Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

What does it mean to be "In Christ?"

The Bible is a spiritual book. Adam was the spiritual father of humanity. I like to see him as the representative of the human race, "Therefore as the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation" Romans 5:18. We are all related to Adam. We have his blood coursing through our veins and have inherited his sinful nature.

When we trust in Christ as our savior we are born again and have a new nature, 1 Peter 1:23. Unfortunately, the old Adamic nature does not die, Romans 8:23, but he is sub-dued by the Holy Spirit.

Eating the flesh of Jesus and drinking his blood is symbolic. We are not cannibals.

When we trust in Christ as our savior God spiritually places us in Christ. He only sees us in Christ. Because he spiritually sees us in Christ, he gives us his Holy Spirit.
So was I saying something you did not agree with?
 
In (“by”; “in union with”; “with”; etc.) Christ

The NT word most often translated “in” (ἐν) can also mean “with,” “by means of,” “through,” “aided by,” “in union with,” “under the control or influence of,” etc.

Daniel Wallace
in his Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics says with respect to the preposition en that it is "the workhorse of prepositions in the NT, occurring more frequently and in more varied situations than any another." A footnote to this comment on p. 372 adds "Even BAGD (s.v. en, 258) recognizes the difficulty of cataloging every usage: 'The uses of this prep. are so many-sided, and oft. so easily confused, that a strictly systematic treatment is impossible.' "

Young’s Analytical Concordance
tells us that en (or ἐν) may be rendered into English as “in,’ ‘by,’ ‘with,’ ‘through,’ etc. – Eerdmans Publ., 1978 printing.

W. E. Vine tells us the ‘instrumental’ use of the NT Greek word en (or ἐν) is often intended to mean ‘with’ and ‘by means of.’

“A very important instance of the instrumental en is in Rom. 3:25 where the [Revised Version], ‘faith, by [en] his blood,’ corrects the [KJV], ‘faith in [en] his blood,’ …. Thus the statement reads ‘whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, by his blood.’ Christ is a propitiation, by means of His blood, i.e., His expiatory death. Faith is exercised in the living God, not in the blood, which provides the basis of faith.” – p. 1271, An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, Thomas Nelson, Inc., 1983 printing.

Thayer agrees with this meaning of ἐν (en):

d. of the instrument or means by or with which anything is accomplished …, where we say with, by means of, by (through)” – p. 210, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Baker Book House, 1984 printing

Liddell and Scott also tell us about the meanings of ἐν:

III. OF THE INSTRUMENT, MEANS OR MANNER” – p. 257, An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford University Press, 1994 printing.

This explains why at Col. 1:16, for example, ‘For in [en] him all things were created,’ as found in the RSV, is also properly translated ‘For through him…’ (GNB; MLB; AT; C.B.Williams; & Phillips), and ‘For by Him…’ (NIV; KJV; NKJV; BBE; MKJV; Webster; Darby; Moffatt; & Barclay).

For example, expressions in the Bible like ‘in Christ’ - “denote membership in Christ and his church ... 1 Thess. 4:16; Ro. 8:1; 16:11” - Kittel, p. 233, and #45 in ‘Hints and Helps’, Young’s Analytical Concordance. And sure enough, when we look up these scriptures, we see that they use en, ἐν, which is usually translated “in.” But notice how these trinitarian Bibles render these verses:

1 Th. 4:16 - “the dead in [en] Christ shall rise first.” - NASB.

“the dead in union with [en] Christ will rise” - CBW.

“those who have died believing in [en] Christ will rise” - TEV (Cf 4:14).

“those who belong to [en] Christ will come out of their graves” - NLV.

“the believers who are dead will be the first to rise” - Living Bible.

“first those who died in union with [en] Christ will rise” - AT

Ro. 8:1 - “There is...no condemnation for those who are in [en] Christ Jesus” - NASB.

“there is no ... for those who are in union with [en] Christ Jesus” - CBW.

“There is no ... for those who live in union with [en] Christ Jesus” - TEV.

“those who belong to [en] Christ will not suffer....” - NLV.

“those who belong to [en] Christ Jesus” - Living Bible.

“those who are united with [en] Christ Jesus” - REB.

“those who are in union with [en] Christ Jesus” - AT (Smith-Goodspeed)

Ro. 16:11 - “those of the household of Narcissus, who are in [en] the Lord” - NASB.

“...in the family of Narcissus that belong to [en] the Lord” - ETRV.

