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What Does Jesus Say About A Saved Person Becoming Unsaved ?

7thMoon said:
It is a theological loaded word. It smells like manure.
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To everyone involved in this thread, it's been good to see things have not degenerated into insulting remarks so far. I'm impressed because it's usually not the case on most Christian forums, and discussion has been good. But be advised. Debates over the issue of OSAS are actually banned from this website because in the past they have inevitably resulted in strife and ungodliness at some point. We have allowed this one to continue because interaction has been respectful.

Please keep it that way.

In Christ,
Hidden In Him
 
Hidden In Him said:
To everyone involved in this thread, it's been good to see things have not degenerated into insulting remarks so far. I'm impressed because it's usually not the case on most Christian forums, and discussion has been good. But be advised. Debates over the issue of OSAS are actually banned from this website because in the past they have inevitably resulted in strife and ungodliness at some point. We have allowed this one to continue because interaction has been respectful.

Please keep it that way.

In Christ,
Hidden In Him
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Unfortunately reward and salvation are often being conflated, those two are not the same. In the parable of the prodigal son, that younger son repented his sins and the father accepted him, he was definitely saved - or "rescued", but he will have no inheritance because he has squandered it all. Who will received the inheritance? The older son, who's often cast as the villain. "All I have is yours," promised the father.
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
Unfortunately reward and salvation are often being conflated, those two are not the same. In the parable of the prodigal son, that younger son repented his sins and the father accepted him, he was definitely saved - or "rescued", but he will have no inheritance because he has squandered it all. Who will received the inheritance? The older son, who's often cast as the villain. "All I have is yours," promised the father.
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I think you confuse it with the Parable of the Pharisee and The Sinner. The sinner left justified.
 
7thMoon said:
I think you confuse it with the Parable of the Pharisee and The Sinner. The sinner left justified.
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No I didn't. The gist of the Parable of the Pharisee and The Sinner is about pride and humility, it's about salvation by grace through faith. The Pharisee is full of himself, he thought he was justified by his good works, and he boasted of his good works before God; the tax collector confessed his sins and pleaded for mercy from God. The Pharisee looked inward, he had faith only in himself; the tax collector looked outward and upward, he had faith in God.
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
No I didn't. The gist of the Parable of the Pharisee and The Sinner is about pride and humility, it's about salvation by grace through faith. The Pharisee is full of himself, he thought he was justified by his good works, and he boasted of his good works before God; the tax collector confessed his sins and pleaded for mercy from God. The Pharisee looked inward, he had faith only in himself; the tax collector looked outward and upward, he had faith in God.
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Well, this is the first time I heard about the oldest son in the Prodigal Son parable (?). The version I heard was less biblical, and I don't remember anything about another son. But it is there, and if I ignored it, perhaps I did something right.
 
7thMoon said:
Well, this is the first time I heard about the oldest son in the Prodigal Son parable (?). The version I heard was less biblical, and I don't remember anything about another son. But it is there, and if I ignored it, perhaps I did something right.
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The older son is not a villain as you've heard, he's just dull, a bit of clueless and grumpy, but he's been diligent and loyal. He's trying to make some senses out of the father who acted completely out of social norms, even shameful. The Parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector was another story on another day.
 
Consecrated Life said:
Thank You Taz.
I must say however that you are repeating a misconception that I have seen more than once already in regard to the parable that did not come from me .
Nowhere have I said the Father stopped loving the son?
Not sure where you got that .
Just as it is a fact that God Loves the whole world & there is nothing that anyone can do to cause God to stop loving the whole world, and it is God's desire that not even one person should perish, we know that the majority of humanity will reject the Father and be lost.
Jesus attests to the fact when he says " broad is the gate that leads to destruction & many are those who go thru it"
There will not be one person who will be in hell who can say they got there because the Father stopped loving them.
The term Jesus uses to describe the son's estate before he came to the Father is identical to the way Jesus describes me and you before we came to Him.
The Lord does not give muddled or mixed messages with regard to eternal life .

