What is the point of the New Testament?

[RLKIII]

There are lots of online sermons denouncing the Prosperity Gospel. It's a common topic for sermons in churches these days.

It’s a tough battle, for certain. One, I fear, is unfairly stacked against Christians who do not believe in the Prosperity Gospel by those who make a wealthy living by spewing hatred and bigotry. Far too many people want the ‘easy’ way to salvation. Pay to play as it were. Cheated on my wife? Write a check to the church, etc.

It's a sad state of affairs that after 2,000 years nothing has changed. Certain religious leaders want to abuse the Word for their own personal gain and those who chose to believe in hatred, violence and bigotry are all too eager to listen. To feed their addiction. Casting Christianity in an ugly shadow of corruption and violence.

“Good” Christians, however, get caught in the middle of it all.

 

[eddif]

So, my final question is this: what is the point of the New Testament if worshippers are going to ignore it?

I will try.
The Old Testament gives a background of God. Without it you listen to:
Man was seeded by aliens
Man came full grown from a lightning struck stump.
Man is evolved from pond scum.

Creation hides lessons in nature.
The book of Job has a lot about creation.

The sad thing is the Jews who had the mysteries, did not understand them.

The prophets gave things from God they did not understand themselves.

Why people cling to the OT.
Physical things they can see.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Why the New Testament:
Finally the revelation about what the OT was about is revealed. Jesus supplied some information.0

The parable of the sower shows:
The Seed is the word of God
The Ground is men’s hearts

Seed existed from creation, but men did not know there was a higher meaning. The feeding of oxen treading out grain in the OT was so NT people would pay a good preacher.

I can supply scriptures if you need them.

I will let you ask questions if you wish.

Romans 1:20

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[hawkman]

Interesting. I have no intention of starting a church or movement, per se. I simply want to be a good person whenever I can for no other reason than it brings me joy to share kindness, respect and love with others and asking for nothing in return. I don’t see why becoming a Christian would add any more value to that.

There is a word in the post of mine you just quoted "empowered" . When you become a born again follower of Jesus the Holy Spirit will empower the good you do in this world .You will be supernaturally empowered to do work for God . The value added will inestimable compared to you alone .

Perhaps being an Atheist with a religious history and an unbiased interest in the interpretation of the Bible in all of its forms is God’s way of making a difference. Who can say?

You need the Holy Spirit . John14:26
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

Does 1 John 3 not state that it is what we hold in our hearts, not what we say, that defines our love?

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

​

As a born again follower of Jesus the Holy Spirit will be in you . You need to believe Jesus is the Son of God and he will forgive your sins if you ask and believe .

Do I really need to say the words or title myself a Christian or are my deeds not good enough?

No title necessary , become a born again follower of Jesus .

And if not, why? Is God truly that fragile and petty that He would decry someone for not carrying a banner?

The choice is do you want God in your life now and forever or not . God will honor your choice .

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Does 1 John 3 not state that it is what we hold in our hearts, not what we say, that defines our love?

No. It says we are to love with action, not just in words. By doing that we have assurance that we belong to the truth, even if in our heart we may have doubts that we do. He gives an example of what he’s talking about:

17If anyone with earthly possessions sees his brother in need, but withholds his compassion from him, how can the love of God abide in him?

18Little children, let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth. 19And by this we will know that we belong to the truth, and will assure our hearts in His presence: 20Even if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and He knows all things. 1 John 3:17-20


James offers a similar teaching about that here:

15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” (loves in word only) but does not provide for his physical needs (does not love in action), what good is that? James 2:15-16

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is God truly that fragile and petty that He would decry someone for not carrying a banner?

No.
But what he will do is deny us before the angels in heaven if we deny him before men.

8I tell you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will also confess him before the angels of God. 9But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God. Luke 12:8-9

12 if we deny Him, He will also deny us. 2Timothy 2:12

So, if we deny him in this life we have no expectation of somehow being received by him in the next.

 

[eddif]

It’s a tough battle, for certain. One, I fear, is unfairly stacked against Christians who do not believe in the Prosperity Gospel by those who make a wealthy living by spewing hatred and bigotry. Far too many people want the ‘easy’ way to salvation. Pay to play as it were. Cheated on my wife? Write a check to the church, etc.

It's a sad state of affairs that after 2,000 years nothing has changed. Certain religious leaders want to abuse the Word for their own personal gain and those who chose to believe in hatred, violence and bigotry are all too eager to listen. To feed their addiction. Casting Christianity in an ugly shadow of corruption and violence.

