Bible Study WELCOME TO A DEEP LOOK AT GENESIS

[JohnD]

Please join us in a study "of the beginning". This will be a long study of Genesis no hurry. Feel free to add to the discussion as led.

Okay.

I am a late contributor, but there is no hurry as you said.

The book of Genesis is as only one other book of the Bible... Revelation. For in it's pages are overviews which are explained in more detail throughout scripture. In fact, without a good understanding of all of the rest of scripture, misinterpretations and errors can easily result. For example the skeptic's challenge of Genesis that the order of creation in chapters 1 & 2 contradict one another. Studying the Bible all the way through helps us understand the Hebrew mind set behind each book; each chapter in the general telling of the story followed by the rehashing of the details in greater... uh, well... detail. And that the latter is not necessarily in the chronological order that the former was. To get that order one who understands the Hebrew mind set would consult the previous account (or chapter in this case).

The overviews and the details tend to be prophetic. Prophesy being defined as simply the revelation of God (God's Word) which may speak of the past, the present or to the future. The emphasis being not on the prophet (who is merely a tool in the hand of God the Spirit see 2 Peter 1:20-21), nor on the time frame the text addresses, but the emphasis should be placed on the Word of God and the God who gave this revelation to mankind.

Genesis is a book filled with prophecy (again, past present, future). Genesis 22 for example is extremely prophetic of the crucifixion of our LORD. And the famines under which Joseph presided is prophetic of the great tribulation. Etc.

When I teach (when there's time, anymore) the Bible I teach that the Bible is constructed similarly to a building or a house. Genesis is the foundation and Revelation is the roof. Both contain indications of where the walls of the rooms in the building will be. This is the integrated message system (as Chuck Missler teaches) of the thing, the consistence and you could spend a lifetime following the "chain" in the chain references.

Genesis and Revelation are also mirrors of one another.

God bless all who venture into this most excellent study... just remember to consult the Author (the Holy Spirit) and don upon yourselves the full armor and study with prayer!

 

[Eugene]

In these early chapters of Genesis, I have used the name for God as "Jehovah Elohim" so I thought I would post the meaning of that Name.
Jehovah In the KJV, Jehovah is translated "LORD" in capital letters to distinguish it from Adonai, also translated "Lord." The name Jehovah is derived from the Hebrew verb havah, "to be" or "being". When God wished to make a special revelation of Himself, He used the name Jehovah.

Brother Chopper, will you please expound the emboldened portion of your explanation? Are you suggesting to restrict such use of the word Jehovah to God our Father? Thanks.

 

[jasonc]

the word Jehovah isn't a Hebrew word its a Germanic attempt to say YHWH the Hebrews do say that it means being, but its associated with mercy and grace. names describe character. why would god say that his character is being? its not at all his nature.

 

[TOG]

names describe character. why would god say that his character is being? its not at all his nature.

But that is His nature. He is the one who was, who is, and who forever will be. I've also heard that the name YHWH is used in relation to God making covenants. Whenever God makes a covenant or where it's talking about His faithfulness to His promises and covenants, there YHWH is used. I haven't really studied it to see if that's true, but I read it in some materials I have from a Messianic Jewish group.

The TOG​

 

[jasonc]

But that is His nature. He is the one who was, who is, and who forever will be. I've also heard that the name YHWH is used in relation to God making covenants. Whenever God makes a covenant or where it's talking about His faithfulness to His promises and covenants, there YHWH is used. I haven't really studied it to see if that's true, but I read it in some materials I have from a Messianic Jewish group.

The TOG​

actually, when you do, tell me how the Abrahamic covenant wasn't even given by YHWH but a diety who Abraham knew as God almighty. we call that one el-shaddai. see exodus 6:3

and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them

I would like to see that the vowels of the Name are that known and the source of that. only the Yah is known. so the promises to isreal prior the torah were given under el-shaddai. which means what? the great shepherd and provider. the strong mountain, God almighty. and look then and see how God acted with them.

