guibox said:
Are you going to also quote the Catholic catechism for this fine discourse of Greek theology? - because it sounds right out of the Dark Ages and definitely not out of the scriptures. Satan is not in 'hell' and there is no 'torment' going on. Tartaros is not Hades and Hades is not Gehenna. The wicked are reserved unto the day of judgment to be punished (2 Peter 2:9) when and only when they are resurrected, not at their physical death (John 5:28,29 Revelation 20:5, 13-15). And they definitely aren't sharing bunk beds with Satan and his minions.
Gui….First, I will say this, While I am not a catholic, at least they have their theology straight when it comes to the doctrine of Hell…Something the SDA church has all wrong….Secondly what you are saying is that Jesus lied in Matt 25:41-46…You are bordering in on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, If you have not done so already…For you are doing what the Pharissses did to Jesus….Thirdly once it is all said and done, those have been born again will have ‘’new’’ bodies, not these old things we have here on earth…Those who have not been born again, there soul will be in torment forever…..
2:pet 2:9…. The Gr. word for “temptations†means “an attack with intent to destroy†and refers to severe divine judgment. The pattern of the plan of God is to rescue the godly before His judgment falls on the wicked. to reserve the unjust. The wicked are kept like prisoners awaiting the sentencing that will send them to their eternal prison (verse 4…For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment ).
The final judgment on the wicked is called the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev. 20:11–15) where all the ungodly of all the ages will be raised, judged finally, and cast into the lake of fire….
John 5:28-29
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Jesus said His hearers should not be amazed at His claim that right now those who believe pass from death into life (v. 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.)
, because in the future there will be a universal physical resurrection at His command. This universal resurrection is clearly taught in (Daniel 12:1-2 12 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.)
. Other passages show that the resurrection to life, “the first resurrection,†will occur in stages (the church at the Rapture, and Tribulation saints at the Lord’s second coming at the end of the Tribulation), and that the resurrection of those who will be condemned will occur at the end of the Millennium (Rev. 20:11-15). John 5:28-29 is one of the few passages in this Gospel which expressly teaches eschatology…..And Guibox, Soul Sleep is another false doctrine…of the SDA church….
Guibox…Doing what you do best..Taking verses out of context…well that will not work with me…..
Boy, I sure would love to see the biblical proof for this. It isn't in 2 Corinthians 5:8 which supports the bodily resurrection of 1 Corinthians 15.
Yes, I should have been more clear here…..Let me explain it a little bit better. I made the mistake of assuming you knew this stuff…..but then again I sould have know better.. So lets take at 2 cor 5:8 in context… With this perspective Paul could be confident (See verse 5:6, 8; and 7:16) and encouraged (see verse 4:1, 16), even in his period of mortality. These verses (5:6-8) recapitulate the theme first discussed in 4:16-18. To be at home in the body means to dwell in “the earthly tent†(5:1), to be outwardly “wasting away†(4:16), to be in a state of mortality away from the immediate presence of the Lord (see 1 Cor. 13:12).
What sustained Paul was the realization that this was a temporary and transitory state (see 2 Cor. 4:18). He focused not on present but on future conditions, not on the seen but the unseen. To live this way is to live by faith, not by sight.
And I'm still wondering how you can explain how 'the spirit goes back to God who gave' it is NEVER used ONLY for the 'righteous man'. You still haven't explained the fact that Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 and Ecclesiastes 12:7 say that it is the 'spirit' of ALL men that goes back to God.
Guibox…I have explained these verses to u and your buddies, but you choose to ignore them…First lets look at what Solomon is saying in context…..
18 ecc 3:18-22 I said in my heart, “Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.†19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. 21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth? 22 So I perceived that nothing is better than that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his heritage. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?
3:18-20. The connection of verses 18-21 with the preceding is not well reflected in most English translations. The phrase as for men means literally, “for the sake of ½ because of men†and is taken by most theologians to refer back to the injustice mentioned in verse 16: “injustice is both for the sake of and because of men.†Thus Solomon affirmed a second purpose for injustice, namely, that by it God shows people that they are like the animals (lit., “they are animals, they with respect to themselvesâ€Â). This does not say that people are nothing more than animals, with no immortal souls. It does suggest that people, like animals, die….. They have a common mortality, as Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 indicates.
