What Is Christianity?

[Free]

It's all in how one interprets the term religion. That is why there is controversy.

There are acceptable definitions of religion but those who don't think Christianity is a religion are redefining it to exclude Christianity and then concluding that Christianity is not a religion.

 

[th1b.taylor]

People are self-righteous regardless of whether or not they consider themselves religious; that has nothing to do with whether or not Christianity is a religion. The Bible clearly teaches that there is bad, empty, hypocritical religion, but also that there is good, acceptable religion:

26 If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.
27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world. (ESV)

For some reason, those who deny Christianity is a religion want to ignore the greater context of the rest of Scripture and focus only on the Jews of Jesus' day, as though that is all the Bible has to say (not that that answers the question anyway).

I haven't ever denied there are religious Chrisitans because there are many, many of them.. too many. And just as the twelve tribes of Israel perverted their relationship,, their walk with God, into a religion, in their persuit to be more like the World, so has the Christian Community. The trouble is, religion has never been what God wants from us.

You made a statement that reflected, directly, against what I had said and not seeking to prove anything, I replied with the, infered, sought after answer because I did not take it to be an intentional insult. If you think to force me into a corner, nah, I'm not going to fall into that trap. I have nothing to prove, I tried to explain but you seem to have lost it here and this is a good place to let it be.

 

[th1b.taylor]

There are acceptable definitions of religion but those who don't think Christianity is a religion are redefining it to exclude Christianity and then concluding that Christianity is not a religion.

Not at all but you're mad so later.

 

[Free]

Not at all but you're mad so later.

I'm not mad at all.

 

[Free]

I haven't ever denied there are religious Chrisitans because there are many, many of them.. too many.

I never said you were denying anything.

And just as the twelve tribes of Israel perverted their relationship,, their walk with God, into a religion, in their persuit to be more like the World, so has the Christian Community. The trouble is, religion has never been what God wants from us.

That isn't the case at all. God Himself was the one that gave the Israelites the commandments and the law, all their religious beliefs and practices--their religion. Those things were what was to guide their relationship with God. Sin is what kept separating them from God, not the religion He gave them.

You made a statement that reflected, directly, against what I had said and not seeking to prove anything, I replied with the, infered, sought after answer because I did not take it to be an intentional insult. If you think to force me into a corner, nah, I'm not going to fall into that trap.

I don't know what you're talking about.

I have nothing to prove, I tried to explain but you seem to have lost it here and this is a good place to let it be.

What do you mean, "lost it"? Just because I disagree with you, I've lost it? You don't seem to like it when people disagree with you; you get very defensive and read way too much into things. Why is that?

 

[sojourner4Christ]

James 1:27, "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

 

[childeye]

There are acceptable definitions of religion but those who don't think Christianity is a religion are redefining it to exclude Christianity and then concluding that Christianity is not a religion.

Many words have more than one meaning and the same word can carry both positive and negative connotations. I believe Satan uses semantic confusion to cause division.
Zephaniah 3:9
For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.

 

[th1b.taylor]

That isn't the case at all. God Himself was the one that gave the Israelites the commandments and the law, all their religious beliefs and practices--their religion. Those things were what was to guide their relationship with God. Sin is what kept separating them from God, not the religion He gave them.

The Ten Commandments were not and honestly, are not, a religion established until the Self Righteous began parading their virtues. The Ten Commandments were their teacher and they are our teacher of how to walk with God. God has never been deluded, so as to think anyone could ever be as good as He is and the Ten Commandments are as we, if we follow Jesus, must, not should, but must strive for. Ever failing, ever striving to grow to be.

 

[th1b.taylor]

James 1:27, "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

Yes, it has nothing to do with Sunday Meeting.

 

[WIP]

I realize the topic of this thread is not really apologetic in nature but more toward a theology discussion. For this reason I have been a lenient in enforcing the forum guidelines. When personal opinions begin to overtake a discussion thread things can rapidly go downhill so I will ask that we try to use scripture to support what we write as much as possible. In that way Scripture is the dividing force and not human understanding.

Thanks.

 

[Malachi]

It's all in how one interprets the term religion. That is why there is controversy.

