What is the point of the New Testament?

[Jethro Bodine]

"Jesus teaches almost the exact opposite of the laws in the OT."?

No.

When you think of the OT, think of fulfillment of the law, not the destruction of the law.

 

[THINK!]

For example, the law stated a sacrifice for each sin.
Jesus provided the foretold sacrifice.

 

[RLKIII]

Dorothy, how am I to have all the names? Sorry, but that's a ridiculous request.

What I CAN tell you is that studies regarding teen suicide ideation was 45% in 2022 alone. That's nearly 1 in 5 transgender and nonbinary youth attempted suicide and LGBTQ youth of color reported higher rates than their white peers.

According to one survey alone, nearly 34,000 LGBTQ youth ages 13 to 24 across the United States, with 45% of respondents being LGBTQ youth of color and 48% being transgender or nonbinary, our fourth annual national survey is one of the most diverse surveys of LGBTQ youth ever conducted. (https://www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2022/)

Look at the stories of Brendan Teena and Matthew Shepard. Two examples of hatred and bigotry spurred on by the core belief that being gay or trans is 'unnatural' and 'immoral'. These are concepts taught in many Christian-based churches around the country. (no, I am not going to list each and every one, but you can start with Westboro Baptist Church if you like.)

"Jesus teaches almost the exact opposite of the laws in the OT."?

You know, THINK!, I have to pull back on this one as I genuinely feel I overreached a bit. Jesus did not teach against the Torah. He taught *from* it. How can He be against the very practice He teaches to others?

He *did* however, challenge more than a few things. Not the Torah itself, but rather the way the Temple leaders at the time would abuse a person's faith in order to make a quick buck. Jesus taught that 'the body is a temple'. It is widely accepted that this means treat your body with the same respect you would a holy place of worship, but also that you can commune with God from ANYWHERE because you are a temple. Your heart is. The leaders of the day would insist that one had to worship in a 'house of God', leading many to take a long and arduous pilgrimage through deserts just to show their devotion. Because people came from different regions to worship, the Temple conveniently put up moneychangers to exchange the various coins into items for worship, selling animals for sacrifice, etc. and usually at a marked-up price, pocketing the profits for themselves. This enraged Jesus enough to not only flip the tables but chase them with a whip, demanding they stop committing acts of sacrilege.

So I concede my previous comment regarding Jesus and the OT. My apologies.

Honestly, that's just not an issue among genuine Christians.

I agree wholeheartedly. James 1:22-23 “But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror…”

Which raises the question again: WHERE are all of the outspoken Christians calling out these charlatans and false prophets? True believers may be a majority, but it is the loud minority which sets the bar upon which all Christians are judged. You'd think there'd be more of an uproar...

 

[RLKIII]

Side question: in your opinion, what are your thoughts on Atheists or non-theists who, although worshipping no God, follow the basic principles of God's teachings' naturally?

e.g. I try to be a good person top strangers, to friends and family, to animals of all size and species. I do not steal. I try not to lie, and I live my life with a 'do unto others' approach not because I am promised some great reward or out of fear of some great punishment, but because it is the *right* thing to do as a human being.

Sure, I stumble. We all do. I try to call myself out for passing any judgement and hold myself responsible for my actions, demanding better of myself.

In the Synoptic Gospels Jesus says to His disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, 'Who then can be saved?' Jesus looked at them and said, 'With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.'

I find this interesting because it basically lines out the truth that it is a man's (or woman's) character which allows them to enter heaven, not a man's (or woman's) pride or social status. One can not simply buy their way into paradise.

By inadvertently following the rules but neither accepting nor denying Jesus, would I not be a candidate for Heaven's Kingdom? Certainly not doomed to hell.

Which makes me think of all of the Superchurch television pastors who swindle their followers out of their own hard-earned money in exchange for miracles. These are the very people Jesus would have chased out of the temples with a whip.

Hmmmm

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dorothy, how am I to have all the names? Sorry, but that's a ridiculous request.

