What if Adam had not sinned ?

[smaller]

There is no doubt how God 'created/made' Adam from Paul:

1 Cor. 15:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.



Adam was clearly sown into ALL of the ABOVE by his Father, God.


There is no way any other result would have transpired, as in corruption, dishonour, weakness and the natural are THE FIRST in the order of His Creation.


First the Natural, then the Spiritual is a well entrenched principle in the scriptures.


1 Corinthians 15:46
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


That is how God Operates.


Why?


Paul explains this as well:


2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


God was not interested to see how much Adam could come up with or not. He was interested in dispensing GRACE, UNmerited FAVOR that comes upon THE WEAK.


The strong have no need of God, nor He of their supposed 'strength.'



enjoy!


s

 

[savedbygrace57]

iv said:

Something sinful commits sin.

Did adam commit sin ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

iv

it was the very thing that made man's nature sinful.

Thats a lie. Satan's activity enticed adam's sinful nature ! God made adam what he was, not satan. James 1:14

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

It was eve's lust to be like god. How did that lust get into her ? It was always in the flesh. The only human being whose Flesh was not sinful was Christ's..

 

[glorydaz]

He exhibited that he was malleable. He listened to the woman.

And God listens to the prayers of the man.

And, He even changes His mind.

 

[glorydaz]

I personally agree with the view here that man's nature was created corruptible but not corrupt itself. Man was not created sinful. "Sin" entered the world and corrupted man's nature to be sinful and led him to commit the first sin - this seems to keep the Group1 beliefs intact. To see only God and man in the picture and not the effects of the works of the devil is to miss a crucial part of the picture. This is the strong one who takes man as his goods - requiring a stronger One than he to bind him and to redeem man.

When Adam sinned, sin and death came into the world. The ground was cursed with thorns, and man was cursed with corruptible flesh. His body sickens and dies. That does not give man a sinful nature. It does give man great occassion to sin because sin came into the world and man resides there. Because man's spirit is cut off from God...not dead, but sleeping, he can only see God through a glass darkly. But God did not leave man without hope. He wrote His laws in our heart and exhibits His presence in all of Creation, so that man will long to search Him out.

We're weak in the flesh, but not without hope. We walk in the light we're given from the time we are born. Our conscience bears witness of God, and man has always sought Him out, hoping to reach Him. Thus the way was provided through the sending of a Saviour. I don't see that it's all that complicated. The denial of man's ability to choose to seek out a relationship with His Creator, is a denial of man being made in the image of God, and refutation of the Wisdom of God. Why would God leave mankind in such a condition that he was unable to find Him even when he sought Him with all his heart?

To even suggest that man was created with a sinful nature, as some do, is a discredit to the character of God. I'm certainly not suggesting that you say that....just in case you thought I might be.

Where is this "sin nature"? We see Eve giving credit to God for her son. We see their children making offerings to God. We see Cain being angry because his offering was not respected by God.

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

It goes on with the choice Cain had to make..."And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door."

After Cain had killed Abel, God asks, "What has thou done?" The same thing He asked Adam and Eve. Freewill is a very important part of this entire discussion. God wants us to make the right decisions. We're saved individually according to what is in our heart. Those who follow God's word in their hearts are given more light and more help from God to seek Him out. We're not depraved creatures walking the earth. We're only lost when we aren't looking.

 

[childeye]

And God listens to the prayers of the man.

And, He even changes His mind.

A thought provoking statement.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Let us Make Man in our Image !


Scripture is quite clear that Adam was made in the Image and Likeness of God Gen 1:26

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Now scripture also tells us what that Image of God is that Adam was made like unto ! Notice 2 Cor 4:4

4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

This verse tells us who it was that Adam was made in the Image of, it was Christ, who is the Image of God ! See also Col 1:15; Heb 1:3

This is confirmed also by Rom 5:14

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Now Adam is here said to be a Type of Christ, a prefigurement, a pattern.

That is as Adam was a Public Figure, representing his offspring in him at creation, so likewise, Him to come, which is Christ, was representing His Offspring, those Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4

But remember, Adam was made after His Likenss, who is the Image of God.