“Good” Christians, however, get caught in the middle of it all.

Romans 11:2 kjv
2. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3. Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Just because thousands of OT Jews sinned it does not mean all sinned to excess (sin having dominion/rule over them).

Same today. Just because we see terrible sin by some, others are seeking God. Are they perfect? No. They confess their sins.

I am trying to keep my posts short enough to not confuse.

eddif

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is God, and by extension Jesus, truly that fragile that He would punish one for simply not taking up the mantle of Christianity?

It’s not a matter of him being fragile. He punishes everyone for not being a Christian because being forgiven our sins through faith in the sacrifice of Christ is the only way for us to not receive the just wages we’ve earned for our sin.

Jesus took our place on the cross becoming a ransom for us taking the just punishment of our sins on himself in our stead. And in return we are given his righteousness. Then, as born again Christians we live the righteous life we couldn’t live while we were still in the bondage of sin in our unforgiven state.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do I really need to say the words or title myself a Christian or are my deeds not good enough?

8…that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved. Romans 10:10

 

[Dorothy Mae]

As per usually, a lot to digest here… not that I’m complaining. I asked for debate, after all. However, I do think we are continuing to stray farther and farther from the original topic…



I know this happens. With any life-altering decision there can be a sense of regret. Even marriage. Interestingly enough, the rate of approximately 2.3 per 1,000 marriages end with divorce due to a variety of issues including adultery and irreconcilable differences. While overall, the rate of divorces in America is falling. Divorces amongst people aged 50+ years are rising.

However, in a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said.

With that said, do I support such aggressive treatments and surgeries for children who express transsexual tendencies? I’d have to say no, “but…” that “but”being that ultimately it is a decision to be discussed by parents and doctors long before anything is set in stone. Let your son or daughter dress however they want. Let them be called by non-binary pronouns. Support them. If it’s a phase (and some are) then at least the kids will know they have the support of their family and will be more willing to engage in open-minded discussions. They may even realize that they do not want to go through with a surgery after all, or may not until their older and more certain of their own sense of self. If you want to rush a kid into a rash decision, act negatively and be unsupportive. That works every time.




I can find no supporting documentation, reports or studies correlating any of this. Can you share?

Additionally, because some survived the bullying, etc. does not in any way infer that all did. This seems like a strawman argument here.





Again, I’ll need some citation of these articles and studies.





I’m sure it happens. See my comment above re: supporting kids. However, this in no way supports the theory that ALL trans kids feel this way.





This is true; the mainstream media use certain angles to push a desired opinion to the public. Look at the recent lawsuit v FOX news as an example. I am sure MSNBC and others do similar but haven’t been called out yet.

A Trans shot up a school. Ok. I am willing to bet it had nothing with them being trans but, rather, mentally unstable. Do you know that that non-Hispanic white men have been responsible for 54 percent of mass shootings since August 1982?

Of those shootings. What were the primary reasons? Top 10 via Alfred University

1 They want to get back at those who have hurt them.

2 Other kids pick on them, make fun or them, or bully them.

3 They don't value life.

4 They have been victims of physical abuse at home.

5 They have mental problems.

6 It is easy for them to get a gun.

7 They do not get along with their parents.

8 They have witnessed physical abuse at home.

9 They drink alcohol or use drugs.

10 They do not have any good friends.

Speculative, at best, but the overwhelming reason, the umbrella which overshadows all, is {i]mental health.[/i] There has been NO reported correlation between merely being trans and committing mass murder.

You are right, we’re drifting away from the OP so let’s drop it. But consider this, the position that society ought to not oppose a deviation in its social constructs because those so choosing might/are killing themselves is one, directly against the progress of evolution where the weak ought not to survive (not my position, btw) and it holds hostage the values of the majority who must surrender their values lest the few kill themselves. If pedophils start committing suicide because they aren’t accepted, shall the majority surrender? It’s the same argument you are using and it means ANY minority can force the majority to do their bidding or they’ll kill themselves. Just think about it.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Interesting. I have no intention of starting a church or movement, per se. I simply want to be a good person whenever I can for no other reason than it brings me joy to share kindness, respect and love with others and asking for nothing in return. I don’t see why becoming a Christian would add any more value to that.

Do you not see that this is a self-centered reason? What if robbing old ladies brought a man it brings them joy to help those old people share their wealth? What’s the difference?

Perhaps being an Atheist with a religious history and an unbiased interest in the interpretation of the Bible in all of its forms is God’s way of making a difference. Who can say?