“the household of Narcissus who are in the Lord’s fellowship” - NEB.

“the household of Narcissus who are in the Lord’s fellowship” - REB.

“the household of Narcissus who belong to [en] the Lord” - JB.

“those who belong to [en] the Lord in the household of Narcissus” - NJB.

In fact, the authoritative, trinitarian reference work, The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology says of some of the NT uses of the preposition ἐν (“in”) specifically as found in the phrase “in Christ” (ἐν Χριστῷ):

(a) Incorporative union: .... “those who are in union with Christ Jesus” (Ro. 8:1).... (b) Sphere of reference: “I know a Christian man” (2 Cor. 5:21). “We make our boast in the sphere of Christ Jesus” (Phil. 3:3)... (c) Agency or instrumentality: “They are justified ... through the redemption accomplished by Christ Jesus” (Ro. 3:24). “The veil is not lifted because only through Christ is it removed” (2 Cor. 3:14). (d) Cause:.... “All will be made alive by virtue of their connexion and solidarity with Christ” ( 1 Cor. 15:22). (e) Mode:.... (f) Location: .... “Have this attitude among you that also characterized Christ Jesus” (Phil. 2:5). (g) Authoritative basis: “We urge you on the authority of the Lord Jesus” (1 Thess. 4:1).” - p. 1192, Vol. 3, Zondervan, 1986.

And so it is that Jesus, in prayer to God, says: “As you, Father, are in [ἐν] me and I am in [ἐν] you, may they [Jesus’ followers] also be in [ἐν] us” - John 17:21, NRSV.

Since trinitarians generally want some mysterious, physical “oneness” with Jesus and the Father to indicate that they are both, somehow, God, they usually leave ἐν in this scripture as the more literal “in.” However, the fact that Jesus’ followers, too, are to be ἐν Jesus and ἐν the Father makes it reasonable that a simple unity of purpose or agreement is being described here.

That is why even some trinitarian Bibles render John 17:21 as

“just as you, Father, are in union with me and I in union with you, for them to be in union with [en] us” - CBW.

“... let them be in union with [en] us” - AT (Smith and Goodspeed).

“May they belong to us” - NLV.

And respected trinitarian commentaries even explain that John 17:21 is telling us that there must be “unity among believers” - p. 280, Vol. V, Word Pictures in the New Testament, A.T. Robertson.
Hi, I'm confused about your stance.
What is a trinitarian.
And correct me if I'm wrong, Are you saying, as it helps with fulfilling my answer, that it means in fellowship with?
And that because it does then what?
 
Paul wrote, "And be found in him, not having my own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.

In the judgment we will either be found "In Christ" or we will be found in our sins. To be "In Christ" is great joy and peace in the Holy Spirit, Romans 14:17. To be "In Christ" means that I have been accepted in him, Ephesians 1:6. We are MADE acceptable. We do not become acceptable by our works or by our obedience to the law, "So by the obedience of one (Christ) shall many be MADE righteous" Romans 5:19.
Unfortunately beginning a thread and quoting a single verse, wont have as great an illumination as God places including verses before and after that single quote of Philippians 3:9.

Apostle Paul cant be a false example, he wants us to follow his words and examples because he is following those of Christ.

Just the same as Christ suffered the loss of all things, ( Matthew 8:20.) Paul began exactly the same way. ( suffered the loss of all things that he may win Christ. ( all the Apostles of Christ are example for loosing all things too. Mark 10:18-30.)

Then there is hope to be found in Him. ( In Him is also spiritually becoming poor, to make us rich. 2 Corinthians 8:9.)

This also is the righteousness of God by faith, as this is the faith of Christ as told in all the verses, ( loosing all things for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus our Lord. ( Jesus told us exactly this, to lose our lives to find them again. Matthew 10:39. 16:25.)

This also is knowing Him, knowing, the power of HIs resurrection, the fellowship of His sufferings, ( suffering the loss of all things that we may win Christ.) and it was also spoken of in the previous chapter 2 Philippians, of the humbling of Christ and becoming obedient to the death of the cross, and by that God highly exalted Him, ( this is knowing/believing, in the power of His resurrection.) and given Him a name which is above every name. ( the living name to believe in.) Being made conformable to His death is beginning as Christ and all the Apostles did, ( loss of all things) and continuing on in humility obedient unto death. ( being faithful unto death to be given a crown of life. Revelation 2:5.)


Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Philippians 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
 
Our salvation is in a very safe place, Matthew 6:19-21. We are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven, Paul wrote, "If you have been risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sits at the right hand of God. Set your affections on things which are above, not on things on the earth, for you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:1-3.

When God the Father accepted Jesus into heaven, we were accepted in him. God the Father now sees his people as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. We are no longer struggling to be accepted by him, we are ALREADY accepted in him. Jesus has MADE us acceptable to God in himself. This is what it means to be "In Christ". All that are "In Christ" are resting "In Christ". They have ceased from their own works and are resting and trusting in his work, Hebrews 4:10.
Philippians 3 makes it clear that Apostle Paul is a doer, not a talker.

Salvation of Matthew 6:19-21, must continue in the same narrow path.

Which of course it does say, that our treasure should not be on earth, but in heaven, ( Apostle Paul counted all things dung, lost them, that he might win Christ, who also had suffered the loss of all things/become poor for our sakes.) as where our treasure is, our heart will be also. ( we cant swerve God and money/mammon)

Remembering how all the Apostles are all actual examples, ( words plus deeds) the rich man was the wrong example, of being grieved to lose all of his many possessions. ( grieved at being told how to have treasure in heaven by Christ, who had done the same.)



Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
 
When God the Father accepted Jesus into heaven, we were accepted in him. God the Father now sees his people as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. We are no longer struggling to be accepted by him, we are ALREADY accepted in him. Jesus has MADE us acceptable to God in himself. This is what it means to be "In Christ". All that are "In Christ" are resting "In Christ". They have ceased from their own works and are resting and trusting in his work, Hebrews 4:10.
Yet Christ never rested, as told in the scripture:


Isaiah 62:1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.



Then He entered into His rest. ( after He suffered all things and endured)



Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?



That is why there remains a rest, as Christ laboured to enter into His rest, ( Christ did not cease from His works, He endured the cross, so that we will not be weary or faint in our minds, and labour, and endure, and suffer with Him. ( to be glorified with Him.)

Romans 8:17 makes it painfully clear, we must have ( must believe) that we have the exact same nature as Christ, to be joint heirs with Him, is suffering with Him. ( in the same sufferings of Christ, which are labouring, and enduring with Him. 2 Corinthians 1:5. 1:6. 1 Peter 4:13.)



Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
 
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Corinthians

I guess the first question is how are "all" men dying in Adam.

And secondly, how did all men get in Adam?

And I'd have to say the course of nature.
-Nature would be the natural process that the course of life takes as it developes in it's environment.

When Adam lived off Satan's Words He died.
Because He believed Satan. Now Adam is the Father of all men. Rather a curse 🤬 or DNA Change, I would not know.
Abraham is the father of all them that believe.

The faith of Abraham, is the father of us all. ( faith of heaven.)

Jerusalem which is from above (the heavenly/ the free) is the mother of us all.

(Jerusalem which now is) is in bondage with her children. ( they are not freed)




Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Galatians 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.




Now there are two types of children. Children of the promise, and those who are not. ( those born after the flesh persecute those who are born after the Spirit.)

Those of the flesh are not heirs with the free, we see they are cast out. ( to be joint heirs with Christ is to suffer with Him. Romans 8:17.)


Galatians 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.



The good and bad are called to Christ. ( both consider they are in Christ in their own ways.)

A wedding garment is required. ( few receive it.)

Then who are the good ?

Those who are not wicked and lazy. ( to be a profitable servant to Christ, as the Son was to the Father.)



Matthew 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matthew 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.





We see the ones cast out believed in doing nothing. ( when they do not believe, they have no father in faith, and it is why they are cast out. Hebrews 12:8.)
 
It means once in Christ always in Christ.

Could you post the scripture that says "once in Christ always in Christ".

If this were true why did Jesus tell his disciples they must remain "in Christ"?

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


Let's make sure we are giving people here the whole counsel of God.

Scripture instructs us how to remain in Him.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB
 
I know this sounds silly but, I like this part...

"your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:1-3."

Does that mean we are kept safe in Him or that we are a secret being kept from Satan? Like a hidey hole.
I think it means this:

2Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed.
1 John 3:2
 
Hi, I'm confused about your stance.
What is a trinitarian.
And correct me if I'm wrong, Are you saying, as it helps with fulfilling my answer, that it means in fellowship with?
And that because it does then what?
A trinitarian believes in a trinity. I am a trinitarian because the bible teaches a trinity, John 14:7-9.

