What exactly does Revelation 14 teach?

[Malachi]

Maybe you should define what you believe literal to mean. From my point of view literalism is lost once you've accepted symbolism, and the real meaning can only be arrived at by understanding how this symbolic language translates to our real world. For example, Rev 14:18 is not about literal grapes.

There's really no conflict between literalism (that events are being described as they will literally occur in the future) and the recognition that God uses metaphors and symbols where and when He chooses. They can and do exist side by side throughout Scripture. God tells us that in order to understand His Word we will need spiritual discernment (1 Cor 2:12-14), and that is what is required to sort out the symbolic from the literal. God excludes "man's wisdom" from this process.

It will be obvious to any discerning reader that God is not speaking about literal grapes in Rev 14:18. But the imagery of grapes being crushed in a winepress and releasing their "blood" is perfectly suitable to what is being described as God's literal judgment on the ungodly in a manner where about 200 miles of literal blood at the height of about 5 feet is released in this Divine "bloodbath".

 

[smaller]

But the imagery of grapes being crushed in a winepress and releasing their "blood" is perfectly suitable to what is being described as God's literal judgment on the ungodly in a manner where about 200 miles of literal blood at the height of about 5 feet is released in this Divine "bloodbath".

To think that our present age full to the brim with bloody killers of people would just be replaced by A Divine Bloody Killer who wipes out everyone? I have a hard time with that slant of understanding myself. My Killer is better than yours? Unlikely. That's a very bad example to follow for anyone. Go and do thou likewise?

Christ did not practice killing people nor did He promote that to be His Way nor is that His Promise.

There are other far more credible paths to take through Revelation. Unfortunately a literal mindset takes literal understandings directly to God killing people.

There is a promise in the Gospels. There is a promise in Revelation. That the tables will be turned on our enemies. People are not my enemies.

Understand who 'our' enemies are and the Promise will become much clearer.

 

[for_his_glory]

Can we all agree that Rev 14 is not literal? That insisting we must take Rev 14 literally is a non-starter?

So much of the literal in Rev is also likened unto many other things. reba made a point with the Lamb. We know it's not a real Lamb, but the Lamb is liken unto Jesus. The same with the seven trumpets that sound as stars falling, mountains burning, hail and fire mingled with blood we have to look deeper to see that the literal that is spoken is likened unto that of the actual the literal is speaking about.

 

[Sinthesis]

You musta missed the tough sledding part...heh heh

Nope, I took the tough sledding part literally rather than figuratively... and boy am I tired.

 

[Sinthesis]

So much of the literal in Rev is also likened unto many other things. reba made a point with the Lamb. We know it's not a real Lamb, but the Lamb is liken unto Jesus. The same with the seven trumpets that sound as stars falling, mountains burning, hail and fire mingled with blood we have to look deeper to see that the literal that is spoken is likened unto that of the actual the literal is speaking about.

Yes, that is the bible using figurative language to convey meaning. Unfortunately, the word 'literal' has become a buzzword. Insisting on a literal interpretation of the bible has become such a badge-of-honor in some Christian circles that, even when they accept that sometimes the biblical literal is likened unto the actual through the use of symbolism and metaphorical prophetic language, they continue to resist believing they hold to anything other than a literal interpretation. Yet they do, and that is good because it is the only way to understand the intended message in certain parts of the bible; Rev 14 for instance.

 

[Sinthesis]

To think that our present age full to the brim with bloody killers of people would just be replaced by A Divine Bloody Killer who wipes out everyone? I have a hard time with that slant of understanding myself. My Killer is better than yours? Unlikely. That's a very bad example to follow for anyone. Go and do thou likewise?

Christ did not practice killing people nor did He promote that to be His Way nor is that His Promise.

There are other far more credible paths to take through Revelation. Unfortunately a literal mindset takes literal understandings directly to God killing people.

There is a promise in the Gospels. There is a promise in Revelation. That the tables will be turned on our enemies. People are not my enemies.

Understand who 'our' enemies are and the Promise will become much clearer.

Even you believe that people are the tools of your enemies. God passes judgement on those who have given themselves over to be the tools of the enemy.

Heb 10:28 - He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 - Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 - For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 - It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

 

[Gregg]

6. Vision of those on earth to be subject to the wrath of God (vv 14-20)

What exactly does Rev 14 teach?

I would like to make some observations about Rev 14:20, "And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood went out of the winepress as far as the bridles of the horses, from a thousand six hundred stadia" (Rev 14:20 LITV).

1. 'a thousand six hundred stadia' [about translated 200 miles]: it is1600 stadia between the statue of Freedom on the Capitol dome in Washington D.C. and the Statue of Liberty in NYC.
2. the address of the Whitehouse in 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

I am convinced many of our civil forefathers designed this to be a blashphemy against God and Christ, a taunt daring the LORD to bring destruction against Antichrist's kingdom.

 

[reba]

Literal? folks say i read The Revelation literally as if they have the key yet most who claim such literalism come up short in the first 3 verses ......

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

 

[Malachi]

Literal? folks say i read The Revelation literally as if they have the key yet most who claim such literalism come up short in the first 3 verses ......