You’re a smart cookie. You are right. But the idea that homosexuals commit suicide because they aren’t accepted is, frankly speaking, a lie, They’ve been accepted legally and otherwise for decades. If the lie that they commit suicide were true, we’d have seen a decrease in suicides since then and many in the centuries before. We don’t.

What I CAN tell you is that studies regarding teen suicide ideation was 45% in 2022 alone.

Yes, that’s because of the lockdown and social isolation teens endured for a year. I’ve had parents tell me their teen so struggled. Isolation depresses people.

That's nearly 1 in 5 transgender and nonbinary youth attempted suicide and LGBTQ youth of color reported higher rates than their white peers.

Youth are committing suicide in higher numbers. Nothing to do with sexist race. It has todo with social restrictions from the government and the ensuing loneliness.

According to one survey alone, nearly 34,000 LGBTQ youth ages 13 to 24 across the United States, with 45% of respondents being LGBTQ youth of color and 48% being transgender or nonbinary, our fourth annual national survey is one of the most diverse surveys of LGBTQ youth ever conducted. (https://www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2022/)

So they surveyed those who had committed suicide? I’ll read it later, but the ignored factor is this. If a lonely unpopular teen wants instant community and popularity, just proclaim you are trans. It’s true.

Look at the stories of Brendan Teena and Matthew Shepard. Two examples of hatred and bigotry spurred on by the core belief that being gay or trans is 'unnatural' and 'immoral'.

But no one is saying this. And blacks in America couldn’t attend college before the fifties being considered less and they didn’t commit suicide in mass. Jews suffered great persecution and they didn’t commit mass suicide. This idea that rejection is the cause of suicide begs the question as to why anyone is alive. We’ve all experienced rejection.

These are concepts taught in many Christian-based churches around the country. (no, I am not going to list each and every one, but you can start with Westboro Baptist Church if you like.)

I’ve never heard it ever taught from the pulpit and I’ve been a Christian 40+ years. Not once.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

RLKIII

If being bullied or rejected is a reason people commit suicide, we ought to see a massive increase in suicides in white males because they are being openly hated.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Side question: in your opinion, what are your thoughts on Atheists or non-theists who, although worshipping no God, follow the basic principles of God's teachings' naturally?

I have yet to meet an atheist who does this. What I do commonly meet, are atheists who do not see how their choices (sinful) damage others. They justify their choice if they feel a twinge at all.

In the end, the bar is pretty high. But Jesus and Paul said a man will be judged on the basis of the deeds done while in the body, not if you loved the Judge. All the deeds. If none have been forgiven, they are on the books. Will you do well in that encounter?

e.g. I try to be a good person top strangers, to friends and family, to animals of all size and species. I do not steal. I try not to lie, and I live my life with a 'do unto others' approach not because I am promised some great reward or out of fear of some great punishment, but because it is the *right* thing to do as a human being.

And when doing so costs you a great deal? Do you still choose right over expedient? Have you lost a job by refusing wrong dealings? Would you do so?

Sure, I stumble. We all do. I try to call myself out for passing any judgement and hold myself responsible for my actions, demanding better of myself.

But there is no forgiveness for you.

And What about those who suffer from the wrong you did? Why is your focus on you being better? What about them? Is your focusing on being a better person a help to them for what they already suffered? Is that born out of love or pride in the kind person you see yourself to be? See the difference? (I actually think quite well of you if you can’t tell by my direct speech.)

In the Synoptic Gospels Jesus says to His disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, 'Who then can be saved?' Jesus looked at them and said, 'With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.'

I find this interesting because it basically lines out the truth that it is a man's (or woman's) character which allows them to enter heaven, not a man's (or woman's) pride or social status. One can not simply buy their way into paradise.

Beautiful!! Hit the nail on the head. I tell you, you are not far from the Kingdom of God.

CS Lewis said that from choice after choice, we are making ourselves into creatures fit for Heaven or fit for Hell. Christians ought to see that grace can be ours to do the former instead of basking in a “sure entry into Heaven no matter how we behave.”

