Yes or no? Do you want us to know? I would like to learn and value your opinion and would like for a TEACHING instead of some bogus answer. I want to know. show me how it is not a first class conditional clause, please. If I am wrong, I WANT to know.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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What does 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 mean?
- Thread starter FreeGrace
- Start date
The Spirit can be broken? What verse is that?
Ok, since you don't believe that we are "face to face with the Lord" when we die. What about when they "wake up". Will they NOT know it?....future! And really, they are never without conscience, They died, and instantly they were face to face with their Lord.
YES, they knew that yesterday, today and forever.
And once again, is it not "finished" permanently? Yesterday,today and tomorrow?
Butch5
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- Jul 16, 2012
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There is this thing called context. When an author makes a statement within a certain context and one removes the statement from that context and applies it to a different context, it's a fallacy. The passage is about the sheep, it starts,
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. (Joh 10:1 KJV)
Butch5
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- Jul 16, 2012
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A seal can be broken that has been shown.
Butch5
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Your opinion opposes Scripture. Man is dust as the Scriptures say, he is not a spirit.
Butch5
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That you haven't denied that it's condition answers the question.
- Thread starter
- #188
So you're basically saying that the Holy Spirit can be broken!!??? Where do you get such ideas?
- Thread starter
- #189
If man is not a spirit, why does Heb 4:12 DIVIDE the soul and spirit? Kinda silly talk, if they don't exist.
Basic question for you: does man have a soul or not? From your posts, it seems you don't think so. That would place man on the SAME LEVEL as animals.
- Thread starter
- #190
Such a comment demonstrates a gross misunderstanding of man, who is body and soul.
Butch5
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Can we stop playing games and actually deal with the texts. A seal can be removed. The Holy Spirit can be removed. We have evidence from Scripture that shows seals can be broken and we have evidence frim Scripture that showe the Holy Spirit can be removed. Can you guys deal with the texts?
Butch5
Member
- Jul 16, 2012
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Can we stop playing games and actually deal with the texts. A seal can be removed. The Holy Spirit can be removed. We have evidence from Scripture that shows seals can be broken and we have evidence frim Scripture that showe the Holy Spirit can be removed. Can you guys deal with the texts?
Butch5
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I wish you guys would address the text and stop arguing from your theology.
Man is a soul which consists of a body and the breat/spirit of God. That info can be found in Gen. 2:7. There is no Scripture that says man is a spirit. There is Scripture that says mam is dust.
Butch5
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If there's a gross misunderstanding it's not on my part. Scripture clearly states that man is dust and nowhere states that man is a spirit.
chessman
Member
- Feb 5, 2013
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A seal can be:
depending on the context.
Or a seal can be:
Or a seal can be:
The ancient seal was a stamp or engraving set in stone, metal or some hard substance like crystal. It was usually a symbol or a figure that was used to make an impression on clay or wax, or some other soft substance.
It was usually attached to an object like a possession or a document, in order to give it authenticity, ownership or authority. It was used often in the ancient world, especially in Egypt, Babylonia and Assyria and surrounding nations including Israel.
"Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm." - Song of Solomon 8:6
In the case of this verse, however, " who also sealed us and gave the down payment of the Spirit in our hearts", Paul's point is that The Spirit (which I cannot upload a picture of) is the seal and is none other than God (The Holy Spirit) and is quite literally placed in the hearts of believers specifically for the stated purpose of "confidence" and "comfort" knowing that it's a "down payment" of things yet promised by God (while still being a confidence in the present tense as well).
You never answered my question. How can a "seal" that can be broken provide any comfort and/or confidence? How can God's promises (any of them) be broken? If you think context is important, then be consistent and exegete the verse within the context of confidence and comfort and God's promises. It might actually change your mind, though so be careful.
- Thread starter
- #196
We have been.
2 entirely different things. The Holy Spirit is NOT an inanimate object, like a seal that is designed to be broken. Further, please show from the NT where the Holy Spirit can be removed. Most OT believers never had the Holy Spirit, so please don't go to David's prayer.
Please provide any NT text that tells us that the Holy Spirit can be removed. You've made statements without any evidence.
- Thread starter
- #197
Our argument is directly from Scripture.
Why does Heb 4:12 distinguish between soul and spirit? Please answer.
Further, here are some numbers that might interest you.
"soul" found 432 times in KJV, 263 times in NASB, and 125 times in NIV.
"spirit" found 457 times in KJV, 519 times in NASB and 477 times in NIV.
You have no support from Scripture for your view.
- Thread starter
- #198
Please research these few verses on this subject:
Job 32:8, Prov 18:4, 20:27, 2Zec 12:2, Acts 18:25 and 1 Cor 2:11 in the NASB. Very clear. Man is a spirit. The Bible says so.
- Dec 11, 2010
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I would like to ask that we slow down a bit and take a breath. As I read through this thread, I'm hearing both sides arguing with (paraphrased) "My argument comes directly from scripture and your argument is flawed." If we are just going to repeat this statement back and forth, it might be best to close the thread now. Let's be cordial and respectful please.
Butch5
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A seal can be:
depending on the context.
Or a seal can be:
Or a seal can be:
Signet Cylinder of Sennacherib(Original is in British Museum)
The ancient seal was a stamp or engraving set in stone, metal or some hard substance like crystal. It was usually a symbol or a figure that was used to make an impression on clay or wax, or some other soft substance.
It was usually attached to an object like a possession or a document, in order to give it authenticity, ownership or authority. It was used often in the ancient world, especially in Egypt, Babylonia and Assyria and surrounding nations including Israel.
"Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm." - Song of Solomon 8:6
In the case of this verse, however, " who also sealed us and gave the down payment of the Spirit in our hearts", Paul's point is that The Spirit (which I cannot upload a picture of) is the seal and is none other than God (The Holy Spirit) and is quite literally placed in the hearts of believers specifically for the stated purpose of "confidence" and "comfort" knowing that it's a "down payment" of things yet promised by God (while still being a confidence in the present tense as well).
You never answered my question. How can a "seal" that can be broken provide any comfort and/or confidence? How can God's promises (any of them) be broken? If you think context is important, then be consistent and exegete the verse within the context of confidence and comfort and God's promises. It might actually change your mind, though so be careful.
Chessman,
Isn't this determining whether the seal can be broken based on what you believe confidence means? That's what it seems like to me. How is that logical?
It seems to me that you're conclusion is based on what you already believe rather than the text. The text shows that a seal can be broken, why question it?
However, to answer your question, it's easy, God's promises are to those who believe not those who reject Him. If one believes they can be confident if they don't then they have no confidence. I've already touch on this issue in numerous threads, what God will do is not the issue, it's what man does.