the generation as 'it' saying no sign will be give it.

There are no good reasons to perpetrate such an obvious falsehood. This is the second time Mark has misrepresented what Christ said despite being corrected. This is not a matter of interpretation it is a blatant contradiction of apostolic revelation.


and he referred to the generation as 'it' saying no sign will be give it.


On the contrary Jesus declares a 'sign' will be given and goes on to say what the sign is ,its origin and its interpretation .

Matthew 12:39
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Take it as prophecy.

If you have eyes to see then hear the eternal words of God, true now as they were then. An evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign. Look no further than the boomers.

 

[MarkT]

Don't just look for the obvious. It's obviously true Israel was a faithless wife, played the harlot, committed adultery with other gods. Jeremiah said so.

What is not obvious is Jesus didn't invoked Jeremiah at his teaching when he said, 'an evil and adulterous generation'. The scholars do it. Jesus didn't do it.

 

[MarkT]

The whole world is false because of false teachers. They don't know the prophecies and they don't want anyone else to know. It's because of these false teachers, the scholars, that the end is coming soon. God will not tolerate them any longer.

 

[Hitch]

The whole world is false because of false teachers. They don't know the prophecies and they don't want anyone else to know.

One of the marks or 'tells' of a false teacher is his willingness to alter scripture;


Mark posted;
and he referred to the generation as 'it' saying no sign will be give it.


On the contrary Jesus declares a 'sign' will be given and goes on to say what the sign is ,its origin and its interpretation .

Matthew 12:39
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

 

[MarkT]

One of the marks or 'tells' of a false teacher is his willingness to alter scripture;


Mark posted;
and he referred to the generation as 'it' saying no sign will be give it.


On the contrary Jesus declares a 'sign' will be given and goes on to say what the sign is ,its origin and its interpretation .

Matthew 12:39
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Trying to misdirect?

How do you account for the fact that the generation that saw Jesus were given all kinds of signs, including turning water into wine, feeding 5000, healing the sick, raising the dead? Was Jesus speaking of that generation when he said, "an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign; but no sign shall be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."? No. He was speaking of the last generation.

 

[Hitch]

Trying to misdirect?

How do you account for the fact that the generation that saw Jesus were given all kinds of signs, including turning water into wine, feeding 5000, healing the sick, raising the dead? Was Jesus speaking of that generation when he said, "an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign; but no sign shall be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."? No. He was speaking of the last generation.

Since the resurrection was obviously the greatest of 'signs' the connotation is that ignoring this will cost them greatly,in direct accordance with the magnitude of the 'sign', and will form the primary basis for the judgment against them.

Your willingness to alter not only Scripture but even direct quotes from Jesus Christ have revealed you as unreliable.

 

[MarkT]

Since the resurrection was obviously the greatest of 'signs' the connotation is that ignoring this will cost them greatly,in direct accordance with the magnitude of the 'sign', and will form the primary basis for the judgment against them.

Your willingness to alter not only Scripture but even direct quotes from Jesus Christ have revealed you as unfit.

LOL. Now you're making stuff up. Keep the scholar BS out of this. I'm not interested in your primary basis for judgment BS

Jesus said no sign would be given it, speaking of the evil and adulterous generation, except the sign of the prophet Jonah. Are you dyslexic? Do you understand what no sign means? Don't tell me he was speaking of the generation that saw him and heard him. That generation was given plenty of signs.

And how did I alter scripture? I quoted what he said. Didn't alter anything. The important point was that he referred to the generation as 'it'. You're getting pretty desperate that you have to make false charges.

 

[Hitch]

LOL. Now you're making stuff up. Keep the scholar BS out of this. I'm not interested in your primary basis for judgment BS

Jesus said no sign would be given it, speaking of the evil and adulterous generation, except the sign of the prophet Jonah. Are you dyslexic? Do you understand what no sign means? Don't tell me he was speaking of the generation that saw him and heard him. That generation was given plenty of signs.

And how did I alter scripture? I quoted what he said. Didn't alter anything. The important point was that he referred to the generation as 'it'. You're getting pretty desperate that you have to make false charges.

And how did I alter scripture? I quoted what he said. Didn't alter anything

OK Mark post the Scripture you're quoting.

 

[Hitch]

I cant imagine anyone but Mark having trouble with this passage but just in case;

But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:


Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

12:38-45 Though Christ is always ready to hear and answer holy desires and prayers, yet those who ask amiss, ask and have not. Signs were granted to those who desired them to confirm their faith, as Abraham and Gideon; but denied to those who demanded them to excuse their unbelief. The resurrection of Christ from the dead by his own power, called here the sign of the prophet Jonah, was the great proof of Christ's being the Messiah. As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale, and then came out again alive, thus Christ would be so long in the grave, and then rise again. The Ninevites would shame the Jews for not repenting; the queen of Sheba, for not believing in Christ. And we have no such cares to hinder us, we come not to Christ upon such uncertainties. This parable represents the case of the Jewish church and nation. It is also applicable to all those who hear the word of God, and are in part reformed, but not truly converted. The unclean spirit leaves for a time, but when he returns, he finds Christ is not there to shut him out; the heart is swept by outward reformation, but garnished by preparation to comply with evil suggestions, and the man becomes a more decided enemy of the truth. Every heart is the residence of unclean spirits, except those which are temples of the Holy Ghost, by faith in Christ.

