Sorry mondar, I shouldn't have asked you that last question, it too far off the topic. So just ignore it, please.
But please address the first question in my post to you.
"Let me see if I understand you correctly.
Because verse 20, says certain Greeks had gone to the temple, not all Greeks, that means in verse 32, Jesus doesn't mean all men, just certain men?"
I think that is a very weak argument.
Well Deborah, the word "all" is often a major hang up. Some people require any passage with the word "all" in it to refer to all men everywhere at all times. So many assume that they do not have to demonstrate the meaning of the term by the context and that they can assume that the word "all" means all men everywhere.
One correction on how you understand me... I do not think I would lay so much stress on the the word "certain Greeks" in verse 20. The issue there is not that there are "certain" kinds of men, as much as that there are different "kinds of men." These Greeks that approached Andrew were different kinds of men and as Greeks, they are introducing a Jew vs Gentiles issue into the context. In verse 21-22, Andrew and Philip approach Jesus and report that some Greeks want to speak to him. Please read that context, I am not going to post it. Notice then in verse 23 to 32 Jesus gives a speech on "the hour has come." At first reading it might seem strange that there is no answer given to the Greeks that approached Andrew. Yet, I believe that is exactly what Jesus is doing in verse 32. He is giving his answer to the Jew vs Gentile question. He says he will draw "all" or all kinds of men, both Greek and Jew. In John 12:32, I do not see the drawing as something ineffectual, but again it is powerful and saves all whom are drawn. If each and every Jew and each and every Greek (or Gentile) is drawn, then we have a doctrine called universalism. Everyone everywhere is saved.
Deborah, lets talk about the use of the term "all" a little bit. In Luke 2:1 the decree went out for "all" the word to be taxed. Of course this was not speaking of each and every person that every lived anywhere. The word "all" in Luke 2:1 speaks of taxable people in the Romans empire. Actually the Chinese did not pay any taxes to Caesar. Neither did the Mayans, or the some of the free German tribes. In Matthew and Mark, it speaks of "all" Jerusalem, Judea, and the region around the Jordan came to hear John preach. Does this mean that Jerusalem and Judea were empty? No babies, not decrepit old people? The Roman legions left their posts? I could go to many many passages and demonstrate that the term "all" regularly does not refer to all men everywhere at all times.
So then, I would not read John 12:32 as if the text identifies "certain men" for salvation, but rather it identifies "all kinds of men," both Greek (Gentile) and Jew.
There are many other passage with the word "all" in them that are a part of this issue. Passages like 1 Tim 2:4 and 6, Hebrews 2:9, and many others. Then there is also the word "world." Then there is the word "whosoever." Then there are passages like John 6, Romans 9, and many others. I used to quote 1 John 2:2 myself against Calvinists myself.
By the way, I appreciate your statement earlier in the thread on Hyper Calvinism.