Both people and animals come from the same dust of the earth, are animated by the same life breath (see Job 34:14-15; Ps. 104:29), and go to the same place, that is, return to the dust . So Solomon argued that man has no advantage over an animal, for both are transitory….So if anything these verses support and bolster my position….Look at verse 21… Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?...Again here is a good example of the spirit and soul being used interchangeably…
Ecc 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.
12:7. The dust of the body returns to the ground it came from and the breath of life (spirit and “breath†are translations of the same Heb. word rûaḥ which I know you know…) to God who gave it. This obviously alludes to part of the Creation account (Gen. 2:7; man was made from the dust of the ground and was given breath). This makes it evident that Solomon was not referring to the return of individual human spirits to God for judgment. Similar descriptions of death (as a dissolution of the body and the withdrawal of the breath of God) are referred to in Job 34:14-15 and Psalm 104:29-30 A comparison of these passages with Ecclesiastes 12:7 makes it clear that the description of the return of the breath of life given here does not contradict 3:20. There Solomon, writing about the common destiny of people and animals, had denied the possibility of demonstrating a difference in the disposition of their life breaths, that is, whether a human’s breath went upward to God and whether an animal’s went down to the earth.
So tell me, jg...are you promoting universalism? Because if you see both Stephen's and Christ's 'spirit that is given to God' as their immortal souls, you must say that both the righteous and wicked are going to heaven for this is what it says happens to the 'spirit'. you must also explain how in the world Christ's soul went to heaven when He was in the grave, resurrected and THEN 'ascended to the Father'. You also ignore that the Bible clarifies what it means to 'give up the spirit'. In Jesus' case the scriptures says 'And Jesus breathed His last'. In Stephen's case it says 'And Stephen fell asleep'.
Brushing aside this verse to stick to you guns doesn't help your case at all except in your own mind.
Promoting universism…LOL….ok….As I mentioned before but is worth mentioning again.. ...I could not think of a single group of folks who hold to the anniahalist position that was NOT a cult....Every sect that Holds to this position is a cult....The JW=CULT, SDA = CULT, UR FOLK=CULT, The Christadelphians = CULT....So yes the reader who is lurking needs to read and understand that this cultic theology is a tool of the dragon Satan himself....By the way…You are an SDA correct?...... lol
Again, your convulted logic and misinterpretation of what the 'soul' and 'spirit' is in the Bible creates complete contradictions that you cannot explain and simply ignore.
Guibox
Again...i mean this sincerly...I Pray that one day you will be born again and u will not be asking for a sip of water....You see, by your logic since you are realy is a monostic creature it is not possible to be born again...You see when one is born again the ''Spirit'' OF God indwells the person..When this happens we are no longer a dichotomy, but a trichotomy....Although some will say that we become a dichotomy and our spirit is awakened...Either way, there is scriptual support for both the Dichotomy and the Trichotomy....But there is none for the monism that you hold to....You see, you have no choice but to believe in monism , because of your false belief in annihalism...For you to believe in a dual or tri would mean you have to accept the the soul/spirit is seperate from the body...This is how I know you are not born again....
Lets take this one step further....If a person is demon possessed by your interpretation this person is ''one'' with the demon...So what happens when a person is freed from the demon possession?.... or do you not believe in demon possesion either ....?????
And at the rate you are ignoring the inconsistencies you've created and ignored and can't explain the clear biblical evidence both linguistically and contextually that man is a wholistic being and is given immortality at the resurrection and not at his physical death, then it looks like this ignoring will go into serious effect soon enough.
Quite the opposite. I have proven along with many others that we are not a monostic being....If you really had the guts and the knowledge you think you do, you have taken up my offer to debate this false doctrine of yours in the debate forum, instead you choose this very public forum so u can hide....Well, this is cool too... as drew said, perhaps more folk will read it....
I will leave you with this parting verse....of an actual account......
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
