What events in the Bible did not actually occur?

[humble soul]

From what I ever learned, Job is the only book that's said to be 'fiction'

You think Jonah lived in a whale?

 

[Lilac]

You think Jonah lived in a whale?

Okay so
Jonah dwelled in the whale's tummy for 3 days because God needed to show him that He meant what he said when He told Jonah to go to Nineve. So God helped Jonah believe that this voice he heard was from God. And according to my knowledge, God is indeed a God of miracles. He holds the whole world in His hand. He created every living being. So He also has power over them, too. I mean, technically spoken, it could well be that Jonah was in the whale for three days, cause a whale is big enough for that.
Then, what about God speaking through a donkey? Yes, I believe that possible, too. Because sometimes men can be so stubborn, that He uses a donkey to make them believe again.
And why do I know God is a God of miracles? Because I know people who have miraculous stories of healing (and, in knowing them, I know that it happened).

 

[humble soul]

Spiritual truths are more important than historical facts...imo

Do we have attitudes that contradict God's mercy? Do we run from the Lord when he calls us? Do we do his will only with reluctance? The message of the book confronts us with our sinfulness as we see our own faults in Jonah's heart. Ironically, the people who really "got the message" were the sailors and Ninevites, not the prophet God sent to them

 

[GodsGrace]

I never said Jesus returned for anyone after His ascension. I said paradise in (Luke 16) is not Heaven. Thus (John 3:13) plays no role in defining (Luke 16) as a parable.

And, the point of (John 3:13) is origin. It is not saying no man is in Heaven.

I believe the story of the rich man and Lazurus in (Luke 16) is a true story and not a parable. Paradise being the abode of the righteous prior to Christ's resurrection.

You wrote much concerning the translation of of some saints and the resurrection, and transfiguration. Too much for me to be interested in responding to. But we disagree on about all of it, as we do with the end time events.

Quantrill

I do agree with what you've stated above...I also could not understand the relation of John 3:13 with Luke 16....
However, I also agree with you that it is not worth debating this, as we will all know the truth when we are returned to our
original nature, that God intended for us, and we will once again have infused knowledge. (at our death).

You have correctly stated that paradise is not heaven.
Paradise is understood to be Abraham's Bossom. (the place of comfort awaiting the cross).

 

[Quantrill]

Not sure if I get this discussion right but
I thought the bible is for instance also a book of history? It lists facts? Of course it's not only a history book for the believer, but
One can read into it, and interpret some of it, as well.
But a fact is a fact? What about the dead sea roles?
I remember a Jewish scholar. He explained the fact that Adam and Eve were the first created man and woman by God - His children. But, before this, mankind already existed. How else can we explain Genesis 4-15-17 where does Cain's wife come from? Fact is, Saul and David existed, they are historical figures. So as a believer, I do believe all those things listed in the 'Word of God, from Him, to me'. From what I ever learned, Job is the only book that's said to be 'fiction', showing us how to keep the faith even when everything and everyone in life can be against oneself.

I do believe you understand the discussion correctly. It basically boils down to whether or not one believes the Bible.

I do not see any mankind prior to Adam and Eve.

Nor do I see the book of Job as fiction. I believe it all occurred just as it describes.

Pleasure meeting you.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

I do agree with what you've stated above...I also could not understand the relation of John 3:13 with Luke 16....
However, I also agree with you that it is not worth debating this, as we will all know the truth when we are returned to our
original nature, that God intended for us, and we will once again have infused knowledge. (at our death).

You have correctly stated that paradise is not heaven.
Paradise is understood to be Abraham's Bossom. (the place of comfort awaiting the cross).

Concerning (John 3:13) I believe it speaks to origin. Our origin is from Heaven. God didn't start to know us when we were born here on earth. He is God. He has known us.....shall I say it,....forever. (Prov. 8:22-31)

Quantrill

 

[GodsGrace]

Concerning (John 3:13) I believe it speaks to origin. Our origin is from Heaven. God didn't start to know us when we were born here on earth. He is God. He has known us.....shall I say it,....forever. (Prov. 8:22-31)

Quantrill

Interesting. But it presents some problems.
For instance ,, were only the saved in heaven or everyone.

If only the saved, then are we predestined to salvation?

 

[Tessa]

Not sure if I get this discussion right but
I thought the bible is for instance also a book of history? It lists facts? Of course it's not only a history book for the believer, but
One can read into it, and interpret some of it, as well.
But a fact is a fact? What about the dead sea roles?
I remember a Jewish scholar. He explained the fact that Adam and Eve were the first created man and woman by God - His children. But, before this, mankind already existed. How else can we explain Genesis 4-15-17 where does Cain's wife come from? Fact is, Saul and David existed, they are historical figures. So as a believer, I do believe all those things listed in the 'Word of God, from Him, to me'. From what I ever learned, Job is the only book that's said to be 'fiction', showing us how to keep the faith even when everything and everyone in life can be against oneself.