Reba,

"The things which must shortly come to pass" were (1) the messages to the 7 churches and (2) the visions seen by John. That happened almost immediately.

"For the time is at hand" meant that the prophecies recorded began to be fulfilled shortly thereafter, but all have not as yet been fulfilled, and the visions regarding the Day of the Lord are yet to be fulfilled.

Wars, famines, pestilences and earthquakes (Mt 24:7), which were "the beginning of sorrows" (corresponding to the first 4 seals) began then and have continued to this day. Under the Roman Catholic Church, the martyrdom of the saints (5th seal) was accomplished in a large measure, and continues to this day under Islam and other regimes. So a considerable part of those prophecies has been experienced by humanity already. Thus literalism has been vindicated.

In the future (6th and 7th seals), there were be a literal Day of the Lord, corresponding to the Great Tribulation, following which there will be a literal Battle of Armageddon, a literal Second Coming of Christ, and then a literal Millenium. Everything after the Millenium will also be literally fulfilled. God uses symbols and metaphors to help us understand these literal realities.

 

[n2thelight]

Can we all agree that Rev 14 is not literal? That insisting we must take Rev 14 literally is a non-starter?

Are not the symbols explained as to what they are,concerning the meaning?

Example

Revelation 14:2 "And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:"

We should know that the waters represents people

Revelation 17:7 "And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."

Revelation 17:15 "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

In other words the Book reveals itself within the symbols,if you have eyes to see

 

[smaller]

Are not the symbols explained as to what they are,concerning the meaning?

Example

Revelation 14:2 "And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:"

We should know that the waters represents people

Revelation 17:7 "And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."

Revelation 17:15 "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

In other words the Book reveals itself within the symbols,if you have eyes to see

Excellent. I've made the same observation here many times. It's only odd when people don't see it. Then you begin to understand the workings of such mysteries and yes, they are a present reality.

There are some deeper queries that can be made in these matters as to 'sources' and 'why's' for this matter, but the essence of breaking any symbolic construct is quite simple. It has to do with Gods Living Word, PEOPLE and the devil and his messengers in every case of symbolism/parables as found in Mark 4. What I like to call the simple code breaker of symbolic dissections. That understanding coupled with comparatives throughout the text, which are very steadily planted and delivered in the scriptures, will yield up incredible insights to every symbolic/parabolic conveyance.

Some of these parables and symbolic conveyances I've worked on and prayed over for decades before I finally understood them. And that process also mandates 'sharing' with others as God tends to distribute His Information Sharing throughout His people, basically forcing us to break The Bread of His Word so to speak, and to also distribute same. And there are vast amounts of parables and symbolic conveyances that I do not see in full. Revelation is one of them. And I say that because that is the directive of fact from Paul. That we only see in part and as through darkness. A somewhat 'cloudy' picture. There are reasons we don't see that are personal to each of us. But at the proper time everything will be revealed and unveiled.

In essence then, the book of Revelations deals with these parties primarily and foremost. Anytime these components are missing, and you can predict every time which particular parties will be missing if you look at the last component, you know that the dissections may be false.

God has also set another principle in place. If any person isolates and insulates themselves from the workings of the adversarial parties, they are merely showing they are being overlorded by same and for the most part these people will see dramatically less.

The text tends to fling itself open when we ourselves deal with the gravity of our own sin, which in fact is of the devil.

Revelation is an account of the turning of the tables against the adversarial parties which are overlapped with PEOPLE, mankind.

It's actually a very stirring promise of the ultimate Victory of God in Christ, usurping and disposing of the adversarial parties that are overlapped in this present life.

It is assuredly NOT about God meticulously killing everyone on planet earth. Though I do not discount that as being part and parcel of the final march.

The unveiling of Christ in us will come in waves and stages and of course great struggle and great tribulations because of the overlap that currently exists.

Claiming exemption is not an option. We will be the first in line if we have our own heads on straight, understanding our personal need for division.

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

 

[Sinthesis]

Are not the symbols explained as to what they are,concerning the meaning?

Example

Revelation 14:2 "And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:"

We should know that the waters represents people

Revelation 17:7 "And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."

Revelation 17:15 "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

In other words the Book reveals itself within the symbols,if you have eyes to see

Yes, but even given explanations within scripture, well meaning Christians can and do come to differing conclusions about the meanings of scripture. Christians can even change their own views over time as they mature. Our motivation plays a part in how we connect the dots we are given.

 

[Gregg]

Are not the symbols explained as to what they are,concerning the meaning?

Example

Revelation 14:2 "And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:"

We should know that the waters represents people

Revelation 17:7 "And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."

Revelation 17:15 "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

In other words the Book reveals itself within the symbols,if you have eyes to see

Some waters are seen, as you mentioned in Rev 17:7, 15; but other waters are heard, as you mentioned in Rev 14:2. I would suggest that the waters heard in Rev 14:2 do not represent people, but perhaps the word or testimony of God; such as in Rev 1:15 "and His feet like burnished brass having been fired in a furnace; and His voice as a sound of many waters;"