Luk 15:24
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.

Exact same term used by Jesus referring to us & the whole world unless we are saved:

Luk 19:10
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
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Luke 15:24
How do you explain the word AGAIN?

HE IS ALIVE AGAIN...
 
wondering said:
You're right 7thMoon

But rescue and save means the same.

If I rescue you from the flood....
I save you from the flood.
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While there's some subtle difference. "Rescue" has a narrow definition, usually it only means removing or evacuating from a dangerous situation; "Save" is closer to "keep" or "store", it's not always linked to a dangerous situation, but rather indicating a purpose for later use.
 
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Carry_Your_Name said:
While there's some subtle difference. "Rescue" has a narrow definition, usually it only means removing or evacuating from a dangerous situation; "Save" is closer to "keep" or "store", it's not always linked to a dangerous situation, but rather indicating a purpose for later use.
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Jesus is rescuing us from a dangerous situation.
 
wondering said:
Luke 15:24
How do you explain the word AGAIN?

HE IS ALIVE AGAIN...
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Good Morning,
I did answer this question regarding his formerly "alive state" already on page 3 .
The answer is quite biblical.
If you or me had died when we were 1 year olds you don't believe we would have been hell doomed do you ?
Why not ?
In this way we are all alive, including the prodigal, in God's eyes as children, until we reach the age of accountability.

See how David is relived in the assurance of God that he will one day be joined with his infant son in heaven:

2Sa 12:22
And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
TOOLS
2Sa 12:23
But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

Now see the difference in David's sorrow & grief upon learning of his grown son Absolom's death after reaching the age of accountability as he died rebellion against God :

2Sa 19:4
But the king covered his face, and the king cried with a loud voice, O my son Absalom, O Absalom, my son, my son!
 
wondering said:
Luke 15:24
How do you explain the word AGAIN?

HE IS ALIVE AGAIN...
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Here is a question I asked that you have not answered .
Could you return the favor in kind and answer this question for me as I am very curious in finding out?

Describe the process of a person who is saved, sanctified, redeemed , washed in the Blood of Jesus, Who loves Jesus, becoming re-condemned and bound for hell?
It is curious to me that in all this talk of such a thing being possible I have yet to hear a a description of exactly how a person would accomplish it ?
Exactly how would I do this for myself if I wanted to become re-condemned and bound for hell ?
Thank You
 
Consecrated Life said:
Good Morning,
I did answer this question regarding his formerly "alive state" already on page 3 .
The answer is quite biblical.
If you or me had died when we were 1 year olds you don't believe we would have been hell doomed do you ?
Why not ?
In this way we are all alive, including the prodigal, in God's eyes as children, until we reach the age of accountability.

See how David is relived in the assurance of God that he will one day be joined with his infant son in heaven:

2Sa 12:22
And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
TOOLS
2Sa 12:23
But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

Now see the difference in David's sorrow & grief upon learning of his grown son Absolom's death after reaching the age of accountability as he died rebellion against God :

2Sa 19:4
But the king covered his face, and the king cried with a loud voice, O my son Absalom, O Absalom, my son, my son!
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Of course babies don't go to hell.
Jesus agrees with us.

So salvation begins at the age of accountability.

We are lost.
We are found.

The NT does not begin with children but with adults,,,,mature persons.

In your scenario we're all born again twice.
Jesus said we must be born again,,,,
Once physically and ONCE spiritually.

However, your concept is interesting.
 
Consecrated Life said:
Here is a question I asked that you have not answered .
Could you return the favor in kind and answer this question for me as I am very curious in finding out?

Describe the process of a person who is saved, sanctified, redeemed , washed in the Blood of Jesus, Who loves Jesus, becoming re-condemned and bound for hell?
It is curious to me that in all this talk of such a thing being possible I have yet to hear a a description of exactly how a person would accomplish it ?
Exactly how would I do this for myself if I wanted to become re-condemned and bound for hell ?
Thank You
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Easy.
Something happens to cause you to doubt.
You feed this until you no longer believe.

