Bible Study WELCOME TO A DEEP LOOK AT GENESIS

[His_nee (Jeff)]

The fire... In our world today we have long forgotten the importance of fire.. the importance of keeping the fire not letting it go out... feeding the embers....
Fire is used so very often in Scripture....
Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
......

note how many Jesus Followers/ Bible Students point out that being immersed in the holy spirit is a very necessary and good thing,
while being immersed in fire is what happens to the others who are not immersed in the holy spirit ----- >>> as in they are purged or if not so final refined but in point of view the immersed in fire is quite possibly for those who do not follow Jesus, while being immersed in the holy spirit is for those who do follow Jesus(and abide in Him, not just call Him Lord, Lord, but do as He says).

a description from 17 second search online >>>
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100928040525AADOvgL
"This phrase is used in Matthew 3:11 and Luke 3:16.
In the very next verse in each of these passages, it describes what this means. "His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Matthew 3:12, Luke 3:17)
Baptism with fire is to be sent to an eternal hell.
Notice who was being spoken to. In verse Matt. 3:7, you will see this was being addressed to the Pharisees and Sadducees. Here they are called a "“Brood of vipers"! Then John continued and said, "Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"
John warned them to repent and then said ,"He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
Those who John was speaking to were not righteous and this baptism with fire was a warning.
It was not something to be desired as some falsely teach! This is clear if you will read the context.
The word "baptism" comes from the Greek word that means an immersion or an overwhelming.
The baptism of fire would be an immersion in or an overwhelming with fire.
Likewise when Jesus said, "I have a baptism to be baptized with..." he was talking about an overwhelming event. He was speaking of His suffering. He would be overwhelmed with a suffering that we can't imagine! "

 

[reba]

Sometimes your posting are so hard to read/get/understand .... mine are very often loaded in bad grammar and spelling...

 

[Chopper]

yes, per previous, and
from just 4 words from Genesis 22:1
"God did tempt Abraham" 4 examples there <<< "God" Yhwh, Elohim,Abba,Almighty Creator,Nurturer Giver of LIfe,Mighty One,Healer
............................................................................"did" was in process of, had done once, did once period, did for a moment, did for a while
............................................................................."tempt" .. "Yhwh tempts no one", ask, prompted, led aside, urged, persuaded,lured,....
................................................................."Abraham" formerly Abram, like ((Peter,Simon,Petra,Petros,Cephas)) i.e.Names Important, almost never recognized importance/simple meanings in english(thankfully some have been shared on this forum).

nuances, nephews, nieces, sons, daughters, cousins, ... ... ... lord, Lord, master, Master, catholic, Catholic --- capital,Capital, capitol

for instance 'aleph' - the first letter. well known to Yeshua and to Abraham. a letter with no sound. the beginning of the most beautiful language. scholars will study and debate 'aleph' for years and still not agree.

so, yes, we are all missing some great and wonderful nuances - it would take a lifetime to discover a small part of them !

I don't like the word "tempt" in this context. I understand the word "test" Heb. nasah to test, try, prove, is a better translation.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Sometimes your posting are so hard to read/get/understand .... mine are very often loaded in bad grammar and spelling...

if it helps, take only a line or 3 at a time. I don't necessarily go smoothly from one point to another, but change from one to another not even related, due to many factors. (and I'll try to be clear, but when not may be glad to answer queries, Yhwh willing)
also realize, as you learn Hebrew and Yhwh's Way of thinking and speaking through His people in Scripture and history,
you will be confronted with choices whether to accept Yhwh's Way, or stick with man's traditional way that we all were raised in.(practically all of us anyway).
we are all confronted daily, many times a day, with temptations to keep doing things man's way, or to go back to man's way, instead of God's way.

I don't like the word "tempt" in this context. I understand the word "test" Heb. nasah to test, try, prove, is a better translation.