 

[TOG]

actually, when you do, tell me how the Abrahamic covenant wasn't even given by YHWH but a diety who Abraham knew as God almighty. we call that one el-shaddai. see exodus 6:3

I would like to see that the vowels of the Name are that known and the source of that. only the Yah is known. so the promises to isreal prior the torah were given under el-shaddai. which means what? the great shepherd and provider. the strong mountain, God almighty. and look then and see how God acted with them.[/quote]

Are you saying that El Shaddai and YHWH are not the same?

And it came to be when Abram was ninety-nine years old, that יהוה appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am El Shaddai – walk before Me and be perfect (Gen. 17:1 TS1998)​

YHWH Himself told Abram that He was El Shaddai. Scripture also tells us that Abram knew God's name.

But Abram said to the sovereign of Sedom, “I have lifted my hand to יהוה, the Most High El, the Possessor of the heavens and earth, not to take a thread or a sandal strap or whatever is yours, lest you should say, ‘I have made Abram rich,’ (Gen. 14:22-23 TS1998)​

I believe that Gen. 6:3 means that God had not revealed that side of his nature to Abram, even though he knew the name.

The TOG​

 

[jasonc]

no, I am not but the Name god revealed to moses was that of mercy and grace. to take a name that means mercy and grace and say it means being is what I meant is missing the nature. look at how god dealt with isreal. and why does the psalmist say that god is my salvation and his mercy endureth forever? if that wasn't how god dealt with isreal?

sure Abraham knew that to a degree but god dealt with Abraham differently.

you do realize the el-shaddai=jesus, and also YHWH+=jesus? to try to pin one name as being misses the meanings of how god was going to deal with isreal and did. ie YHWH of Hosts.

Jehovah is a Germanic word. not even used until martin luther's era.

 

[Chopper]

Day 17 5/3/14 Genesis 4:1-16 First Son, First Murder.

The birth of Cain & Abel produces the first family in the history of mankind. One would think that so early in the beginning of life that even though the parents caused the first sin and abandonment from the Garden, that the boys would be very careful to follow the very few requirements that God had for them at that time.

No one really knows the amount of time passed between Adam & Eve being forced out of the Garden to the birth of Cain, the firstborn. Someone from my studies suggested 30 years. Whatever the case, IMO, I have always wondered what life was like for Adam & Eve before the boys were born. My mind goes to the first sacrifice of an animal to cloth the couple. The sacrifice of that animal suggests, first, that God Himself made an atonement for the sin of disobedience in their eating of the forbidden tree. Second, it suggests to me that Cain became aware of a forever standard that YHWH required a sacrifice of an animal for the atonement of their sins as they committed them. The Scriptures do not record any conversation between Adam & God, or Adam to Cain & Abel about sacrifices, although it appears that Abel knew to sacrifice the "firstlings of his flock" which suggests a lamb. Cain, on the other hand, brought an "offering" "fruit of the ground". I wonder if because Cain was the firstborn, if he was a special target of Satan, and somehow convinced Cain to offer something from his garden.

Cain became very angry at himself for giving in to his decision which spilled over to his responses and attitude toward God. It is apparent to me that Adam & Eve had learned an important lesson not to disobey God because I don't see any more disobedience on their part.

Cain appears to me an easy target for Satan to continue his rebellion against Yahweh by causing trouble in Cain's life. Vs. 5-7,
Gen 4:5 "but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell.
Gen 4:6 The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen?
Gen 4:7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."
Describes a very angry Cain.

Although warned and instructed by God prior to his act of murder, points out just how this earthly human could be persuaded by the "evil one" to kill his own brother. The question that often comes up is, "Did Cain go to Paradise when he died? There is no evidence of repentance that I can see. The Scriptures say that murders won't enter the Kingdom of God.

Now we have a very controversial subject as to, what exactly was the "mark on Cain". It is obvious to me that it was visible. There have been many ideas over the years of what it was. The following is from "Gills" Commentary, (used by permission).
"And the LORD put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him"
This sign is thought by the best writers to have been a wild ferocity of aspect that rendered him an object of universal horror and avoidance.(Jamison, Fausset, and Brown). V.15 "and the Lord set a mark upon Cain"; about which there is a variety of sentiments (a): some say it was a horn in his forehead: others, a leprosy in his face; others, a wild ghastly look; others, a shaking and trembling in all his limbs; and others, that there was an earthquake wherever he stepped: and others will have it, that the dog which guarded Abel's flock was given him to accompany him in his travels, by which sign it might be known that he was not to be attacked, or to direct him from taking any dangerous road: some say it was a letter imprinted on his forehead."