 

[MarkT]

And how did I alter scripture? I quoted what he said. Didn't alter anything

OK Mark post the Scripture you're quoting.

38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, "Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you." 39 But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign; but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. Mt. 12:38-39.

 

[MarkT]

I cant imagine anyone but Mark having trouble with this passage but just in case;

But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:


Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

¸

Matthew Henry is a false teacher and a blind guide. I`ll say that to his face. And he`s made you twice the child of hell as he is.

Every scholar that I have ever seen or heard is a liar and a blind guide. Every scholar, every teacher that has gone through the system, through a seminary, or any kind of formal school is false. That`s the depth of the tribulation. That`s why this can not continue. Or no human being will be saved.

 

[Hitch]

38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, "Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you." 39 But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign; but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. Mt. 12:38-39.

And this is what you posted;

Originally Posted by MarkT
That would be Israel was faithless. Not adulterous. You're mixing up two different things. Adultery is a sin. Faithless means Israel forgot the LORD and did not keep the commandments. Besides that, the 'phrase' is a prophecy. Jesus left it open. He didn't say his generation. He said a generation would seek a sign; an evil and adulterous generation. No sign shall be given it.

You hacked with a shovel as though it were dirt.

Emphasis added.

 

[Hitch]

¸

Matthew Henry is a false teacher and a blind guide. I`ll say that to his face. And he`s made you twice the child of hell as he is.

:toofunny LMBO:toofunny

Every scholar that I have ever seen or heard is a liar and a blind guide

Well you can rest assured no one is going to accuse the Modalist of scholarship.

Every scholar, every teacher that has gone through the system, through a seminary, or any kind of formal school is false. That`s the depth of the tribulation. That`s why this can not continue. Or no human being will be saved.

Actually Mark teachers are a gift to the church, a gift you have failed recognize. I hope you get over it sometime.

 

[MarkT]

Originally Posted by MarkT

38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, "Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you." 39 But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign; but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. Mt. 12:38-39.

And this is what you posted;

Originally Posted by MarkT
That would be Israel was faithless. Not adulterous. You're mixing up two different things. Adultery is a sin. Faithless means Israel forgot the LORD and did not keep the commandments. Besides that, the 'phrase' is a prophecy. Jesus left it open. He didn't say his generation. He said a generation would seek a sign; an evil and adulterous generation. No sign shall be given it.

You hacked with a shovel as though it were dirt.

Really? I think I said 'except the sign of Jonah' in many other places. Maybe I should quote the entire gospel next time to get you to see one word. That that generation would only be given the sign of Jonah was not relevant to my argument. What I said was he didn't say 'his' generation. The point was he said no sign shall be given 'it'. The word ''it' was actually the only word that I should have put in quotes.

Still what does it matter. You can't see.

 

[jasoncran]

Absolutely not. At that time when they came and asked him to show them a sign from heaven, Jesus told them they knew how to interpret the appearance of the sky but they could not interpret the signs of the times. Then speaking of times, he told them an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign. He did not say they were looking for a sign. It would be kinda redundant to tell them they were looking for a sign after they came to him looking for a sign. Certainly no one would call a group of Pharisees a generation. That's not to say the judgment didn't begin with that generation. Jesus said all the righteous blood of the prophets would come upon 'this' meaning that generation. But what it means it began then. But anyways, Jesus was not speaking in images when he said an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign.

So actually when they approached him and he told them an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign, he was speaking of another generation. He didn't say this generation seeks a sign, which was obviously true. He said an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign, and he referred to the generation as 'it' saying no sign will be give it.

Take it as prophecy.

If you have eyes to see then hear the eternal words of God, true now as they were then. An evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign. Look no further than the boomers.

wow, so he wasnt talking to them? they came to seek a sign and that was his response.

with that poor exegesis you can make the bible say what you want. not wise.

i dont and im not a preterist ,just a simple sinner saved by grace who wants to know what the word does say and ajdust to its commands.

im not perfect and i dont pretend to fully have the end times answers but man lets not ingore the rule of basic bible reading. even my pre-tribber pastors and friends that i know would agree with this!

 

[MarkT]

:toofunny LMBO:toofunny Well you can rest assured no one is going to accuse the Modalist of scholarship.Actually Mark teachers are a gift to the church, a gift you have failed recognize. I hope you get over it sometime.

You've got Matthew Henry. I've got Christ.