I can say. You call it unbiased and it’s more like not encumbered with another man’s view before which is good but also free from the desire to apply it to your life, right? I can say you are encumbered with a wrong view of the Old Testament. When you read that you’re wearer colored glasses.

Is God, and by extension Jesus, truly that fragile that He would punish one for simply not taking up the mantle of Christianity?

I already told you that you will be judged by how you treated other people not if you liked the Judge. Why does this answer not become a part of your position? Why do you return to the old accusation against God? If you want to progress in understanding you must embrace new input and drop old answered questions.

I accept the values of Jesus’ teachings but do not insist He is a messiah. I do not believe my self-worth or the worth of others depends on whether or not they say they’ve accepted Jesus Christ. Words are meaningless. Anyone can say one thing and then commit horrendous acts.

On this you are correct. But doing the teaching of Jesus cannot bypass accepting his words.

Does 1 John 3 not state that it is what we hold in our hearts, not what we say, that defines our love?

Hidden love is useless. Love or faith without works is dead. The reason is clear and you’ve expressed it. Saying words is something anyone can do. And people also lie, to others and to themselves.

If it is just saying the words “I accept Jesus” is enough, as I am afraid many believe, then this passage wouldn’t need to exist. However, it does. For a reason.

“I accept Jesus” is no where in the Bible. Following Jesus is but that’s an action word. “Accepting” is merely mental ascent.

Do I really need to say the words or title myself a Christian or are my deeds not good enough?

Are your deeds good enough? So far you’ve admitted you do good to others for your own joy. Can we assume when doing good is painful and brings no joy you don’t do them?

And if not, why? Is God truly that fragile and petty that He would decry someone for not carrying a banner?

We don’t have banners. Are you such a creature that only your joy in what you choose matters? (I refrain from using the words you used against God although it could be done.).

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It’s a tough battle, for certain. One, I fear, is unfairly stacked against Christians who do not believe in the Prosperity Gospel by those who make a wealthy living by spewing hatred and bigotry. Far too many people want the ‘easy’ way to salvation. Pay to play as it were. Cheated on my wife? Write a check to the church, etc.

It's a sad state of affairs that after 2,000 years nothing has changed. Certain religious leaders want to abuse the Word for their own personal gain and those who chose to believe in hatred, violence and bigotry are all too eager to listen. To feed their addiction. Casting Christianity in an ugly shadow of corruption and violence.

“Good” Christians, however, get caught in the middle of it all.

You are missing a whole lot of changes you enjoy brought directly by christianity.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

RLKIII, What you need to know is pretty simple. It is appointed for man (you) to die once and then comes judgement of your life by the deeds done while in the body. How you treated others will be the main focus (which is reflected in how many commandments focus on this.) You will not be compared to others but to the knowledge you had (and judged others by) of what is right and if you upheld your own standard even if it gave you no pleasure and cost you a lot.

Real Christians have seen their own sins (wrong done) and repented and asked for (and received) forgiveness. God has then imparted to the varying degrees of the power to become the sons of God. This is a journey, not a done deal.

There’s more but that’s sufficient. The journey you have chosen to travel here is fraught with danger. He who asks questions and gets answers cannot remain the same when it comes to the search for God.

The danger is this. When God gives you answers (through people likely) you have come to a crossroads from which there’s no turning back. Because either you embrace new understanding or you reject it. If you embrace it, you’ve taken a step towards Him and the light and can forever change your life and destiny. If you refuse the answers (because you don’t like them), then eventually you will be left in the dark. When the truth hammers on a man’s window and he stubbornly refuses to open up, it eventually stops hammering and the man is left in the dark, blinded and deaf.

You’re on a dangerous adventure, dear sir.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

“I accept Jesus” is no where in the Bible.

Receiving him is actually how it should be said.

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 1 Corinthians 15:1

 

[eddif]

Receiving him is actually how it should be said.

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 1 Corinthians 15:1

I Have posted the following multiple times, and since you are saying the receiving, perhaps we can join forces.

Revelation 3:20 kjv
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Sounds like receiving a guest to me. Of course a redneck mind seems strange to some.

Christ in us the hope of glory (from memory)
Colossians 1:27 kjv
27. To whom God would make known what isthe riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

He knocks at our door. If we welcome Jesus, his quickening spirit enters.

We bring the sacrifice of praise to the table, and he brings his body and blood.

Makes sense to me. Am I adding to or taking away from the Word of God? Some will say context. If seed is the Word of God, and men’s hearts are the ground; then the concept may just transcend context.

What you think?