The latest opinion came out of "Bob Jones University" some years ago, that said the mark on Cain is the color of his flesh, black. Cain was the father of African black people. They went so far with this interpretation, that they forbade any of their students to marry an African American. They should not be seen on Campus with a black person. Because of the outrage of a lot of people, I think that they have changed their position.

 

[Chopper]

Tomorrows study 5/4/14 will be Genesis 4: 17-26.

 

[TOG]

The latest opinion came out of "Bob Jones University" some years ago, that said the mark on Cain is the color of his flesh, black. Cain was the father of African black people. They went so far with this interpretation, that they forbade any of their students to marry an African American. They should not be seen on Campus with a black person. Because of the outrage of a lot of people, I think that they have changed their position.

They have reversed their policies, but it wasn't just because of the outrage as you say. In 1982, the US Supreme Court ordered them to change their policies. They refused, and donations to the university dropped by 13% the following year (Source). I think financial reasons were probably more responsible for the change. But Bob Jones University wasn't the first to suggest that skin color was the mark of Cain.

In an Eastern Christian (Armenian) Adam-book (5th or 6th century) it is written: “And the Lord was wroth with Cain. . . He beat Cain’s face with hail, which blackened like coal, and thus he remained with a black face".
Source

The same source says that Southern Baptists used the mark of Cain as a justification for slavery and that Mormons claimed the mark was black skin as far back as 1831.

As for my own beliefs on the mark of Cain, I have to admit that I simply don't know. I don't believe that any particular race today bears the mark of Cain. But since the Bible says that anyone who saw Cain would know not to kill him (Gen. 4:15), I think it must have been visible.

The TOG​

 

[jasonc]

the kkk still teaches that crap.

 

[Chopper]

They have reversed their policies, but it wasn't just because of the outrage as you say. In 1982, the US Supreme Court ordered them to change their policies. They refused, and donations to the university dropped by 13% the following year (Source). I think financial reasons were probably more responsible for the change. But Bob Jones University wasn't the first to suggest that skin color was the mark of Cain.



The same source says that Southern Baptists used the mark of Cain as a justification for slavery and that Mormons claimed the mark was black skin as far back as 1831.

As for my own beliefs on the mark of Cain, I have to admit that I simply don't know. I don't believe that any particular race today bears the mark of Cain. But since the Bible says that anyone who saw Cain would know not to kill him (Gen. 4:15), I think it must have been visible.

The TOG​

Thank you so much for that valuable information TOG.

 

[Chopper]

the kkk still teaches that crap.

I didn't know that, thanks.

 

[agua.]

Day 17 5/3/14 Genesis 4:1-16 First Son, First Murder.

The birth of Cain & Abel produces the first family in the history of mankind. One would think that so early in the beginning of life that even though the parents caused the first sin and abandonment from the Garden, that the boys would be very careful to follow the very few requirements that God had for them at that time.

No one really knows the amount of time passed between Adam & Eve being forced out of the Garden to the birth of Cain, the firstborn. Someone from my studies suggested 30 years. Whatever the case, IMO, I have always wondered what life was like for Adam & Eve before the boys were born. My mind goes to the first sacrifice of an animal to cloth the couple. The sacrifice of that animal suggests, first, that God Himself made an atonement for the sin of disobedience in their eating of the forbidden tree. Second, it suggests to me that Cain became aware of a forever standard that YHWH required a sacrifice of an animal for the atonement of their sins as they committed them. The Scriptures do not record any conversation between Adam & God, or Adam to Cain & Abel about sacrifices, although it appears that Abel knew to sacrifice the "firstlings of his flock" which suggests a lamb. Cain, on the other hand, brought an "offering" "fruit of the ground". I wonder if because Cain was the firstborn, if he was a special target of Satan, and somehow convinced Cain to offer something from his garden.

Cain became very angry at himself for giving in to his decision which spilled over to his responses and attitude toward God. It is apparent to me that Adam & Eve had learned an important lesson not to disobey God because I don't see any more disobedience on their part.

