Hopefully the other post I wrote will allow you to understand further.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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What does it mean to be "In Christ?"
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Robert Pate
Member
No one in the Old Testament or the New Testament was saved by obeying the law. The law was given to reveal the righteousness of God and the sinfulness of man, "By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20. We uphold the law by being "In Christ". God can find no sin in them that are "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.
If that Gospel is Jesus...true
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
This scripture only says how you have received it
It does not say what happens after you receive it and what it is for. Recall Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.
Living by His Spirit is the way in which the law is upheld.
So I am in no way saying we keep the law in trying to keep it as unregenerate by ourself.
I am saying Christ Kept it and He is the source to us upholding the law.
Again in this context one is speaking of the unregenerate.
Now here you are correct...
Of Course there are rules and laws
Love God and Love your neighbor...etc
So I'll just leave this alone for a minute and give you this passage.
Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
So if you see here the Spirit is already given, which then means to me man is regenerative. Now when you walk after the Spirit you can uphold the Law.
Romans 3:31
Do we then nullify the law through faith? Absolutely not! Instead we uphold the law.
Robert Pate
Member
There are no laws or rules for those that are "In Christ". Christians are NOT Pharisees. Christians are led by the Holy Spirit, not the law. If you need the law, it is because you are lawless and disobedient, 1 Timothy 1:9.
Worse yet, the law promotes sin, Romans 7:8. This is why Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. They live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. You are probably hearing some things that you have never heard before.
If possible just take some time to reread what has already been written.
Because: remain in me is a command
Another: if you are in the light you should walk by the light
Obey the Spirit
Add patience
etc.....
I think you are not understanding
As already written the law is fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh[meaning what we can do in our natural ability] but the Spirit.
Peace out
Robert Pate
Member
You are quoting Romans 8:1. Unfortunately, you didn't read far enough.
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death" Romans 8:2.
The law of sin and death is the Mosiac law, 2 Corinthians 3:7.
To walk in the Spirit is to walk in the Gospel, not the law. In the Gospel we are ALREADY complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. In the Gospel we are ALREADY reconciled to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.
It appears to me that you are trying to do in your flesh what God has ALREADY done in Jesus Christ.
The most extraordinary scripture
I read as a Baptist that shed much light was Galatians 2:16 in the King JAMES VERSION
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
......
Also As I was reading the other versions
You get the wording "faith in Christ"
Would love to do a study on this because I also saw it for first time as the faith that Is in Christ.
Is there a faith that is in Christ...and I would say the faith that works by love.
In the end it's about obedience to the Father.
And there again my answer to the thread.
To be in Christ is obedience to the Father by eating Jesus Flesh and drinking His blood-and no I'm not talking about cannibalism. I'm speaking about living out His life.
I read as a Baptist that shed much light was Galatians 2:16 in the King JAMES VERSION
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
......
Also As I was reading the other versions
You get the wording "faith in Christ"
Would love to do a study on this because I also saw it for first time as the faith that Is in Christ.
Is there a faith that is in Christ...and I would say the faith that works by love.
In the end it's about obedience to the Father.
And there again my answer to the thread.
To be in Christ is obedience to the Father by eating Jesus Flesh and drinking His blood-and no I'm not talking about cannibalism. I'm speaking about living out His life.
If you read through again and take some time to meditate on what Scripture and understanding I've already written I pray
you will gradually see.I read that passage before but not what I referenced. But sense you quoted it, do you know how it sets you free? It sets you free because you have no longer only one nature you are bent towards. The law it's speaking of is the natural course ones life takes as headed by the Spirit. Like, laws of nature.
No one said you walk in the law at least not before you live by the Spirit.
And one is reconciled for a purpose, the purpose of fellowship.
I know it does, but if you go back and meditate for awhile I pray it will not appear to you that way anymore.
Tenchi
Member
Oh, that what you wrote in the last sentence of your remarks above were true! As this thread illustrates, though, such isn't actually the case. Some believers are determined to contribute to the perfectly-accomplished, atoning, saving work of Christ with their own self-effort, laboring to be righteous under the frightful idea that, if they don't, God will boot them out of His family and kingdom.