You will note in the New Testament that Paul speaks of "the Jews religion" and "our religion" (Gal 1:13,14; Acts 26:5) to distinguish it from Bible Christianity (a relationship with Christ), and James talks about a man seeming to be religious but his religion is vain if he cannot control his tongue (Jas 1:26).

It is clear from these references that religion as seen through the eyes of the apostles was man's efforts to be pious or appear to be pious. "Religion" worldwide is associated with (generally well-meaning) man-made attempts to be righteous and perfect. Thus Catholicism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, etc. are all religions and are all very similar -- rites and rituals and rosaries and incense etc. The Pharisees were extremely religious, and so are Orthodox Jews to this day. But religion does not guarantee eternal life.

However, when we see from the NT what makes a man right with God, and when we understand that it is purely and solely on the merits of Christ's finished work of redemption that God accepts a sinner, then religion is utterly useless and totally worthless.

Hence it is important that genuine Christians insist that Bible Christianity is NOT a religion but a relationship. It is Christ in you, the hope of glory. It is a living relationship with the Godhead through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit and the indwelling Christ. Therefore Christians are called "the temple of God".

 

[th1b.taylor]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

You will note in the New Testament that Paul speaks of "the Jews religion" and "our religion" (Gal 1:13,14; Acts 26:5) to distinguish it from Bible Christianity (a relationship with Christ), and James talks about a man seeming to be religious but his religion is vain if he cannot control his tongue (Jas 1:26).

It is clear from these references that religion as seen through the eyes of the apostles was man's efforts to be pious or appear to be pious. "Religion" worldwide is associated with (generally well-meaning) man-made attempts to be righteous and perfect. Thus Catholicism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, etc. are all religions and are all very similar -- rites and rituals and rosaries and incense etc. The Pharisees were extremely religious, and so are Orthodox Jews to this day. But religion does not guarantee eternal life.

However, when we see from the NT what makes a man right with God, and when we understand that it is purely and solely on the merits of Christ's finished work of redemption that God accepts a sinner, then religion is utterly useless and totally worthless.

Hence it is important that genuine Christians insist that Bible Christianity is NOT a religion but a relationship. It is Christ in you, the hope of glory. It is a living relationship with the Godhead through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit and the indwelling Christ. Therefore Christians are called "the temple of God".

Very well stated Brother, this further sets in place my use of Genesis 1-3 and Matt. 18:11. When I was an Atheist I was stunned that God would, even, approach me. I was not just lost, I was leading as many as I could gather away fro Him. I was very religious about never subscribing to any Religion.

Today my religion is Baptist Flavored but is not my controler, if it were I would, like many Baptists, be a Five Point, Hyper Calvinist. But my, on going, relationship with Christ, through the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, has me placed in the very slim Biblicist's position. I was busy walking away and God came after me.

 

[childeye]

Addressing the two prior posts by Malachi and th1btaylor. Peace be unto you both my brothers. I love you both and read your posts with sincere anticipation of good things.

If you note in post #107, I have said that one word can carry both positive and negative connotations. I am therefore neither for or against the term religion, but rather I seek to understand the sentiments of the person using the term. If I receive the person according to any bias of the term religion, then I am not going to hear and understand their sentiments. I do not wish to make the mistake of concluding their expressed intentions as unenlightened because of my bigoted definition of one single word. This is not in keeping with Love others as I would want to be loved. Romans 14:1.

I feel that God reminds me that the term religion in scripture is the product of translation. The original word that was translated could very well mean such things as worship, faith, duty, etc...The etymology of the word religion has been argued over probably since it was first applied. No one except the original inventor knows what he meant by it for certain. It most likely simply means a common belief that binds the believers together. But even that is debatable. I am aware that many discussions I see on this forum are actually discussions about the meanings of terms. I also marvel at how easily we become offended as we seem to think our personal beliefs are being attacked when in fact both sides are in agreement, we just say it differently.

Having said that, I will also say this. I don't like confusion. I detest division and will fight against it. I do not like the term religion being conflated with the term God. Any premise that allows God to be considered as an invention of mankind I am opposed to. Hence the Christ is the True Image of God sent by God and not imagined by men. John 3:34-35.

 

[Free]

You will note in the New Testament that Paul speaks of "the Jews religion" and "our religion" (Gal 1:13,14; Acts 26:5) to distinguish it from Bible Christianity (a relationship with Christ), and James talks about a man seeming to be religious but his religion is vain if he cannot control his tongue (Jas 1:26).