TESTS, yes. we are tested daily, frequently. Yhwh tests us with a positive expectation that we will pass the test! (a positive nuance!)

 

[TOG]

Sometimes your posting are so hard to read/get/understand .... mine are very often loaded in bad grammar and spelling...

Don't you mean "loaded with bad grammar..."?

Gen 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Gen 22:3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
Gen 22:4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.
Gen 22:5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
Gen 22:6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
Gen 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

How may sons did Abraham have? (Hint: The answer is in verse 2).

The TOG​

 

[reba]

yes, per previous, and

............................................................................"

the above are the things i dont understand....
Because you use Hebrew does not affect my understanding .... That actually has no bearing .... I have learned how to grasp most of what jasonc posts...

 

[reba]

Don't you mean "loaded with bad grammar..."?

How may sons did Abraham have? (Hint: The answer is in verse 2).

The TOG​

Amazing isn't it... that was one of the lines that led to this..... Something is telling me we are missing some great nuances ...

I understand we are not exactly the same place in our walks... Yet we are all walking with HIm He is so awesome

 

[TOG]

Sometimes your posting are so hard to read/get/understand .... mine are very often loaded in bad grammar and spelling...

Don't you mean "loaded with bad grammar..."?

Sorry... I just couldn't resist. Oh... I just noticed... The word "posting" should be plural - "postings". Saying "your posting are..." is bad gram... Uh... Why are you looking at me like that?...

The TOG​

 

[Chopper]

Day 45 Saturday 5/31/14 Genesis 22:1-8 The Great Sacrifice.

I'm amused a little because of the statement in V.1, "God tested Abraham", well I guess!! After those two deceptions of Pharaoh, and Abimelech, I would want to test him too. BUT! I can't help but think that there was something in the background going on that is not explained here in Scripture....just a thought.

"God tested Abraham". I don't think Abraham's faith is what is being tested here, but the focus IMO is obedience. Here is a little story about my obedience being tested. In the Winter of 1991 just before Christmas, in Portland, Maine, God spoke to my mind and asked me to walk down Congress Street (Major street) and preach the Gospel OUT LOUD. This was the beginning of hearing the voice of YHWH. Since I wanted to be sure that that was the Lord, I asked for a fleece. Around Christmas, Congress St. is the coldest street in the Country IMO. So I asked for a warm day. Second, I asked to see the sun, don't know why I asked about the sun. The night before the walk, the weather station said, "something strange will happen tomorrow, a southerly influence will be warming the day." In the morning, it was almost 60 degrees with FOG, did I say FOG? You could hardly see. I told my wife, I don't know what to do because we won't see the sun because of the fog. We decided to go anyway, after all, it was a miracle that it was warm, just like I had asked. As soon as we departed from our condo, and walked several hundred yards toward Congress street, my wife said "look up" and there in an opening in the fog was the sun. A few moments later, it was gone. That was good enough for me, God had answered my fleece! We walked down Congress St. I preached out loud the Gospel, climbed up on a monument in the square, and preached the Gospel for a while. Four young men gave their hearts and lives to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. OBEDIENCE to YHWH was confirmed, and I became familiar with how God would communicate to me in the future.

To ask Abraham to kill his son goes against God's moral law IMO which makes this request of God seem so out of place. It may be that Abraham felt that if Isaac died, God would bring him back to life (common thought). Also because of Abraham's statement to the "young men" in V.5 that he and his son will go and worship AND "come again to you".

Abraham's answer to Isaac's question about a lamb for the sacrifice, Abraham's states "God will provide Himself (KJV) a lamb. To me that means two events. ONE: That God will provide a sacrifice, which He did in the case of the ram caught in the thicket. TWO: It is looking forward to His Son's sacrifice for our sins on the Cross.

 

[Chopper]

Tomorrows Study: Day 46 Sunday June 1st 2014 Genesis 22:9-24 The Fear of God Displayed.

 

[reba]

1Sa_15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of ram.