By inadvertently following the rules but neither accepting nor denying Jesus, would I not be a candidate for Heaven's Kingdom? Certainly not doomed to hell.

Depends upon your deviations from doing right. These are recorded. And witnesses who suffered from your choices can be called up. How will you fare?

Which makes me think of all of the Superchurch television pastors who swindle their followers out of their own hard-earned money in exchange for miracles. These are the very people Jesus would have chased out of the temples with a whip.

Absolutely!!

Hmmmm

A pleasure talking with such an astute person!!!

 

[RLKIII]

If being bullied or rejected is a reason people commit suicide, we ought to see a massive increase in suicides in white males because they are being openly hated.

As a white male, I'm not going to touch this debate LOL

I have yet to meet an atheist who does this. What I do commonly meet, are atheists who do not see how their choices (sinful) damage others. They justify their choice if they feel a twinge at all.

I disagree. As an atheist myself I often find myself surrounded by other atheists. Many are even my friends, and we all pretty much have the same opinion when it comes to theism, morality and, more often than not, the church. Many came from a similar background as myself; they sought answers for life's burdens through religion, but when they realized that their priest or preacher was pushing hatred and intolerance instead of love and compassion, they lost faith in the church.

In fact, I'd be willing to suggest that many atheists like myself have not lost faith in God per se, but in the Church's interpretation of what it means to be a Christian. As I said, I neither believe in nor deny the existence of God. I simply try to do the best I can for those around me and strangers alike. That sentiment is most often shared with others who call themselves atheists.

Of course, you DO get the bad apples who insist that being an atheist means being Satanic or hating God. Those are usually younger and more angry people who want or need someone/something to blame for their own strife, whether it be a result of their own choices or something beyond their control. The good thing is that anger fades eventually.... for most people, any way.

But there is no forgiveness for you.

That's harsh, but I understand where you are coming from. The thing is I am not seeking forgiveness. As a child and a youth I did things that today I find horrific. Despicable. Stupid. Still, I don't seek forgiveness of those actions from any one. What I do, however, is hold on to those mistakes and use them as tools to make better choices in the future. I used to have a wicked temper. Hurt a lot of people - some of the closest people to me at the time - physically and emotionally. I didn't have the tools or the understanding to control that anger as I do now, and even today I can feel it welling somewhere deep inside, waiting for an opportunity to lash out.

But I don't let it. Whenever I feel anger rising I take a breath, step back and try to remove myself from whatever the situation is before I lost my top. This is one of the lessons I have learned from the errors of my youth.

I don't seek forgiveness from the people I have hurt in the past. Not due to some lack of morality or remorse. Actually, just the opposite. How can I ask someone for forgiveness when I still can't forgive myself? What I do is try to be a better person today than I was yesterday, as I will tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow.

CS Lewis said that from choice after choice, we are making ourselves into creatures fit for Heaven or fit for Hell. Christians ought to see that grace can be ours to do the former instead of basking in a “sure entry into Heaven no matter how we behave.”

I agree with you there. It's the whole camel through a needle thing again.

A pleasure talking with such an astute person!!!

I don't know about astute but I appreciate the compliment. Cheers.

 

[RLKIII]

I’ve never heard it ever taught from the pulpit and I’ve been a Christian 40+ years. Not once.

I'll touch on this... if what you are saying is true (and I believe it is) then you are a very fortunate soul to have found a house of worship and a spiritual leader who preaches true Christian values. I am not going to say these are rare, but unfortunately they are not the ones making the headlines and preaching to millions via television studios, etc.

As for teen suicide in the LGBQT community, all I can say is you're wrong on this one. I have heard far too many stories and have known far too many people affected by this in one way or another to consider it inaccurate.

I am certain there are many Christian families with gay or trans children that continue being loving and supportive. I know of a few preachers and priests that are very open to the idea of inclusion, comfort and love. I just wish there were more of them. Especially in rural Midwest America, where it seems tolerance for anything out of the normal is shunned and combated with anger.