It is fear that motivates this sort of obedience to God, not love, and behind the fear is self-interest, not the Spirit. You can see this in how obey-or-else believers talk about why they ought to obey. A deep desire for God (love) doesn't come into it, really, at all. Self-preservation is the motivation for obedience to God. "Do you want to go to hell?" they ask, quoting verses that seem to indicate that a believer's salvation is always dangerously-balanced on the edge of a precipice and will fall into damnation should they slack at all in their performance of God's will. These obey-or-else believers are occupied, not with Christ, enjoying the rest, satisfaction and peace they have in him, but with keeping themselves safe from a threatening Creator. God does not accept "obedience" that arises from such a self-centered, self-interested motive; for He wants us to obey because we love Him, not because we are constantly afraid of His rejection and wrath.
1 John 4:16-19 (NASB)
16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
19 We love, because He first loved us.
The apostle John wrote of not just knowing about God's love but believing it and thus coming to abide in Him. He wrote nothing in the passage above, though, about the role of constant, careful obedience to God in his explanation of how one comes to "abide in God." And in this passage, John eradicates the idea that self-interested fear has any place in abiding in God, indicating that the love-motive and the fear-motive are mutually-exclusive things, love "casting out" the tormenting fear of divine punishment (ie. - losing one's salvation). Firmly convinced of the love of God for them, born-again believers can "have confidence in the Day of Judgement." The child of God settled well into the truth of God's awesome, unchanging, faithful love for them finds, in particular, liberty from the craven fear of punishment, obeying and serving God because they love Him rather than because they fear for themselves, anxious God will cast them out if they don't "step right."
Romans 8:38-39 (NASB)
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Hebrews 13:5 (NASB)
5 ...for God Himself has said, "I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you,"
In light of what John wrote, it always puzzles me how eager some fellow believers are to urge on their brethren a self-preserving, fear-centered "obedience" to God. They seem to have forgotten what the First and Great Commandment is; or, if they do acknowledge it, they offer mere lip-service to the command, typically conflating obedience with love, mistaking effect for cause, making the two things synonymous (which they aren't). But Paul wrote that, no matter what a believer might say, or know, or do, if it isn't all coming from a deep desire - love - for God, it's all entirely spiritually useless.
1 Corinthians 13:1-3 (NASB)
1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
All the fear-based, rule-focused obedience to God that certain believers are eager to promote to their brothers and sisters in the Lord is spiritually useless, rejected by God because it arises from an ultimately self-centered, self-protecting motive, not from a profound longing, thirsting, hungering, for Himself. Beware these folk! They will move you away from God, not toward Him!
You are sorely mistaken, sir.
The law of Moses has been abolished, not the law of Christ.
His commandments are written on our heart, under the New Covenant.
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3
- His commandments are the way of love.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
- I know Him = Eternal Life
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
John 15:10
- Again, the way the scriptures instruct us to remain in Christ is by keeping His commandments, which is walking in love.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
I hope and pray you read and meditate on these scriptures, and pray and ask God to help you understand what is written.
JLB
Robert Pate
Member
I am afraid that you are in serious trouble.
Anything that tells us to do something or not to do something is law. Under the New Covenant "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. The law that is written on our heart is a prompting or an urging to do what is right. There is no condemnation if this law is violated, Romans 8:1-2. The written Mosiac law demands absolute perfect obedience or death.
Christians are not under the law or subject to it. They are NOT Pharisees. The are taught and led by the Holy Spirit, John 16:13-14. To be under the law is to be under the curse, Galatians 3:10. This is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law" Galatians 4:21. Worse yet, Paul said that the law is a ministration of death, 2 Corinthians 3:7.
Robert Pate
Member
All true. Obedience is motivated by love, not by law.
Why
"Be transformed by the renewing of the mind"
are you saying that statement above is under the Law of Mosis or the Old Covenant?
but
how?My answer: In the sense that Firsthand, A person's weakness in natural ability in "the flesh" could not keep the law.
Now, upholding the law is through the faithfulness of Christ (because being God He upheld His word)
Note the phrase..."For righteousness"
Another words what you could not do Christ did.
And now that He has done it, He became the source of our salvation. You can find that in Hebrews
"SOURCE" is a key word
the source then is the place where deliverence is found.
Now that I put that out there we can go onto
Galatians 2:16
"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
So let's asked some questions from this passage.
Even they believed in Who? Answer: Jesus
What was a reason they believed in Jesus?
