What if a true saint quits believing – so what?

[Windozer]

Only fellowship with the apostle's teaching is what builds the Church of God.

As opposed to fellowship with God himself? :-? We should become students of the book? :-?

 

[Free]

That is such a convenient invention of the evangelical church. It is just a way to disregard the evidence in favor of upholding a theology. It has no basis in the Word. I have unfortunately heard this statement regurgitated so many times I cannot even laugh any longer.

Isn't that the truth. It's actually one of the reasons I am seriously reconsidering my stance in Evangelicalism.

There is such a thing called false proffessors. Those who proffess Christ as their Lord...are seen to be living according to their faith and who then deny him and leave the faith. They were never saved.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

It's funny how the Scripture I gave is very clear and one has to twist it to get another meaning, such as the one above. Not only that, you have taken another verse out of context to try and prove wrong the one that I gave.

The Bible is very clear - in the end times people will leave the faith. One cannot leave something they were never a part of, not unless you want to start making up definitions of words.

The word "antiChrist" means "one who denies Christ's deity."

The word "anitChrist" literally means "opposed to Christ". That which is antiChrist will always reject the deity of Christ, but it is much more than that.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Only fellowship with the apostle's teaching is what builds the Church of God.

You will not find the complete New Testament church in any of the mainline Christian denominations.

It was lost for many years.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

That is such a convenient invention of the evangelical church. It is just a way to disregard the evidence in favor of upholding a theology. It has no basis in the Word. I have unfortunately heard this statement regurgitated so many times I cannot even laugh any longer.

Isn't that the truth. It's actually one of the reasons I am seriously reconsidering my stance in Evangelicalism.

I have spent much time and prayer over the last few months and come to the conclusion that there is not an evangelical church that upholds the Words of God and that follows the New Testament guidelines.

That is okay though as God is a good leader and shows you where He wants you.

 

[thessalonian]

Only fellowship with the apostle's teaching is what builds the Church of God.

You will not find the complete New Testament church in any of the mainline Christian denominations.

It was lost for many years.

Some verses come to mind.

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"
"those who worship MUST worship in spirit and in TRUTH"
"the gates of hell shall not prevail"

Seems like you believe these passages have gone by the wayside. I don't.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Only fellowship with the apostle's teaching is what builds the Church of God.

You will not find the complete New Testament church in any of the mainline Christian denominations.

It was lost for many years.

Some verses come to mind.

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"
"those who worship MUST worship in spirit and in TRUTH"
"the gates of hell shall not prevail"

Seems like you believe these passages have gone by the wayside. I don't.

When all is said and done, the gates of hades will not have prevailed at all. Death will be done away with and the kingdom of God will be established on the earth. And death will be destroyed. Just because much of the truth was lost for some time does not make anyone the prevailer.

 

[cj]

The word "anitChrist" literally means "opposed to Christ". That which is antiChrist will always reject the deity of Christ, but it is much more than that.

That's all very well and good,.... but pretty much useless knowledge if you don't understand what the reality of "opposed to Christ" means.

Additionally, we can argue details of what "much more than that" includes, but really, denying Christ simply means denying the incarnate God, the humanity and the divinity of God.

Christ means "annointed One" thus antichrist means "anti-annointed One".

But what does it mean to be opposed or against the annointed One?

The first thing that needs to be clear is what does annointed mean. From the scriptures we know that annointing was done with oil, and from scriptures we can also know that oil represents the Spirit.

But there is more, for in Psalms 133 we can find that annointing has to do with eternal life. Therefore we can know that the "annointed" part of the word Christ is about eternal life.

And the part concerning the "One" represents a man being sent by God.

So "annointed One" simply means the man sent by God who possesses eternal life for the salvation of men.

Therefore, to be antichrist is to be anti-eternal life for men. And the matter of eternal life for men rests upon two things..... the humanity and divinity of Jesus.


To say it is much more than that is really just to complicate things, and is something that is not necessary.


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

Only fellowship with the apostle's teaching is what builds the Church of God.

As opposed to fellowship with God himself? :-? We should become students of the book? :-?

Romans 1:1, "Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, a called apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,"

1 Corinthians 1:1, "Paul, a called apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, and Sosthenes the brother,

1 Corinthians 15:9, "For I am the least of the apostles, who am not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

2 Corinthians 1:1, "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, and Timothy the brother, to the church of God which is in Corinth, with all the saints who are in the whole of Achaia:"

Galatians 1:1, "Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),"

Ephesians 1:1, "Paul, an aapostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, to the saints who are in Ephesus and are faithful in Christ Jesus:"

Colossians 1:1, "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, and Timothy the brother,"

1 Timothy 1:1, "Paul, an aapostle of Christ Jesus according to the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,

2 Timothy 1:1, "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God according to the promise of life, which is in Christ Jesus,"

Titus 1:1, "Paul, a slave of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ according to the faith of God's chosen ones and the full knowledge of the truth, which is according to godliness,"

2 Peter 1:1, "Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have been allotted faith equally precious as ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:



Sometimes I really wonder about the level of ignorance shown in posts made.