I encourage you to read some of these stories with an open mind and heart. I/m not expecting them to change your mind, but if any of them give you a sliver of insight to the struggle, I'll count that as a win.

'Return the key': the parents who reject their gay children

Chris Jewell’s parents disowned him after finding out he was gay, but he is not alone in his story of parental rejection

www.theguardian.com

How LGBTQ Adults Maintain Ties with Rejecting Parents: Theorizing “Conflict Work” as Family Work - PMC

The present study examines how LGBTQ-identified adults maintain relationships with parents who reject their LGBTQ gender and sexuality. Parents often reject their children’s LGBTQ gender and sexuality, sometimes leading to relationship dissolution. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Egypt: Security Forces Abuse, Torture LGBT People

Egyptian police and National Security Agency officers arbitrarily arrest lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people and detain them in inhuman conditions, systematically subject them to ill-treatment including torture, and often incite fellow inmates to abuse them.

www.hrw.org

Woman reveals she left the Westboro Baptist Church because she's gay

Danielle Phelps, 26, is the granddaughter of Fred Phelps, the founder of the hyper-Calvinist homophobic and anti-military hate group known as the 'most hated family in America'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Heartbreaking...

Pastors in Idaho and Texas call for execution of LGBTQ people - Philadelphia Gay News

It was a bad week to be LGBTQ in Idaho. On June 11, law enforcement in northern Idaho arrested 31 men linked to the white supremacist group Patriot Front. The men are accused of planning a riot at a Pride festival in Coeur d’Alene. Coeur d’Alene Police Chief Lee White told The Washington Post...

epgn.com

These are just a few examples. Extreme examples, I know, but they are examples nonetheless.

No one should have to fear for their life or hide themselves away for being born the were they are.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

As a white male, I'm not going to touch this debate LOL

Why not? Don’t you care about other white males being bullied because of their race and sex?

I disagree. As an atheist myself I often find myself surrounded by other atheists. Many are even my friends, and we all pretty much have the same opinion when it comes to theism, morality and, more often than not, the church. Many came from a similar background as myself; they sought answers for life's burdens through religion, but when they realized that their priest or preacher was pushing hatred and intolerance instead of love and compassion, they lost faith in the church.

None of that changes the standard by which you judge yourselves as “good.” And I’ve been to a lot more preaching services than you and never heard a word of it. You claim the higher ground when it comes to tolerance and peace but refuse to admit white males are a target. Do you see a double standard there? If a pastor reads Leviticus that’s hatred but if white male boys are persecuted by bigots you won’t go there.

In fact, I'd be willing to suggest that many atheists like myself have not lost faith in God per se, but in the Church's interpretation of what it means to be a Christian. As I said, I neither believe in nor deny the existence of God. I simply try to do the best I can for those around me and strangers alike. That sentiment is most often shared with others who call themselves atheists.

From my observation, the bar for trying to “do your best” is quite low. Atheists didn’t end slavery. They didn’t establish hospitals or schools or homes for the elderly or orphanages for street children. You, yourself, try to be a better person but you don’t mention making the world a better place. The best you can might be quite low as compared to the sacrifice christians have made to improve the lives of others.

Of course, you DO get the bad apples who insist that being an atheist means being Satanic or hating God. Those are usually younger and more angry people who want or need someone/something to blame for their own strife, whether it be a result of their own choices or something beyond their control. The good thing is that anger fades eventually.... for most people, any way.

They aren’t a part of the discussion except to say, the most evil governments in the last century were overtly atheists.

That's harsh, but I understand where you are coming from. The thing is I am not seeking forgiveness. As a child and a youth I did things that today I find horrific. Despicable. Stupid. Still, I don't seek forgiveness of those actions from any one. What I do, however, is hold on to those mistakes and use them as tools to make better choices in the future. I used to have a wicked temper. Hurt a lot of people - some of the closest people to me at the time - physically and emotionally. I didn't have the tools or the understanding to control that anger as I do now, and even today I can feel it welling somewhere deep inside, waiting for an opportunity to lash out.