Cain appears to me an easy target for Satan to continue his rebellion against Yahweh by causing trouble in Cain's life. Vs. 5-7,
Gen 4:5 "but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell.
Gen 4:6 The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen?
Gen 4:7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."
Describes a very angry Cain.

Although warned and instructed by God prior to his act of murder, points out just how this earthly human could be persuaded by the "evil one" to kill his own brother. The question that often comes up is, "Did Cain go to Paradise when he died? There is no evidence of repentance that I can see. The Scriptures say that murders won't enter the Kingdom of God.

Now we have a very controversial subject as to, what exactly was the "mark on Cain". It is obvious to me that it was visible. There have been many ideas over the years of what it was. The following is from "Gills" Commentary, (used by permission).
"And the LORD put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him"
This sign is thought by the best writers to have been a wild ferocity of aspect that rendered him an object of universal horror and avoidance.(Jamison, Fausset, and Brown). V.15 "and the Lord set a mark upon Cain"; about which there is a variety of sentiments (a): some say it was a horn in his forehead: others, a leprosy in his face; others, a wild ghastly look; others, a shaking and trembling in all his limbs; and others, that there was an earthquake wherever he stepped: and others will have it, that the dog which guarded Abel's flock was given him to accompany him in his travels, by which sign it might be known that he was not to be attacked, or to direct him from taking any dangerous road: some say it was a letter imprinted on his forehead."

The latest opinion came out of "Bob Jones University" some years ago, that said the mark on Cain is the color of his flesh, black. Cain was the father of African black people. They went so far with this interpretation, that they forbade any of their students to marry an African American. They should not be seen on Campus with a black person. Because of the outrage of a lot of people, I think that they have changed their position.

The rejected offering from Cain may have more to do with the intent of Cain's heart than that his offering was fruit/veges. Maybe Cain didn't offer the best of his produce etc. It's interesting that Cain worked the ground as per the curse ( Gen 3:17 etc ) while Abel was the keeper of animals as per the original intention for Adam ( Gen 1:26 ). Anyway I think it was the faithful disposition of Able that made his offering acceptable and vice versa for Cain. ( or were they operating in the sphere of work that their heart desired ? )

Wow there's some whacky ideas around about Cain's mark eh Chop.

 

[Vaccine]

Good point about the intent of Cains heart. Does that reflect what Jesus said in with Matthew 15:8"‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me."?


I did not know that about the kkk abusing those verses to fuel their hate. Whacko!

 

[reba]

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Our Lord is also at the door..
Rev_3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Verse 7 sure reads like an voice of salvation.
Agree @Agua Cains offering was from the cursed ground... The way of the pharisee.... the way of man.. strange fire.... Christ does not ask us to die for Him but to live for Him....
Able was the first martyr .
Yet we read mercy and compassion from God to Cain...

 

[Chopper]

Day 18 5/4/14 Genesis 4:17-26 More Families.

I like what Gill's commentary says about V.17.
And Cain knew his wife,.... Who this woman was is not certain, nor whether it was his first wife or not; whether his sister, or one that descended from Adam by another of his sons, since this was about the one hundred and thirtieth year of the creation. At first indeed Cain could marry no other than his sister; but whether he married Abel's twin sister, or his own twin sister, is disputed; the Jews say (g), that Cain's twin sister was not a beautiful woman, and therefore he said, I will kill my brother and take his wife: on the other hand, the Arabic writers say (h), that Adam would have had Cain married Abel's twin sister, whom they call Awin; and Abel have married Cain's twin sister, whom they call Azron; but Cain would not, because his own sister was the handsomest; and this they take to be the occasion of the quarrel, which issued in the murder of Abel.

I'm sorry but this is all I can post today. I'll try and finish tomorrow.

 

[reba]

Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. Africa is not east of Eden.

Some people will justify anything in their own minds...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

Today's verses 5/4 if any are ready to move on...

Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
Gen 4:18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
Gen 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
Gen 4:20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Gen 4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.
Gen 4:23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
Gen 4:24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Gen 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

 

[reba]

Lets all remember to lift Chopper before the Lord....

 

[TOG]

Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. Africa is not east of Eden.

Continental drift, perhaps?

The TOG​