It is clear from these references that religion as seen through the eyes of the apostles was man's efforts to be pious or appear to be pious.

Only if one reads a preconceived idea of what religion means into the text. As I stated previously, it was God Himself that gave the Jews their religion. Hence references to "religion," such as those in Gal 1, could simply be Paul distinguishing the Jews' religion from the religion of the followers of Christ. And as I pointed out, James says there is religion that is favorable.

"Religion" worldwide is associated with (generally well-meaning) man-made attempts to be righteous and perfect. Thus Catholicism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, etc. are all religions and are all very similar -- rites and rituals and rosaries and incense etc. The Pharisees were extremely religious, and so are Orthodox Jews to this day. But religion does not guarantee eternal life.

However, when we see from the NT what makes a man right with God, and when we understand that it is purely and solely on the merits of Christ's finished work of redemption that God accepts a sinner, then religion is utterly useless and totally worthless.

Hence it is important that genuine Christians insist that Bible Christianity is NOT a religion but a relationship. It is Christ in you, the hope of glory. It is a living relationship with the Godhead through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit and the indwelling Christ. Therefore Christians are called "the temple of God".

None of this shows that Christianity isn't a religion. This is, once again, the very circular claim that I have pointed out previously--religion has been redefined in such a way as to preclude Christianity, and then used as proof to show that Christianity isn't a religion. It's an error in reasoning.

Christianity is a religion in which one of the beliefs is that its adherents have a relationship with God. It is erroneous to pit religion and relationship against each other as though they are mutually exclusive.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Addressing the two prior posts by Malachi and th1btaylor. Peace be unto you both my brothers. I love you both and read your posts with sincere anticipation of good things.

If you note in post #107, I have said that one word can carry both positive and negative connotations. I am therefore neither for or against the term religion, but rather I seek to understand the sentiments of the person using the term. If I receive the person according to any bias of the term religion, then I am not going to hear and understand their sentiments. I do not wish to make the mistake of concluding their expressed intentions as unenlightened because of my bigoted definition of one single word. This is not in keeping with Love others as I would want to be loved. Romans 14:1.

I feel that God reminds me that the term religion in scripture is the product of translation. The original word that was translated could very well mean such things as worship, faith, duty, etc...The etymology of the word religion has been argued over probably since it was first applied. No one except the original inventor knows what he meant by it for certain. It most likely simply means a common belief that binds the believers together. But even that is debatable. I am aware that many discussions I see on this forum are actually discussions about the meanings of terms. I also marvel at how easily we become offended as we seem to think our personal beliefs are being attacked when in fact both sides are in agreement, we just say it differently.

Having said that, I will also say this. I don't like confusion. I detest division and will fight against it. I do not like the term religion being conflated with the term God. Any premise that allows God to be considered as an invention of mankind I am opposed to. Hence the Christ is the True Image of God sent by God and not imagined by men. John 3:34-35.

4
The issue has become complicated for, only, one reason, human falibility. When I was younger Context was taught n the schools of this nation to every Elementry Student just as was Hand-Writting, neither of which is now taught with the Nationalized Dumbing Down Movement. It, actually, does not matter what the first person to use the word meant, nor does it matter what any dictionary, new or old, lends to us for meaning.

There are two things that matter in this case. One is the context God surrounded, or framed, the word with and the other is what the Holy Spirit has to say on the matter. Many people deny the Bible to being one book of one context but it absolutely is and thus the, in my opinion, first rule of Heremneutics; 'No scripture, collection of scriptures nor any passage of scripture can ever approach proper understanding without the light of all other scripture shinning on it/them.'

Jesus, God in the flesh of a man, said He came for what had been lost and that being the clue, we must use our God given intellect and seek what was lost. And if we read the Bible through a few timess it is clear that in the Garden Jesus lost, to Satan, through Eve, lost that walk in the cool of the day with Adam, man.

In the parables Jesus makes so many good points but if they are extracted from the chapters they are contained in, He was attempting to show us the path into Fellowship with Him on the spiritual level. And Jesus said He did not come for the Religious and there were plenty of religions in the world at that time if He wanted, what He called, religious people.