All of those acts will be read from the books of your life. That you improved yourself from them won’t count. That did the victims no good at all.

But I don't let it. Whenever I feel anger rising I take a breath, step back and try to remove myself from whatever the situation is before I lost my top. This is one of the lessons I have learned from the errors of my youth.

So abuse of others doesn’t make you angry? You remove yourself from the matter? Is that good? All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to remove themselves from the situation.

I don't seek forgiveness from the people I have hurt in the past. Not due to some lack of morality or remorse. Actually, just the opposite. How can I ask someone for forgiveness when I still can't forgive myself?

Because you damaged them. Forgiving yourself is if no value to God or man. It’s actually rather self-centered as if your feelings are of the utmost importance

What I do is try to be a better person today than I was yesterday, as I will tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow.

That does them no good at all.

I agree with you there. It's the whole camel through a needle thing again.



I don't know about astute but I appreciate the compliment. Cheers.

I’m fairly direct with you. Take it as a compliment.

 

[THINK!]

None of that changes the standard by which you judge yourselves as “good.”

No one except Jesus and his God will judge us.
Why do you try?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No one except Jesus and his God will judge us.
Why do you try?

Because 2 Cor 13:5 says we should test ourselves. If we do not know when we do wrong by judging our deeds, how shall we ask for forgiveness?

 

[THINK!]

Because 2 Cor 13:5 says we should test ourselves. If we do not know when we do wrong by judging our deeds, how shall we ask for forgiveness?

Very good! But was it talking about the many denominations, or the brotherhood?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Very good! But was it talking about the many denominations, or the brotherhood?

It was talking about neither but being in the faith still.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Side question: in your opinion, what are your thoughts on Atheists or non-theists who, although worshipping no God, follow the basic principles of God's teachings' naturally?

e.g. I try to be a good person top strangers, to friends and family, to animals of all size and species. I do not steal. I try not to lie, and I live my life with a 'do unto others' approach not because I am promised some great reward or out of fear of some great punishment, but because it is the *right* thing to do as a human being.

Assuming the atheist or non-theist has knowledge of Jesus and the gospel, they remain lost and doomed to the judgment of condemnation at the end of the age despite them following the basic principles of God's teachings naturally. The main reason being, no man is justified (absolved of sin guilt) by being righteous. That's not how you are saved from the wrath of God to come in the final judgement. Besides, no man, except Jesus, has ever been perfectly righteous to cause God to declare them to be righteous, and therefore, eligible to enter into the kingdom of God. And even if they could, theoretically, from this point forward be 100% righteous in thought and deed, there's still the matter of the guilt of past sins that would keep that person out of the kingdom of God.

The only solution to man's separation from God and the condemnation of his sins is to believe in and receive God's forgiveness for his sin made available to mankind through the Sacrifice of Jesus, and to receive the righteousness of God through an impartation of that righteousness through that same faith. That's the only way to get right with God. No work can do that. Justification and becoming a saved person happens entirely by having faith in God's forgiveness through his Son, Jesus, and what he did on the cross for us, and does not happen by being righteous, even if you were now able to be 100% righteous in thought and deed.

 

[hawkman]

Heh. No. I went to quite a few but they all preached a different shade of the same. So I started studying on my own.

After not finding a church that was teaching the Bible and God's word you could have started your own church .
Would not be the first time this has happened .
In fact it is not too late .
You can become a Christian and change the world one atheist at a time .
You have seen all problems from the atheist view point that need to be addressed and with becoming a Christian , God will empower you to make a difference .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I'll touch on this... if what you are saying is true (and I believe it is) then you are a very fortunate soul to have found a house of worship and a spiritual leader who preaches true Christian values. I am not going to say these are rare, but unfortunately they are not the ones making the headlines and preaching to millions via television studios, etc.