Answer: That they might be justified
How might they be justified? Answer: by the faith / or faithfulness of Jesus.
Recall man could not be justified by the law with his flesh- meaning what He could do in His natural ability because of the weakness of it.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Looking at the wording in red print: we find how man is Justified....He's justified by the faith/faithfulness of Christ.
Now anyone who has been born again and forgiven of sin can share their experience by giving an example of how this happened for them.
Sin is defined one way as transgressing the law.
So that sounds confusing.
Sense scripture says there is no sin in Christ.
That sounds like you are saying you can be in Christ and walk in darkness at the same time.
Christians are not under the law for righteousness.
They are under a higher law, the law of Christ which I believe is to Love. For love fulfills the law and the prophets.
Gal 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
How does this work with the 'Trinity'?
Which one of the many scriptires do you disagree with?
Love is what God desires from us. Love the Lord and love our neighbor.
Im sure you would agree.
Obedience = Love.
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3
When we disobey God and violate His commandments of love then we are walking in hate.
If I murder my neighbor, am I expressing love?
If I comnitt adultery with my neighbors wife, am I expressing love?
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Think about these things and lets discuss.
JLB
I agree...with the first part....but it seems you lump all laws together. And context is everything. Because this is what scripture says about his commands.
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Psalms 19: 7-14
8 Things the Bible says about the Law of God
What does the Bible say about the law of God? Is it true that we, Christians, are no longer required to keep God’s law? Is the law a burden or a blessing? In this post, let us answer these qu…
becomingchristians.com
I thought I posted my study on this topic previously, but I double checked and couldn't find it, so I'll do so here as a response to the OP
"In Christ": What does it really mean?
The words “in Christ” and similar, i.e.; “in Jesus Christ”, “in Christ Jesus”, “in him’, are used ad nauseam within the Christian world with hardly anyone ever giving any thought whatsoever as to what the words really mean or entail, thus relegating them to nothing more than Christian “buzz words” that sound good and Christian-like.
So what do these words really mean? What does it mean to be “in Christ” and how does one get “in Christ” or into Christ? Is there a specific way stated in the bible? Are there unique benefits for being “in Christ” once one has achieved that state of being “in him”? Are there benefits available to those not being “in Christ”? Can you receive spiritual blessings without being “in Christ”?
These are logical questions that should be asked or considered when one sees or uses these or similar words inferring the same.
There are 146 references in the New Testament (may not be all inclusive, but close if not) using these exact or similar words as those mentioned above. If mentioned that frequently and to that extent, it must be of great importance, so likewise, all should render like importance to these words when using them, clearly understanding what they truly mean and entail.
Consider the suffix “ian” attached to the word “Christ” to become the word Christian; what does "ian" attached to the end a word mean or indicate? One of its meanings is 'from or belonging to'. As it pertains to Christ, it indicates that a Christian is from or belonging to, or in other words, owned by Christ! It should be noted too that the word “Christian” doesn’t mean a believer in or follower of Christ, but rather really means owned by Christ. So, you could be a believer in and follower of Jesus, practice some form of “Christian” religious worship, be devout, moral, etc. etc, but not be owned by Him, not “in him”.
Note that the bible says the following:
1 Cor 6:20 "For ye are bought with a price:"
Acts 20:28 “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."
The above clearly states that Christ purchased or bought the church with His own blood, so it's clear that Christians, those owned by Christ, those that are part of his body (the church), have been bought and paid for by his blood which was the price he paid for them who are now “in him”. Therefore, those that are “in” the church are His, and are “in him”.
What are some of the benefits that being owned by or “in Christ” bestowed upon you that are unable to be conferred in any other way according to scripture?
• Be saved, receive redemption, have your sins remitted and added to the Lord’s body which is the church
• Be buried/planted with Him in the likeness of his death thus enabling like resurrection
• Put on Christ and become a Christian and child of God
• Receive the Holy Spirit, spiritual gifts, blessings, have hope, and be made alive in Him
So, how do you become owned by, “in Christ”, and part of the church? The fact of the matter is, there is one specific way mentioned in the bible as to what one must do to be “in Christ” as well as benefits for being “in him” that can only be realized thereby: by baptism.
Rom 6:3 “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death”?
Gal 3:26/27 “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ”.
1st Cor 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Rom 6:4 “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life”.
