What Does Jesus Say About A Saved Person Becoming Unsaved ?

[Consecrated Life]

To stumble means to turn away from Christ, by renouncing Him as LORD, in order to "save your life" during persecution, so you can live a little longer.


This is what those who practiced Judaism would do to other Jews who were Christians, to get them to renounce Jesus as a false teacher, and false messiah.




JLB

So the only way to lose your salvation is if you renounce Jesus ?

This laundry list presented of other ways you can lose salvation is not true?

Live & walk by the spirit!

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

A big “if”?

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4)
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

Ex 20 obey the Ten Commandments
Deut. 6:4 obey the two greatest commandments
Matt 28:20 obey christ’s commandments
Acts 1:2 obey christ’s commandments
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
Mk 13:13 endure to the end
Matt 24:14 endure to the end
1 Jn 2:24-25 abide and continue in Christ
Rom 8:17 suffer with Christ
Rom 11:22 continue or be cut off
Col 1:21-23 if you continue
Col 2-5 steadfast
2 Tim 2:11-13 suffer
Phil 1:29 suffer for Christ’s sake
Heb 3:4-6 if we hold fast
Heb 6:4-9 fall away
Heb 12:22-25 lost if we turn away

We still have free will and can choose (volition) to reject Christ and the faith and renounce our baptism

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Abide in faith, but not faith alone!



Jn 15:1-4

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

You can’t say the branches are not saved (process of salvation) or not born again or spirit filled cos they were in Christ and connected to the vine!

The apostolic church is the mystical body of Christ.

A limb that has a cut off from the body dies, life remains with the body!

Serious Sin causes spiritual death and requires repentance before physical death makes the separation permanent. 1 Jn 5:16

Jn 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Matt 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Lost not simply “out of fellowship”!

 

[JLB]

So the only way to lose your salvation is if you renounce Jesus ?

I don't really find the phrase "lose your salvation" in the bible.

I instead see the word "lost".

Sin, unrepented sin, is how we can become lost; disconnected from Christ.

Again, same passage -

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17


You do understand that this passage that I have posted several times now, is Jesus explaining the parable of the lost sheep?





JLB

 

[Consecrated Life]

I don't really find the phrase "lose your salvation" in the bible.

I instead see the word "lost".


JLB

Your understanding then is being "lost" does not mean you have lost your salvation ?

 

[JLB]

Your understanding then is being "lost" does not mean you have lost your salvation ?

Do those who are lost need salvation?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Do those who are lost need salvation?

Especially if they lost the salvation that they once had .
In your theology does it get easier to regain salvation once you have lost it ?

 

[JLB]

Especially if they lost the salvation that they once had .
In your theology does it get easier to regain salvation once you have lost it ?

It takes repentance, just like when a person is first saved.

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’
• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

The person who becomes lost is considered to be a sinner again, in need of repentance in order to be reconciled back to God.

 

[Iconoclast]

Eternal life refers to grace

Believe and continue to believe
Jn 3:16 (present tense) believes
And we must abide in Christ Jn 15:4
Endure to the end Matt 24:13

Eternal life refers to the quality of it. It does NOT refer to grace.

 

[Iconoclast]

Please explain

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

The non physical part of a person is justified at the same time God grants them salvation. It is eternal
2cor4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. We are to be given an eternal body.

 

[Consecrated Life]

It takes repentance, just like when a person is first saved.



The person who becomes lost is considered to be a sinner again, in need of repentance in order to be reconciled back to God.

Is there a mainstream Christian denomination you know of that preaches this doctrine ?

 

[Randy]

Life is the life of God, and in us it is grace!
You can lose grace
Fallen from grace

Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

1 Timothy 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13


Can’t lose your salvation while still in this world:

Acts 1: 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Jn 15:1-5 abide

Matt 24:12 endure

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end.

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Eternal life is the life of God in us by faith and baptism.



Verses that oppose “faith alone”!

Mk 16:16 faith and baptism

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.


2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Do you understand grace? You seem to have a boatload of requirements

“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3“Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me” a ? 4And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” b 5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

I have been appointed to eternal life by the will of God. HE put His Spirit in me. That Spirit moves me to follow Him. I know I'm not free to sin. I know to love my neighbor as myself. I know Jesus Christ my Lord. I live by believing in Him. Though one day my body will die I will live and never die as Jesus has my life in HIS hands.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I have asked before , and have yet to hear from anyone of these that adhere to an, on again, off again, back on again, salvation, to name out of the dozens , a mainstream Christian denominations that clearly makes this theology foundational ?
Why would not even one mainstream Christian denomination, believe with this ?
Help me understand ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

I have asked before , and have yet to hear from anyone of these that adhere to an, on again, off again, back on again, salvation, to name out of the dozens , a mainstream Christian denominations that clearly makes this theology foundational ?
Why would not even one mainstream Christian denomination, believe with this ?
Help me understand ?

Every denomination, with doctrines that accommodate sinning, has the "revolving door" theology.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Every denomination, with doctrines that accommodate sinning, has the "revolving door" theology.

what do you call yours where salvation is lost , then regained by repenting , then lost again ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

what do you call yours where salvation is lost , then regained by repenting , then lost again ?

The Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21) has no sin accommodating doctrines.
We beleive that repentance from sin can be, and must be, permanent.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21) has no sin accommodating doctrines.
We beleive that repentance from sin can be, and must be, permanent.

"we" ?

So in your opinion the others on this thread who believe you can become unsaved, and then saved again by repenting are wrong ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

"we" ?

"We"...the church.

So in your opinion the others on this thread who believe you can become unsaved, and then saved again by repenting are wrong ?

I beleive that assigning salvation to anybody before the day of judgement is in error.
Hold fast to your first repentance from sin, and there won't be a need for any more repentances.
Lets endure faithfully until the end and see if our names are in the book of life before we make any declarations.

 

[Consecrated Life]

"We"...the church.

I beleive that assigning salvation to anybody before the day of judgement is in error.

Is there any mainstream Christian denomination you can name that believes this ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Is there any mainstream Christian denomination you can name that believes this ?

I hope all of them do.
Do you know of any that think there will be no day of judgment ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

I hope all of them do.

I don't know of one .
Why do you think that there is not a single mainstream Christian denomination you can name that believes there is no salvation before a day of judgement ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

I don't know of one .
Why do you think that there is not a single mainstream Christian denomination you can name that believes there is no salvation before a day of judgement ?

By believing they already have what we were told to endure till the end for, it accommodates their sinful lives.
There is no need to "fear God" if you believe in OSAS doctrines.