The headlines are run by those who wish to slant the news. Do you really trust the headlines? Really? I just heard today that a trans person shot and killed children in a christian school.

As for teen suicide in the LGBQT community, all I can say is you're wrong on this one. I have heard far too many stories and have known far too many people affected by this in one way or another to consider it inaccurate.

And I’ve heard stories of parents who committed suicide because their teens were convinced to become trans. I’m not wrong. If rejection by society were a reason to kill yourself, white males would be doing so. Black Americans and Jews would have been doing so for decades in mass. Kids bullied in school would have been doing so. I’m not wrong.

I am certain there are many Christian families with gay or trans children that continue being loving and supportive. I know of a few preachers and priests that are very open to the idea of inclusion, comfort and love. I just wish there were more of them. Especially in rural Midwest America, where it seems tolerance for anything out of the normal is shunned and combated with anger.

And the stories of young adults who bitterly regret going trans as teens grows. They were lied to. They want their organs back. They want to have their singing voices back. They are sterile for the rest of their lives. Their number is growing.

I encourage you to read some of these stories with an open mind and heart. I/m not expecting them to change your mind, but if any of them give you a sliver of insight to the struggle, I'll count that as a win.

Are you willing to read about the trans who are suing the doctors who mutilated them? Watch them weep as they deeply regret being talked into trans? How they were lied to?

'Return the key': the parents who reject their gay children

Chris Jewell’s parents disowned him after finding out he was gay, but he is not alone in his story of parental rejection

www.theguardian.com

How LGBTQ Adults Maintain Ties with Rejecting Parents: Theorizing “Conflict Work” as Family Work - PMC

The present study examines how LGBTQ-identified adults maintain relationships with parents who reject their LGBTQ gender and sexuality. Parents often reject their children’s LGBTQ gender and sexuality, sometimes leading to relationship dissolution. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Egypt: Security Forces Abuse, Torture LGBT People

Egyptian police and National Security Agency officers arbitrarily arrest lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people and detain them in inhuman conditions, systematically subject them to ill-treatment including torture, and often incite fellow inmates to abuse them.

www.hrw.org

Woman reveals she left the Westboro Baptist Church because she's gay

Danielle Phelps, 26, is the granddaughter of Fred Phelps, the founder of the hyper-Calvinist homophobic and anti-military hate group known as the 'most hated family in America'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Heartbreaking...

Pastors in Idaho and Texas call for execution of LGBTQ people - Philadelphia Gay News

It was a bad week to be LGBTQ in Idaho. On June 11, law enforcement in northern Idaho arrested 31 men linked to the white supremacist group Patriot Front. The men are accused of planning a riot at a Pride festival in Coeur d’Alene. Coeur d’Alene Police Chief Lee White told The Washington Post...

epgn.com

These are just a few examples. Extreme examples, I know, but they are examples nonetheless.

I’ll look later. But I can show you one of a mother who saved her daughter from trans who thanks her every day now.

No one should have to fear for their life or hide themselves away for being born the were they are.

No one should be lied to and talked into ruining their heath having body parts cut off.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Which raises the question again: WHERE are all of the outspoken Christians calling out these charlatans and false prophets?

There are lots of online sermons denouncing the Prosperity Gospel. It's a common topic for sermons in churches these days.

 

[RLKIII]

As per usually, a lot to digest here… not that I’m complaining. I asked for debate, after all. However, I do think we are continuing to stray farther and farther from the original topic…

And the stories of young adults who bitterly regret going trans as teens grows. They were lied to. They want their organs back. They want to have their singing voices back. They are sterile for the rest of their lives. Their number is growing.

I know this happens. With any life-altering decision there can be a sense of regret. Even marriage. Interestingly enough, the rate of approximately 2.3 per 1,000 marriages end with divorce due to a variety of issues including adultery and irreconcilable differences. While overall, the rate of divorces in America is falling. Divorces amongst people aged 50+ years are rising.

However, in a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said.