This reveals to us a profound mystery, that being, though the First Adam from the dust of the earth, was the first man to be manifested on earth, the Last Adam and the second Man, who is the Lord from heaven, existed before he did ! He existed as God the Eternal Word Jn 1:1 and as Christ Jesus the Mediator Man, the Son of God 1 Tim 2:5

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

As Mediator, He was the Head of His Body the Church, and it's Surety, before the world began !

Prov 8:22-31 speaking of Him says :

22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.



23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. Because He was their Mediator, and as stated in vs 23, He was set up as Mediator from Everlasting !

And it was after this Pattern that Adam from the dust was formed, So it was definitly the Triune God who said Gen 1:26

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

 

[savedbygrace57]

Eph 3:11

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

God's Eternal Purpose, for which all things were created,was not never centered in Adam, the man of the dust, but always centered in Christ Jesus, the lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain[By Eternal Purpose] from the foundation of the world.

Paul writes in Eph 1:9-10

9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

When God created Adam, it was in pursuance of an Eternal Purpose centered in Christ that would that would unite all things in Christ, for this purpose was the occasion of all human history, to include the nation of israel. God's purpose did not at anytime predict an earthly jewish theocracy that would be the headquarters of world power, thats a jewish fable; Also it was never God's intention for man to live in Blessedness and Eternal bliss premised on Adam a man of the dust. Adam was made a weak, fallible and corruptible man, in pursuance of the Eternal Redemptive purpose in Christ, if we do not see that by now, then we are blind to the truth !

 

[LightningStrikeSurvivor]

I'm sure someone would have eventually sinned, given our nature. Probably sooner rather than later.

By that logic, we are who we are intended to be: sinners. God gave us our nature when he created us.

So in that case, why all the suffering over the sinful nature which god gave us?

 

[savedbygrace57]

1 Cor 15:46

At best Adam was a Natural Man, even before he sinned 1 Cor 15:46

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. Adam was not spiritual ! One thing the natural man cannot do is fulfill God's Law, because the Law is Spiritual Rom 7:14

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Now at Creation, Adam being a natural man and in the best suitable environment and circumstances, even in a innocent natural creature nature, when put to the test, validated that the natural man, even in his best state could not keep the Law of God. God's Law can be summed up in Two Commandments Matt 22:37-40

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


When put to the test, the enmity of the natural mind against God was made manifest and was proved that it cannot please God or be subject to God ! Rom 8:7

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Oh yes, Adam and Eve appeared at first to be subject to God, but when time to prove it arrived, we find that they were not. Adam and Eve should have Loved God with all their heart, soul and mind . They could not do that ! The Lord Jesus Christ during His Temptation showed what it is to Love God the way God required of man !

God created Adam a natural Man and knew that Adam did not have the ability to be subject to His Law. God created him without that ability !

 

[childeye]

1 Cor 15:46

At best Adam was a Natural Man, even before he sinned 1 Cor 15:46

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. Adam was not spiritual ! One thing the natural man cannot do is fulfill God's Law, because the Law is Spiritual Rom 7:14

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Now at Creation, Adam being a natural man and in the best suitable environment and circumstances, even in a innocent natural creature nature, when put to the test, validated that the natural man, even in his best state could not keep the Law of God. God's Law can be summed up in Two Commandments Matt 22:37-40

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


When put to the test, the enmity of the natural mind against God was made manifest and was proved that it cannot please God or be subject to God ! Rom 8:7

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Oh yes, Adam and Eve appeared at first to be subject to God, but when time to prove it arrived, we find that they were not. Adam and Eve should have Loved God with all their heart, soul and mind . They could not do that ! The Lord Jesus Christ during His Temptation showed what it is to Love God the way God required of man !

God created Adam a natural Man and knew that Adam did not have the ability to be subject to His Law. God created him without that ability !

The question posed at the outset is meant to explore a line of reasoning. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Answer; because the natural man is where God planned to sow the incorruptible seed.