I don't think there are any mankind before Adam. Adam was created on the 6th day- the first human in creation.
In Genesis 3:20 we are told Adam called his wife Eve because she was the mother of all living.
We don't know who Cain's wife was, or if anyone went with him to the land of Nod. We don't know how many children Adam and Eve had. Cain's wife could very well have been a sister. Marrying a sibling was not forbidden until Leviticus.

 

[humble soul]

It basically boils down to whether or not one believes the Bible.

The Bible is only part history book. It's mainly a group of sacred documents expounding spiritual truths. These are expounded in stories, satires, metaphors, figures of speech, myth mixed with fact. The listener's and reader's attention is more easily focussed on well told stories. Myths capture our imagination.

 

[ezrider]

I don't think there are any mankind before Adam. Adam was created on the 6th day- the first human in creation.
In Genesis 3:20 we are told Adam called his wife Eve because she was the mother of all living.

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


On the 6th day, both male and female were created. Eve on the other hand, was taken from Adam and formed.

Adam was created a Son of God, just as Jesus was created a Son of God. The First man Adam, the Last man Adam.
The Church is symbolic of Eve. She is the Bride of Christ. She was created by Him, and She was taken from Him, as She is of Him.

The Church, the Bride of Christ, just like Eve, is still tempted by the fruit of the book (tree) of the knowledge of good and evil. In her innocence she still thinks it a fruit to make one wise. Adam fell to this temptation. Jesus overcame it.


And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground,
and thy speech shall be low out of the dust,
and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground,
and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

 

[ezrider]

duplicate ?

 

[for_his_glory]

I never said Jesus returned for anyone after His ascension. I said paradise in (Luke 16) is not Heaven. Thus (John 3:13) plays no role in defining (Luke 16) as a parable.

And, the point of (John 3:13) is origin. It is not saying no man is in Heaven.

I believe the story of the rich man and Lazurus in (Luke 16) is a true story and not a parable. Paradise being the abode of the righteous prior to Christ's resurrection.

You wrote much concerning the translation of of some saints and the resurrection, and transfiguration. Too much for me to be interested in responding to. But we disagree on about all of it, as we do with the end time events.

Quantrill

You are a Dispensationalist so naturally we are not going to always agree.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. The only thing that returns back to God when we physically die is the very breath He breathed in us that makes us a living soul. I see paradise as being a place with Christ in the third heaven like that of the thief on the cross in whom at the end of his life believed in Jesus for who He said He was and because of his belief Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise, Luke 23:39-43.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[Quantrill]

Interesting. But it presents some problems.
For instance ,, were only the saved in heaven or everyone.

If only the saved, then are we predestined to salvation?

Yes, it is my opinion, concerning (Pro. 8:31) we were there in the Mind, Spirit, Loins of God, even though we had not yet been born.

Yes, these are the elect, the only ones in whom God delighted in, in (Prov. 8:31). They are the ones who are literally of Him. Of God. God knew who we were though we had not yet come into existence. They/we are those born from above. (John 3:3) Our origin is right, giving us the ability to 'see' the Kingdom. Thus we can 'enter' the Kingdom. (John 3:5).

Adam and Eve were the first two of these. When Adam fell, all of us who are of God, fell also. Thus we were 'lost'. We were lost only because we were originally God's possession. Only those who are from 'above' are those that are lost. And Jesus came to save that which was lost. (Luke 19:10)

What of all those others who reject God and Christ? They were never of God. They were never from above. They were never God's possession. They were never lost. They are from beneath. They are of this world. (John 8:23) They are of their father, the devil. (John 8:44,47)

When Adam and Eve fell not only did those of God fall, but another 'seed line' was introduced into the human race that is not of God. (Gen. 3:15) And these are those I just described in the preceding paragraph. Because Jesus is the God/Man, He could recognize them. (John 8:23) (John 8:41-42) (John 8:44,47) And note the order Christ gives concerning these for belief unto salvation. (John 10:26) "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you."

Christ didn't say if you would believe you would become my sheep. He said because you are not of my sheep, you don't believe. Their origin was wrong and dictated their unbelief.

Understand, you and I don't know who are of God and who are not. Thus we witness to all. We witness to bring the Truth and Light to the lost. The worldling hears our message and scoffs. But the one who is lost, though he doesn't know all this, it resonates with him. He is of God. His Father is calling. He can hear Him.

More can be said but I think this explains what I mean.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

The Bible is only part history book. It's mainly a group of sacred documents expounding spiritual truths. These are expounded in stories, satires, metaphors, figures of speech, myth mixed with fact. The listener's and reader's attention is more easily focussed on well told stories. Myths capture our imagination.

There is no 'myth mixed with fact' in the Bible.

No, myths capture 'your' imagination and unbelief.