He came for men that would live every instant of every hour of every day of the rest of their lives for and with Him. And when Peter, Paul and the others founded the first Christian Churches, that was the sort of men and women filling those assemblies. The definition of Religion, understood by me or by anyone else does not matter, God has defined His intent for us.

 

[childeye]

4
The issue has become complicated for, only, one reason, human falibility. When I was younger Context was taught n the schools of this nation to every Elementry Student just as was Hand-Writting, neither of which is now taught with the Nationalized Dumbing Down Movement. It, actually, does not matter what the first person to use the word meant, nor does it matter what any dictionary, new or old, lends to us for meaning.

There are two things that matter in this case. One is the context God surrounded, or framed, the word with and the other is what the Holy Spirit has to say on the matter. Many people deny the Bible to being one book of one context but it absolutely is and thus the, in my opinion, first rule of Heremneutics; 'No scripture, collection of scriptures nor any passage of scripture can ever approach proper understanding without the light of all other scripture shinning on it/them.'

Jesus, God in the flesh of a man, said He came for what had been lost and that being the clue, we must use our God given intellect and seek what was lost. And if we read the Bible through a few timess it is clear that in the Garden Jesus lost, to Satan, through Eve, lost that walk in the cool of the day with Adam, man.

In the parables Jesus makes so many good points but if they are extracted from the chapters they are contained in, He was attempting to show us the path into Fellowship with Him on the spiritual level. And Jesus said He did not come for the Religious and there were plenty of religions in the world at that time if He wanted, what He called, religious people.

He came for men that would live every instant of every hour of every day of the rest of their lives for and with Him. And when Peter, Paul and the others founded the first Christian Churches, that was the sort of men and women filling those assemblies. The definition of Religion, understood by me or by anyone else does not matter, God has defined His intent for us.

If I were say Jesus came to end all religions, would I be wrong? If I said religion crucified the Christ, would I be wrong? I do not use the term religion in these statements as a good thing. I will say these things to those who think all religions deserve equal respect. But if someone says that Christ is the true religion, I will not argue with them for I know what they mean which is basically the same thing I mean. The ark of the covenant shows two cherubim facing one another. The Satanic altar would have two facing away from each other. Christ works both ends towards the middle. Satan works both ends against the middle.

 

[th1b.taylor]

If I were say Jesus came to end all religions, would I be wrong? If I said religion crucified the Christ, would I be wrong? I do not use the term religion in these statements as a good thing. I will say these things to those who think all religions deserve equal respect. But if someone says that Christ is the true religion, I will not argue with them for I know what they mean which is basically the same thing I mean. The ark of the covenant shows two cherubim facing one another. The Satanic altar has two facing away from each other. Christ works both ends towards the middle. Satan works both ends against the middle.

And your statement here is correct but you have defined the word by imparting a used definition for it. the word, religion, can mean many things, all the way down to being a religious drunk. The alcholic's religion is in the bottle. Your message here compliments what I have said and doies nothing, much, to disagree.

 

[childeye]

And your statement here is correct but you have defined the word by imparting a used definition for it. the word, religion, can mean many things, all the way down to being a religious drunk. The alcholic's religion is in the bottle. Your message here compliments what I have said and doies nothing, much, to disagree.

I never said I disagree with you, nor with Free. You both are forthright as far as I can tell. I just don't like to see division over semantics.

 

[Malachi]

As I stated previously, it was God Himself that gave the Jews their religion.

Actually God did NOT give the Jews (Israel) a religion. According to Christ, as well as according to the understanding of perceptive rabbis, the two greatest commandments were (1) to love God with one's whole being and (2) to love one's neighbor as oneself. Both are found in Deuteronomy and confirmed to be the essence of Christianity in the NT.

It is the scribes and Pharisees who made their relationship with God into a religion of rites and rituals and nit-picking observances, which are presently enshrined in the Talmud. So Rabbinic Judaism today is a religion (just like Catholicism, Hinduism, Islam, and Buddhism) whereas Bible Christianity is an intimate relationship with Christ (Rev 3:20): Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I never said I disagree with you, nor with Free. You both are forthright as far as I can tell. I just don't like to see division over semantics.

Nor do I. I prefer to agree to disagree but as I mature I am trying not to let things get hot, Bill Taylor, on his own is not very smart.