Windozer, your comment exposes you as not really knowing just what an apostle of God is.


In love,
cj

 

[SpiritualSon]

Many folks who believe they can lose their salvation or fall away have said that since one gets saved by believing then they can quite believing down the road and lose it. Well, let’s see what saith the Lord:

2 Tim 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Here a believer quits believing and they are still saved. Why? Saints are in Christ and Christ cannot deny himself. So much for this example of unbelief creates a falling away.

Aren’t the scriptures great?

I've said it a million times - until you learn doctrinally what took place at Calvary then you will think you can lose it.

God bless

This concerns the unclean spirit coming out of a person:

When the unclean spirit goes out of a man, he walks through dry places, seeking rest, but finding none; then he saith, I will return into my house from where I went out; and when he comes and finds it empty, and swept, and garnished, then he goes away, and takes to himself seven other spirits worse than himself, and entering in they dwell there, and the latter things of the man become worse than the first Matthew 12:43-45).

"The unclean spirit going out of a man," signifies the repentance of him who is in evil; his "walking through dry places and not finding rest" signifies that to such a person, a life of good is of that quality; "the house" into which he returned, and which he found empty, swept, and garnished, signifies the man himself, and his will, as being without good. "The seven spirits" which he took to himself and with whom he returned, signify evil conjoined to good; "his state then being worse than his former," signifies profanation. This is the internal sense of these words, for the Lord spoke by correspondences. The same thing is meant by the words of the Lord to the man whom He healed in the Pool of Bethesda:
Behold, thou art made whole; sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee John 5:14.
Also by these words of the Lord:
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them John 12:40. We should hold on to that which holy in us.

Harry :fadein:

 

[BradtheImpaler]

There's nothing that stirs up the anthill quite like OSAS vs. YCLI ("you can lose it") is there? This is indicative of the type of thing that caused me to lose a lot of faith myself - that honest and fervent believers like those engaged in this thread could be so at odds in their understanding of what is certainly a most basic and crucial doctrine. That we can quote verses which support either viewpoint doesn't prove either viewpoint, but rather, only serves to suggest that maybe the scriptures do contradict each other. When I honestly evaluated the situation, I saw very little evidence that there was a unifying Spirit present among believers in general.

My point? Guys like you guys caused me to lose faith :wink:

 

[gingercat]

There's nothing that stirs up the anthill quite like OSAS vs. YCLI ("you can lose it") is there? This is indicative of the type of thing that caused me to lose a lot of faith myself - that honest and fervent believers like those engaged in this thread could be so at odds in their understanding of what is certainly a most basic and crucial doctrine. That we can quote verses which support either viewpoint doesn't prove either viewpoint, but rather, only serves to suggest that maybe the scriptures do contradict each other. When I honestly evaluated the situation, I saw very little evidence that there was a unifying Spirit present among believers in general.

My point? Guys like you guys caused me to lose faith :wink:

It is true that we have disaster in Christian communities. But it is all in the Bible prediction too.

I was not going to post anymore but I could not resist when I read your post.

I have to say sometning to you Brad, just because we Christians are not good followers of Jesus does not make Him less of God or Savior. If you make that as excuse to refuse Him, you are going to be in trouble. Yes, we will paying the price for being your stumbling block but you will not escape God's judgment either.

I hope you stop blaming disobedient Christians for not believing in Him.

You can be His follower and show us a good example as His follower. Do you know how you can do it? Start reading New Testament thoroughly and obey everything you read everyday.

May God be with you, Brad.

 

[Heidi]

Good post. We're not supposed to worship people, but only Jesus Christ and our Father in heaven. If we Christians we as perfect as our Lord, then we would be worshipped right along with him. True spiritual maturity is therefore, not beineg as perfect as our Savior, but understanding just how perfect he was and we could never be! That is humbling ourselves before him in true honesty.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

It is true that we have disaster in Christian communities. But it is all in the Bible prediction too.

I was not going to post anymore but I could not resist when I read your post.

I have to say sometning to you Brad, just because we Christians are not good followers of Jesus does not make Him less of God or Savior. If you make that as excuse to refuse Him, you are going to be in trouble. Yes, we will paying the price for being your stumbling block but you will not escape God's judgment either.