Christ in us
Us in Christ
Totally immersed inside and out.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It’s a tough battle, for certain. One, I fear, is unfairly stacked against Christians who do not believe in the Prosperity Gospel by those who make a wealthy living by spewing hatred and bigotry. Far too many people want the ‘easy’ way to salvation. Pay to play as it were. Cheated on my wife? Write a check to the church, etc.

It's a sad state of affairs that after 2,000 years nothing has changed. Certain religious leaders want to abuse the Word for their own personal gain and those who chose to believe in hatred, violence and bigotry are all too eager to listen. To feed their addiction. Casting Christianity in an ugly shadow of corruption and violence.

“Good” Christians, however, get caught in the middle of it all.

I guess in an age where the President of the US has a son who’s deeply in corruption, the above accusations are wildly amiss just because somewhere some pastor read out of leviticus.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

RLKIII, there’s something you might not know. And that is no civilization has survived more than 3 generations once it opened up to immoral sexual practices.

“After ten years of relentless research of more than eighty civilizations, J. D. Unwin concluded. “Any human society is free to choose either to display great energy or to enjoy sexual freedom: the evidence is that it cannot do both for more than one generation.”

Is he a hate-filled man for discovering this?

But let’s return to the OP…

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Revelation 3:20 kjv
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Sounds like receiving a guest to me. Of course a redneck mind seems strange to some.

Yes, like receiving a guest who requests to come in.

 

[RLKIII]

I guess in an age where the President of the US has a son who’s deeply in corruption

Let's keep politics out of this as much as possible if we can. There *is* corruption in politics, on both sides, some far, far worse than others but that is the very nature of politics itself.

As for everything else, I do not believe in God as a singular all-powerful intelligence. Or, more accurately, I *do* believe in a cosmic consciousness and, to an extent, a form of life after death as it were, but not that any of this is overseen and controlled by a single superentity.

My greatest hope and my greatest fear as the same thing, however. That I am wrong.

I am quite happy to spend life in eternal purgatory if it comes down to merely saying some words. I'd also have a beef with God about why He would see fit to give kids terminal cancer, among other things. A truly benevolent God wouldn't punish innocent children like that, and if it's to punish the parents for something, then God's just an ass.

But enough on that....

eddif said:
Christ in us
Us in Christ
Totally immersed inside and out.

Perhaps. Perhaps Christ 'knocks' on the hearts of some more subtly than others.

Without trying to sound like a hypocrite, if I, in my heart, follow the lessons laid out in the parables and sermons of the Christ not because I wish to call myself a Christian but because in my soul I feel it is simply the *right* thing to do, can that not be interpreted as me 'answering the door'?

There are three 'truths' about God. He is omnipresent. He is Omniscient. He is ineffable.

To insist there is only one aspect of God is to place limitations upon the limitless. God, Allah, Elohim, Abba, Thor, Odin, Marduk, Set... to insist that the Christian God Can't be any of these is akin to saying a lake or river can't be wet because the great ocean is wet.

Those waters are of course muddied by "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" So there *are* other gods out there. God is jealous and wants to keep humanity to Himself.

This has always struck me as revealing that God, by any name we wish to call Him, is not infallible but is just as prone to sin as any of us.

Greed: as seen above; wanting to keep all of us to Himself

Envy: Exodus 20:5 "You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God..."

Sloth: for the past 2000+ years He has been absent, unwilling or unable to involve Himself directly with Humanity.
Wrath: We've seen plenty of examples of God's wrath called out by name.

Pride: An entire war in Heaven began because God thought none of his firstborn creations deserved the adulation He himself basked within.

That really only leaves Lust and Gluttony. Lust is a very close cousin to Envy, so that's debatable. Gluttony runs parallel with greed.

And, actually, the above assumption, that God is as fallible as the rest of us (just with a LOT more power than we have) makes me *like* God a little more. Appreciate, even. Relate to a little more. I have more respect for anyone who is willing to admit his/her/their own weaknesses than anyone who would demand they are perfect.

But maybe that's just me...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'd also have a beef with God about why He would see fit to give kids terminal cancer, among other things. A truly benevolent God wouldn't punish innocent children like that, and if it's to punish the parents for something, then God's just an ass.

That's the result of sin, not God's punishment.

We live in a fallen world. A world turned over to sin and decay because of the disobedience of Adam and Eve. And so we live an existence separated from the beauty and perfection of heaven. But which God will restore us to if we admit our sin and ask forgiveness, and receive the Holy Spirit as a down payment and guarantee of the glory to come. But most people reject his offer of forgiveness and restoration and prefer the pleasures of sin instead.