Col 2:12 “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead”.
Rom 6:5 “For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection”:
Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”. 41 “Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls”. 47 “Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
• Christ’s body is the church of which He is the head (Col 1:18, Eph 5:23);
• You become part of the church by becoming a part of His body. You become part of His body by being baptized into it.
• In it (His body, the church), you obtain spiritual blessings (Eph 1:3).
• Are you really a Christian without being part of His body, the church, which you are added to upon being baptized (Acts 2:41, 47)?
• If you’re not buried with Him through baptism, can you then still be raised with Him?
"In Christ": What does it really mean?
The words “in Christ” and similar, i.e.; “in Jesus Christ”, “in Christ Jesus”, “in him’, are used ad nauseam within the Christian world with hardly anyone ever giving any thought whatsoever as to what the words really mean or entail, thus relegating them to nothing more than Christian “buzz words” that sound good and Christian-like.
So what do these words really mean? What does it mean to be “in Christ” and how does one get “in Christ” or into Christ? Is there a specific way stated in the bible? Are there unique benefits for being “in Christ” once one has achieved that state of being “in him”? Are there benefits available to those not being “in Christ”? Can you receive spiritual blessings without being “in Christ”?
These are logical questions that should be asked or considered when one sees or uses these or similar words inferring the same.
There are 146 references in the New Testament (may not be all inclusive, but close if not) using these exact or similar words as those mentioned above. If mentioned that frequently and to that extent, it must be of great importance, so likewise, all should render like importance to these words when using them, clearly understanding what they truly mean and entail.
Consider the suffix “ian” attached to the word “Christ” to become the word Christian; what does "ian" attached to the end a word mean or indicate? One of its meanings is 'from or belonging to'. As it pertains to Christ, it indicates that a Christian is from or belonging to, or in other words, owned by Christ! It should be noted too that the word “Christian” doesn’t mean a believer in or follower of Christ, but rather really means owned by Christ. So, you could be a believer in and follower of Jesus, practice some form of “Christian” religious worship, be devout, moral, etc. etc, but not be owned by Him, not “in him”.
Note that the bible says the following:
1 Cor 6:20 "For ye are bought with a price:"
Acts 20:28 “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."
The above clearly states that Christ purchased or bought the church with His own blood, so it's clear that Christians, those owned by Christ, those that are part of his body (the church), have been bought and paid for by his blood which was the price he paid for them who are now “in him”. Therefore, those that are “in” the church are His, and are “in him”.
What are some of the benefits that being owned by or “in Christ” bestowed upon you that are unable to be conferred in any other way according to scripture?
• Be saved, receive redemption, have your sins remitted and added to the Lord’s body which is the church
• Be buried/planted with Him in the likeness of his death thus enabling like resurrection
• Put on Christ and become a Christian and child of God
• Receive the Holy Spirit, spiritual gifts, blessings, have hope, and be made alive in Him
So, how do you become owned by, “in Christ”, and part of the church? The fact of the matter is, there is one specific way mentioned in the bible as to what one must do to be “in Christ” as well as benefits for being “in him” that can only be realized thereby: by baptism.
Rom 6:3 “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death”?
Gal 3:26/27 “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ”.
1st Cor 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Rom 6:4 “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life”.
Col 2:12 “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead”.
Rom 6:5 “For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection”:
Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”. 41 “Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls”. 47 “Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
• Christ’s body is the church of which He is the head (Col 1:18, Eph 5:23);
• You become part of the church by becoming a part of His body. You become part of His body by being baptized into it.
• In it (His body, the church), you obtain spiritual blessings (Eph 1:3).
• Are you really a Christian without being part of His body, the church, which you are added to upon being baptized (Acts 2:41, 47)?
• If you’re not buried with Him through baptism, can you then still be raised with Him?
Thank you.
You made some good points.
At the end of the proverbial day, here is who will receive eternal salvation.
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9
Many people are saying many things, and many don’t even know or understand what they are saying because they are just repeating what they heard someone say.
Words, the meaning of words, as they were understood in that time period, has everything to do with understanding the doctrine.
Misunderstand the word, and most likely you will misunderstand the doctrine. Redefine the meaning of a biblical word and you redefine the doctrine.
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this (obeying this) you will save both yourself and those who hear you. 1 Timothy 4:16
JLB