Metaphors are used in the Bible. That doesn't make the stories, the history, a metaphor. An allegory can be used in the Bible. But the allegory is based upon a true historical event and speaks to a real spiritual truth.

The Bible is a Book of Redemption. It is God revealing to man His work, and supplying man what he needs spiritually in this life. But when it touches on history, or science, or whatever, it does so with equal infallibility.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

You are a Dispensationalist so naturally we are not going to always agree.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. The only thing that returns back to God when we physically die is the very breath He breathed in us that makes us a living soul. I see paradise as being a place with Christ in the third heaven like that of the thief on the cross in whom at the end of his life believed in Jesus for who He said He was and because of his belief Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise, Luke 23:39-43.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Yes, that is true.

I do disagree with you concerning the resurrection. Jesus did ascend as a Man into Heaven. Flesh and bone, with the same physical Body He died in.

And we too will get our same physical body resurrected and glorified. If i'ts not the same body, it is not a resurrection.

I think we have had this discussion before.

Quantrill

 

[humble soul]

There is no 'myth mixed with fact' in the Bible.

No, myths capture 'your' imagination and unbelief.

Metaphors are used in the Bible. That doesn't make the stories, the history, a metaphor. An allegory can be used in the Bible. But the allegory is based upon a true historical event and speaks to a real spiritual truth.

The Bible is a Book of Redemption. It is God revealing to man His work, and supplying man what he needs spiritually in this life. But when it touches on history, or science, or whatever, it does so with equal infallibility.

Quantrill

You are certainly entitled to your view on this Quantrill. Thanks for your input anyway.

 

[Quantrill]

You are certainly entitled to your view on this Quantrill. Thanks for your input anyway.

As you are yours.

Quantrill

 

[Lilac]

Do we have attitudes that contradict God's mercy? Do we run from the Lord when he calls us? Do we do his will only with reluctance?

? yes. sometimes

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, it is my opinion, concerning (Pro. 8:31) we were there in the Mind, Spirit, Loins of God, even though we had not yet been born.

Agreed, of course. Scripture plainly says so.

Yes, these are the elect, the only ones in whom God delighted in, in (Prov. 8:31). They are the ones who are literally of Him. Of God. God knew who we were though we had not yet come into existence. They/we are those born from above. (John 3:3) Our origin is right, giving us the ability to 'see' the Kingdom. Thus we can 'enter' the Kingdom. (John 3:5).

So are you of the reformed belief system?

Adam and Eve were the first two of these. When Adam fell, all of us who are of God, fell also. Thus we were 'lost'. We were lost only because we were originally God's possession. Only those who are from 'above' are those that are lost. And Jesus came to save that which was lost. (Luke 19:10)

Don't you believe all of humanity fell?


1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Isaiah 53:6
All of us like sheep have gone astray,

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men,

What of all those others who reject God and Christ? They were never of God. They were never from above. They were never God's possession. They were never lost. They are from beneath. They are of this world. (John 8:23) They are of their father, the devil. (John 8:44,47)

John 8:23
23And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.

Jesus was simply saying that He was the only person that came from heaven.
He was begotten,,,not made. Jesus was part of the Trinity even before He was born as a human person.

We, instead are born here on earth of our earthly mother and father.
God knew us but we were not created till our parents "created" us.

When Adam and Eve fell not only did those of God fall, but another 'seed line' was introduced into the human race that is not of God. (Gen. 3:15) And these are those I just described in the preceding paragraph. Because Jesus is the God/Man, He could recognize them. (John 8:23) (John 8:41-42) (John 8:44,47) And note the order Christ gives concerning these for belief unto salvation. (John 10:26) "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you."

Christ didn't say if you would believe you would become my sheep. He said because you are not of my sheep, you don't believe. Their origin was wrong and dictated their unbelief.

Understand, you and I don't know who are of God and who are not. Thus we witness to all. We witness to bring the Truth and Light to the lost. The worldling hears our message and scoffs. But the one who is lost, though he doesn't know all this, it resonates with him. He is of God. His Father is calling. He can hear Him.

More can be said but I think this explains what I mean.

Quantrill

Quantrill,,,,
We had this conversation some time ago.
I seem to remember reading that you do NOT consider yourself of the reformed faith....a calvinist.

Therefore, you're presenting a new concept which does not seem to be correct to me.
Jesus DID say that those who believe in Him ARE His sheep.
John 3:16
WHOSOEVER believes will have eternal life.
Believes is a present tense word.
It does not say WHOEVER BELIEVED....which would necessarily have to be the past tense, if you were correct.

 

[Lilac]

I do believe you understand the discussion correctly. It basically boils down to whether or not one believes the Bible.

I do not see any mankind prior to Adam and Eve.

Nor do I see the book of Job as fiction. I believe it all occurred just as it describes.

Pleasure meeting you.

Quantrill

Likewise
I remember a physical bible study on Job quite some time ago, and would have to look for this again.