With that said, do I support such aggressive treatments and surgeries for children who express transsexual tendencies? I’d have to say no, “but…” that “but”being that ultimately it is a decision to be discussed by parents and doctors long before anything is set in stone. Let your son or daughter dress however they want. Let them be called by non-binary pronouns. Support them. If it’s a phase (and some are) then at least the kids will know they have the support of their family and will be more willing to engage in open-minded discussions. They may even realize that they do not want to go through with a surgery after all, or may not until their older and more certain of their own sense of self. If you want to rush a kid into a rash decision, act negatively and be unsupportive. That works every time.

And I’ve heard stories of parents who committed suicide because their teens were convinced to become trans. I’m not wrong. If rejection by society were a reason to kill yourself, white males would be doing so. Black Americans and Jews would have been doing so for decades in mass. Kids bullied in school would have been doing so. I’m not wrong.

I can find no supporting documentation, reports or studies correlating any of this. Can you share?

Additionally, because some survived the bullying, etc. does not in any way infer that all did. This seems like a strawman argument here.

Are you willing to read about the trans who are suing the doctors who mutilated them? Watch them weep as they deeply regret being talked into trans? How they were lied to?

Again, I’ll need some citation of these articles and studies.

I’ll look later. But I can show you one of a mother who saved her daughter from trans who thanks her every day now

I’m sure it happens. See my comment above re: supporting kids. However, this in no way supports the theory that ALL trans kids feel this way.

The headlines are run by those who wish to slant the news. Do you really trust the headlines? Really? I just heard today that a trans person shot and killed children in a christian school.

This is true; the mainstream media use certain angles to push a desired opinion to the public. Look at the recent lawsuit v FOX news as an example. I am sure MSNBC and others do similar but haven’t been called out yet.

A Trans shot up a school. Ok. I am willing to bet it had nothing with them being trans but, rather, mentally unstable. Do you know that that non-Hispanic white men have been responsible for 54 percent of mass shootings since August 1982?

Of those shootings. What were the primary reasons? Top 10 via Alfred University

1 They want to get back at those who have hurt them.

2 Other kids pick on them, make fun or them, or bully them.

3 They don't value life.

4 They have been victims of physical abuse at home.

5 They have mental problems.

6 It is easy for them to get a gun.

7 They do not get along with their parents.

8 They have witnessed physical abuse at home.

9 They drink alcohol or use drugs.

10 They do not have any good friends.

Speculative, at best, but the overwhelming reason, the umbrella which overshadows all, is {i]mental health.[/i] There has been NO reported correlation between merely being trans and committing mass murder.

 

[RLKIII]

After not finding a church that was teaching the Bible and God's word you could have started your own church .

Would not be the first time this has happened .

In fact it is not too late .

You can become a Christian and change the world one atheist at a time .

You have seen all problems from the atheist view point that need to be addressed and with becoming a Christian , God will empower you to make a difference .

Interesting. I have no intention of starting a church or movement, per se. I simply want to be a good person whenever I can for no other reason than it brings me joy to share kindness, respect and love with others and asking for nothing in return. I don’t see why becoming a Christian would add any more value to that.

Perhaps being an Atheist with a religious history and an unbiased interest in the interpretation of the Bible in all of its forms is God’s way of making a difference. Who can say?

Is God, and by extension Jesus, truly that fragile that He would punish one for simply not taking up the mantle of Christianity? I accept the values of Jesus’ teachings but do not insist He is a messiah. I do not believe my self-worth or the worth of others depends on whether or not they say they’ve accepted Jesus Christ. Words are meaningless. Anyone can say one thing and then commit horrendous acts.

Does 1 John 3 not state that it is what we hold in our hearts, not what we say, that defines our love?

“And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.”

If it is just saying the words “I accept Jesus” is enough, as I am afraid many believe, then this passage wouldn’t need to exist. However, it does. For a reason.

Do I really need to say the words or title myself a Christian or are my deeds not good enough?

And if not, why? Is God truly that fragile and petty that He would decry someone for not carrying a banner?