Being "In Christ" means that God sees the believer "In Christ". It is more than a fellowship.
 
I think it means this:

2Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed.
1 John 3:2
Much more than that. God sees the believer "In Christ". It's like you don't count anymore. "For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:3.
 
Could you post the scripture that says "once in Christ always in Christ".

If this were true why did Jesus tell his disciples they must remain "in Christ"?

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


Let's make sure we are giving people here the whole counsel of God.

Scripture instructs us how to remain in Him.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB
All believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. There is no unsealing, Ephesians 1:13. Trying to keep the law will not keep you "In Christ". What it will do is make God angry, Romans 4:15.
 
Abraham is the father of all them that believe.

The faith of Abraham, is the father of us all. ( faith of heaven.)
Revelations
And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
His name shall be called . . . Everlasting Father” (Isa. 9:6)
 
All believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. There is no unsealing, Ephesians 1:13. Trying to keep the law will not keep you "In Christ". What it will do is make God angry, Romans 4:15.

Please show the scripture that says there is no unsealing?

Sealed refers to a seal of authenticy, which a king or ruler imprints his signet ring into wax to authenticate a document or letter.

The Holy Spirit is the seal of authenticity of a true Christian.


Again Jesus plainly stated that we must remain in Him.


Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



JLB
 
Please show the scripture that says there is no unsealing?

Sealed refers to a seal of authenticy, which a king or ruler imprints his signet ring into wax to authenticate a document or letter.

The Holy Spirit is the seal of authenticity of a true Christian.


Again Jesus plainly stated that we must remain in Him.


Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



JLB
Law and commandment keeping has been abolished for the Christian, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed the law to his cross, Colossians 2:14. Under the New Covenant God's people live by faith, Colossians 2:14. They live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. Living by laws, rules and commandments will put you under the curse, Galatians 3:10. Law keeping did not work for the Pharisees and it will not work for you.
 
All believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. There is no unsealing, Ephesians 1:13. Trying to keep the law will not keep you "In Christ". What it will do is make God angry, Romans 4:15.
As to the sealing, I would think Christ can be in you but that does mean that you are in Christ.

For Christ in you is said to be the hope of glory.

There is a scripture that says to test yourself to see if you are in the faith, don't you know Christ is in you otherwise you failed the test.

The promise of the Spirit, and correct me with scripture if I am wrong, was given that we would choose to obey it/Him.

So for today we get a glimpse of eternal life in this life as we live by the word. So we can expect what life eternal is in front of us.

"With the view to the redemption to the praise of His Glory"
 
Like all other Christians they sin, but forgiven on the basis of repentance and Jesus' shed blood. Remember though they are judged on higher standards as they know God fully.
All that come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by Jesus are spiritually placed "In Christ". They are accepted only "In Christ" Ephesians 6:6. Christians will never be judged for sins, because God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ", Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation because there is no law. Romans 4:15. It has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.
 
Law and commandment keeping has been abolished for the Christian, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed the law to his cross, Colossians 2:14. Under the New Covenant God's people live by faith, Colossians 2:14. They live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. Living by laws, rules and commandments will put you under the curse, Galatians 3:10. Law keeping did not work for the Pharisees and it will not work for you.
Hi, just maybe you are trying to say that the law is fulfilled in Christ.
The Law as I think you may mean is no longer the direct source of righteousness but it's the course of righteousness.
For it is written in Romans, Shall we nullify the law, but no uphold it through faith.
Another words through what Jesus did as became the source of righteousness, we through Him can uphold the law.

Therefore the saying the law is not the Source of Salvation but it's the course .

Which then goes with JLB scripture:

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
 
Last edited:
As to the sealing, I would think Christ can be in you but that does mean that you are in Christ.

For Christ in you is said to be the hope of glory.

There is a scripture that says to test yourself to see if you are in the faith, don't you know Christ is in you otherwise you failed the test.

The promise of the Spirit, and correct me with scripture if I am wrong, was given that we would choose to obey it/Him.

So for today we get a glimpse of eternal life in this life as we live by the word. So we can expect what life eternal is in front of us.

"With the view to the redemption to the praise of His Glory"
The Holy Spirit is only given to those that believe the Gospel. It is not given to those who are trying to keep the law, Galatians 3:2. The law and the commandments will not save you, Romans 3:20. The law and the commandments will damn you to hell, Galatians 3:10. Under the New Covenant the just shall live by faith, Romans 1:17. Not by rules, laws or religion.
 
Back
Top