You face a tragedy you were not prepared for.
You decide God does not exist.
You stop believing.

You fall in love with someone outside your marriage. God becomes uncomfortable, so you eliminate Him.
 
wondering said:
The NT does not begin with children but with adults,,,,mature persons.
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The prodigal began life as a child who had every assurance of being "alive" in God's eyes until he became accountable.
He was not a "mature person" as a child ?
Really do not understand why I have to explain that simple fact after what I just detailed ?
 
Consecrated Life said:
The prodigal began life as a child who had every assurance of being "alive" in God's eyes until he became accountable.
He was not a "mature person" as a child ?
Really do not understand why I have to explain that simple fact after what I just detailed ?
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Because every baby is saved but Paul states we are all sinners in need of salvation. So he means adults.

We thus are born from above spiritually only one time.
 
wondering said:
Easy.
Something happens to cause you to doubt.
You feed this until you no longer believe.

You face a tragedy you were not prepared for.
You decide God does not exist.
You stop believing.

You fall in love with someone outside your marriage. God becomes uncomfortable, so you eliminate Him.
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Why do you think you can't you point to a single such example of what you describe happening in the entire Word of God.
Take for instance the specific TRAGEDY in scripture I just quoted that happened to David he was not prepared for?
2Sa 19:4
But the king covered his face, and the king cried with a loud voice, O my son Absalom, O Absalom, my son, my son!

Why do think you have not a single solitary specific such example as David's in scripture of a "tragedy" like this where God is then rejected by the person experiencing such tragedy ?
Not one example given.

The scripture is not lacking at all in multiple examples "Tragedy" happening to people after all .
Right ?

Is there anything worse that can happen to a person in God's eyes than being lost to an eternal hell ?

Do you realize you are saying there is an alternate method of us ending up in hell that God refused to warn a world He loves about ?
 
Consecrated Life said:
Why do you think you can't you point to a single such example of what you describe happening in the entire Word of God.
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You meant in the NT?
I thought you wanted examples of how a person could lose their faith.

Right now Judas comes to mind.
He was one of the Apostles.
He lost his faith in Jesus and tried to do things his own way.
He made a mistake and realized it too late.
Instead of asking for forgiveness, he killed himself.

Adam and Eve.
They walked with God and had a good relationship with Him.
They disobeyed Him and were banished from the Garden.

Saul.
His salvation or loss thereof is not as obvious as those above,
but, IMHO, I don't see how he could have died saved.
And, he committed suicide just like Judas did, showing no faith in the God he had known.

Consecrated Life said:
Take for instance the specific TRAGEDY in scripture I just quoted that happened to David he was not prepared for?
2Sa 19:4
But the king covered his face, and the king cried with a loud voice, O my son Absalom, O Absalom, my son, my son!

Why do think you have not a single solitary specific such example as David's in scripture of a "tragedy" like this where God is then rejected by the person experiencing such tragedy ?
Not one example given.

The scripture is not lacking at all in multiple examples "Tragedy" happening to people after all .
Right ?
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I think you haven't quite grasped what I mean by tragedy.
Look around you. There are many grieving person around us.
Some of them look to God for help and strength,
Some of them lose their faith in God and abandon Him.
You're going to have to come to this conclusion on your own.
We each have our life experience.

Consecrated Life said:
Is there anything worse that can happen to a person in God's eyes than being lost to an eternal hell ?

Do you realize you are saying there is an alternate method of us ending up in hell that God refused to warn a world He loves about ?
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I said there's an alternative method of ending up in hell?
WHERE exactly did I make such a statement?

Also, I believe you should not look for persons in the bible that became lost to prove to yourself that this is not possible.

There are many verses in the NT that attest to the fact that it is possible for a person to forfeit their salvation.
This is an important topic because if you think you cannot lose your salvation, you might be tempted by the evil one to go beyond what God can bear in sinning.

If you need verses, I'll be happy to post them.
 
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