Love that story Chopper that took guts on so many levels..

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Yhwh tests each one of us also. Yhwh 'tested' Abraham "with an expectation of passing" i.e. a positive expectation - I don't recall the history of learning this, but it is totally in line with all of God's Ways, Scripture, and Plans.
He tests us with an expection of success/passing/fulfillment - NOT as if "to see" if we will pass or fail.
Yhwh fully desires us to be complete and abundant life in Christ Jesus, and
Yhwh has made generous complete and full provisions for all of us to have such a live now and eteranlly to boot !

 

[Deborah13]

I have a question.
I think Abraham is being compared to the Father in giving of His only begotten son.
That Isaac can be compared to the Messiah.
But can Ishmael be compared to Adam?

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Ishmael was 'created' not in perfection, but Adam was created Perfect. they compare in contrasting way.

 

[Deborah13]

Ishmael was 'created' not in perfection, but Adam was created Perfect. they compare in contrasting way.

Good point.
I guess I was thinking more along the lines of acting by one's own willful desires. :neutral

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Good point.
I guess I was thinking more along the lines of acting by one's own willful desires. :neutral

likewise good point >>>> even though created perfect, Adam acted willfully when he disobeyed. He didn't have an excuse, and Yhwh Creator did not give him nor allow any excuse.

so too, the disciples often showed a lack of faith in Jesus while with Him, and Jesus chastised them for it often. "have ye so little faith" over and over and over again ! HIS OWN DISCIPLES!
and many of His own disciples "walked away from Him and didn't follow Him any more" when His instruction was too hard for them to do.

same happen all over the world since then, and especially pertinent today, where we live. "acting by one's own willful desires" is contrary to Yhwh's Plan and Instructions and Life and is opposed to everything Yeshua stands for and lives for and gives us provision for.
i.e. it is sin. and to be repented of immediately when realized, whether at the moment, or decades later.

 

[reba]

Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
The Law was bondage.... Hagar the bondwoman ....
In Christ is the promise of the freewoman

 

[Chopper]

1Sa_15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of ram.

Love that story Chopper that took guts on so many levels..

It was nothing that your Dad wouldn't have done. Somehow, I feel connected with him. I can't explain that except my relationship with you somehow spiritually connects your Dad and me. I will be so happy to meet him someday....And thank you for those nice words. I'm reminded, is there anything to hard for the Lord?

 

[Chopper]

likewise good point >>>> even though created perfect, Adam acted willfully when he disobeyed. He didn't have an excuse, and Yhwh Creator did not give him nor allow any excuse.

so too, the disciples often showed a lack of faith in Jesus while with Him, and Jesus chastised them for it often. "have ye so little faith" over and over and over again ! HIS OWN DISCIPLES!
and many of His own disciples "walked away from Him and didn't follow Him any more" when His instruction was too hard for them to do.

same happen all over the world since then, and especially pertinent today, where we live. "acting by one's own willful desires" is contrary to Yhwh's Plan and Instructions and Life and is opposed to everything Yeshua stands for and lives for and gives us provision for.
i.e. it is sin. and to be repented of immediately when realized, whether at the moment, or decades later.

I like what you have posted here, very true. I have a question though, Wasn't Adam innocent? Rather than perfect? It seems to me that if he was perfect, he never would have sinned. Just asking because I could be wrong, it's what I have always felt was the case. Thanks Jeff!

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

I don't know for sure, but I think he was perfect as well as innocent, and
don't know that an imperfection in him allowed the sin, or the sin caused the destruction of perfection.

I can't place it , but I think an angel was once perfect, 'until' sin was found in him.

more awkward by far, is we are told by our savior Jesus that we must be 'PERFECT' because our FATHER in heaven is PERFECT.
it's going to take more than a little elbow grease and hyssop to clean us up !!! ........................................................... (or, of course, blood, to cleanse us and make us white as snow !)