I hope you stop blaming disobedient Christians for not believing in Him

My quip was "tongue in cheek" (hence the :wink I don't blame anyone and I don't really believe I'm worse-off for not having the faith I used to. I don't believe you or I or anyone else on this forum deserves to be judged for the "crime" of being human when we can't be anything else.

You can be His follower and show us a good example as His follower. Do you know how you can do it? Start reading New Testament thoroughly and obey everything you read everyday

Been there, done that...for quite a few years. I cannot go back and pretend that I wasn't ultimately disillusioned. Whatever we believe (or don't believe) is dictated by personal experience (and how we evaluate that experience) and objective analyzation of the claims of the belief-system we are faced with. Now I'm just being "me", and though there a lot of things I'd like to see changed about myself and my circumstances there was also a lot of things I felt that way about back when I was a practicing Christian. The difference is that I no longer feel guiltyabout being me.

May God be with you, Brad

I appreciate that

 

[cj]

There's nothing that stirs up the anthill quite like OSAS vs. YCLI ("you can lose it") is there? This is indicative of the type of thing that caused me to lose a lot of faith myself - that honest and fervent believers like those engaged in this thread could be so at odds in their understanding of what is certainly a most basic and crucial doctrine. That we can quote verses which support either viewpoint doesn't prove either viewpoint, but rather, only serves to suggest that maybe the scriptures do contradict each other. When I honestly evaluated the situation, I saw very little evidence that there was a unifying Spirit present among believers in general.

My point? Guys like you guys caused me to lose faith :wink:

Praise the Lord,..... and lose more.

Paul said when he was weak God was strong.


Or in other words, just allow the God in you to trust Himself, and express His trust of Himself in earthen vessels.

Tell me, do you know of a clay jar that has faith?


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

You can be His follower and show us a good example as His follower. Do you know how you can do it? Start reading New Testament thoroughly and obey everything you read everyday.

O....boy.


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

True spiritual maturity is therefore, not beineg as perfect as our Savior, but understanding just how perfect he was and we could never be! That is humbling ourselves before him in true honesty.

And again,..... O.....boy.


In love,
cj

 

[gingercat]

Brad, I don't believe you were Christian, because if you were true Christian and did your best to follow His teachings you will start tasting what God is. And you will not go back where you were. You cannot fool anyone but yourself. God is Awesome that no one can describe. I hope you honestly start believing God instead of just playing in the Christian forum and making fun of Christianity.

 

[cj]

Been there, done that...for quite a few years. I cannot go back and pretend that I wasn't ultimately disillusioned.

Give the Lord a little more time, you will suddenly come to see that "Awakened" is the proper word to use.

Whatever we believe (or don't believe) is dictated by personal experience (and how we evaluate that experience) and objective analyzation of the claims of the belief-system we are faced with. Now I'm just being "me", and though there a lot of things I'd like to see changed about myself and my circumstances there was also a lot of things I felt that way about back when I was a practicing Christian. The difference is that I no longer feel guiltyabout being me.

Not so long ago I was taking a shower and it suddenly hit me,... God uses Satan.

Wow.

I wonder, would any here use a snake against their child to teach their him or her a lesson?

But I tell you what, as difficult as this reality is to comprehend humanly speaking, having suffered some I was open to God taking the thought further,... all the way to the point of Him showing me that He has destroyed death with death, destroyed Satan with Satan. And that in this is a very important divine principle.


In love,
cj

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Brad, I don't believe you were Christian, because if you were true Christian and did your best to follow His teachings you will start tasting what God is. And you will not go back where you were. You cannot fool anyone but yourself. God is Awesome that no one can describe. I hope you honestly start believing God instead of just playing in the Christian forum and making fun of Christianity.

What criteria would I have had to have met to prove to you that I was as much a christian as you are now?

 

[BradtheImpaler]

There's nothing that stirs up the anthill quite like OSAS vs. YCLI ("you can lose it") is there? This is indicative of the type of thing that caused me to lose a lot of faith myself - that honest and fervent believers like those engaged in this thread could be so at odds in their understanding of what is certainly a most basic and crucial doctrine. That we can quote verses which support either viewpoint doesn't prove either viewpoint, but rather, only serves to suggest that maybe the scriptures do contradict each other. When I honestly evaluated the situation, I saw very little evidence that there was a unifying Spirit present among believers in general.

My point? Guys like you guys caused me to lose faith :wink:

Praise the Lord,..... and lose more.

Paul said when he was weak God was strong.


Or in other words, just allow the God in you to trust Himself, and express His trust of Himself in earthen vessels.

Tell me, do you know of a clay jar that has faith?

This is a refreshing, CJ - I usually just expect the "you never really were a Christian in the first place" response when it comes to this subject. Have you been influenced by Norman Grubb's teachings?