 

[thethinkingrebel]

He already had eternal life. He gave it up when he sinned. Had he not sinned he never would have died.

 

[savedbygrace57]

He already had eternal life.

No he did not. Eternal life cannot be given up, its Eternal !

 

[savedbygrace57]

A Figure of Him to Come !

Rom 5:14

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Adam was afigure of Him to come, that being Christ. Now Adam at Creation was both Head and Husband, so likewise was Christ at His Coming was both Head and Husband, He had a Bride !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Gen 1:31

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

God pronounced Adam Good, yea very Good, in that God created him suitable to the Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11. God made him to sin by the Temptation of the Devil through Eve His Wife, so that He would bring forth the Vessels of Mercy in flesh and Blood. This was a major part in God preparing them for Glory, that Christ was to bare their sins on the Tree 1 Pet 2:24

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

This is also why God is the Causative Author of sin coming into the World, for Christ's Sake !

 

[John O]

Adam was perfect but not yet mature. This means that while he was created in the image of God he was not yet in the likeness of God. Just as the seed has the DNA of the whole mature plant/tree Adam had all that he needed to be like God.

It is only as his character was transformed would he be like God, however as we know during the character development process Satan was able to get to Adam through his wife and Adam chose her over God (his character had not yet reached the maturity level that he felt he could trust God for a solution because he didn't want to lose Eve even though she had just chose to separate herself from God.)

This is all however semantic as He did sin and we all have had to pay the price.

I have a question how does this question benefit us on our journey with Christ? Is this question about Adam of no more value to us than Why did the chicken cross the road?

 

[MaxTO]

What if Adam had of admitted his sin and asked for forgiveness , rather than blame Eve , the women that you (God) gave me ?

If Adam admitted his sin rather than blame Eve and imply that God too was also to blame for " giving him that women " , thing too may have been very different for us all .

Remember the punishment was handed out after Adams response .

 

[tessiewebb]

Amazing posts here. Thoughtful and intense. And amazingly enough, this very morning before coming on the forum, I was considering before the Lord how it was that the Fall occurred and what it means that it did. Thinking of how God said after they ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, "they have become as one of us". Clearly God meant that they had acquired the knowledge of that tree.

They "ate" the outcome of it in the sense that they became conscious of wrong doing. Since they were created in His image, this has to mean God has awareness of good and evil. Not a big surprise maybe but consider what happened when Adam and Eve became conscious of good and evil: They realized they were naked. They hid.They tried to clothe themselves.

By His mercy, He clothed them, creating the first blood sacrifice Himself. Death is brought into being. Death of the animals to clothe them, later death for themselves. The big mystery is why did becoming conscious of good and evil produce death in mankind? What is it about consciousness of sin that kills?

It's impossible to think that God meant to hunt them down in later life and kill them because they had sinned. He could have done it the very day they ate of that tree if it was His wish that they die. Had they not eaten, they would have lived forever apparently and not only them but their descendants.

If Adam had eaten first of the tree of life, would the outcome have been different? If he had eaten from the Life of that tree and the knowledge of good and evil, what would life be like for us all?

 

[savedbygrace57]

In the beginning, Adam did not possess Eternal Life, but he had a natural created life; For Eternal Life does not and cannot die, for the scripture Testimony is 1 Jn 5:11

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

It , Eternal Life, always was in God's Son, Jesus Christ, The Word of Life, and with the Father 1 Jn 1:1-2

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us )

Eternal Life was never in Adam, it was in the beginning before Adam was created, in Christ the Mediatoral Head of the Election of Grace. The breath that God blew into Adam's nostrils, did not give him Eternal Life, but man became a living soul ! Gen 2:7.

Eternal Life was promised in Christ before the world began Titus 1:1-2


Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

 

[John O]

No he did not. Eternal life cannot be given up, its Eternal !

Once again you take the scripture and interpret according to savedbygrace.

God made Adam perfect but in nature but immature in the character of God. God made Adam in His image and He gave Adam the ability to choose, just as God can choose. Your arguments leave us with the impression that God Himself can not make choices.

John O