No such thing as spiritual baptism
Only the Christian ritual of baptism required to be a Christian and salvation
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What is the rule of faith for Christians?
- Thread starter Bible
- Start date
Only the Christian ritual of baptism required to be a Christian and salvation
Israel wasn't under 'king James'. Old Testament.
And the Church was the born-again believers. Not the Roman church. New Testament.
Quantrill
They still determined what books and chapters would be in thier version
A believer is not a Christian and not in the church
A believer is only a catechumen or student learning the faith Lk 1:4
Faith and baptism are required for Christians and the new covenant church Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
See 104
Indeed, Israel did identify the inspired books of the Old Testament. Not the Church.
A believer in God and Christ is the Church.
I don't know what you mean by 'required for Christians'. That is a vague statement.
Quantrill
I did see it. My question remains. What aspect of salvation are you talking about?
Quantrill
The requirements that you cannot be saved without baptism
What requirements and what aspect of salvation are you talking about? (Mark 16:16) says 'he that believeth not shall be damned." All is centered on 'belief'.
(Acts 8:36-37) is clear. Belief is what is required for being a born-again believer. A Christian. Then follows water baptism. (Acts 8:38)
Quantrill
Then Christian ritual of baptism is meaningless
Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!
It is Reasonable that if they reject faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Eph 1:13 4:30 sealed
God says baptism! Ez 36:25:27
Jesus Christ says baptism! Mk 16:16
Peter says baptism! Acts 3:38 1 Pet 3:21
Paul say baptism! 1 cor 1:16 1 cor 12:13
The apostles say baptism! Acts 2:38 acts 8:36-38
For 2000 yrs the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always taught baptism per matt 28:19
Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”
John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)
John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)
John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)
John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
Born again means Baptismal regeneration!
John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)
John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)
John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)
John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
Born again means Baptismal regeneration!
(Born of God) faith and baptism
Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Born of God by baptism
1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Born of God by baptism
1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
No water baptism is not meaningless. It is important. It just isn't necessary to be born-again. As I have said, it plays a role in our salvation process after we have been born-again.
Well, I agree. If they reject faith, why bother with baptism. If one is baptized but doesn't have faith, he just got wet.
(1 Cor. 12:13) is not water baptism. It is Spirit baptism.
(Eph 1:13, 4:30) is not water baptism. It is the sealing of the Holy Spirit by the Holy Spirit.
(Ezekiel 36:25-27) is not water baptism. It is the New Birth promised to Israel by the Spirit.
I've already explained (Mark 16:16) and (Acts 2:38). Both are clear that water baptism follows faith.
(1 Peter 3:20-21) is clear that the salvation spoken of is our salvation after we are born-again. Our deliverance in our walk of faith.
Concerning (1 Cor. 1:16) and (Matt. 28:19) we are not discussing whether or not water baptism exists. So just because you find water baptism in Scripture doesn't mean it is required for one to be born-again. That is what we are discussing.
Quantrill
In (John 1:26) and (John 1:33) we see a clear distinction between water baptism and Spirit baptism. John the Baptist recognized it. And the baptism of Christ would be by the Spirit. (1:33)
The 'water' in (John 3:5) speaks to the Word of God. Not water baptism. (Eph. 5:26)
Jesus didn't baptize anyone. His disciples did. (John 4:2)
Born-again can mean baptismal regeneration if you're talking about Spirit baptism. You however confuse water baptism with Spirit baptism.
Quantrill
(John 1:12-13) speaks to being born-again by the Spirit.
(1 John 5:5) is clear. Faith is required to overcome.
That Jesus was water baptized is not being denied. That was Johns Baptism that was coupled with the Gospel of the Kingdom for Israel. Not Christian water baptism.
(Rom. 6:3-4) is not water baptism. It is Spirit baptism.
(1 Peter 3:20-21) is Christian water baptism. The salvation spoken of there pertains to our walk as a believer in this world. And this is why I believe it is important. It is our identification, our outward display of what has taken place in our spirit. And it benefits us because the very act has a cleansing affect upon our conscience. It is not our being 'born-again'. It is our deliverance from the world.
You are mistaken about 'salvation' in (1 Peter 3:20). We are not being told the Ark saved anyone. We are told the waters of the flood saved the 8 souls. How did the water save the 8 souls? Destroyed the world. Of which water baptism, in figure only, saves us. Our deliverance from the world in our walk of salvation here.
Quantrill
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stovebolts
Member
This sounds very cultish to me. My wife was raised within the churches of Christ and many fundamentalist hold the hard line that baptism is a requirement of salvation.
This line of thinking can be toxic as it minimizes the beauty of baptism and converts baptism from a beautiful ceremony where God and man (or woman) are United as one into a legalistic transaction void of any semblance of relationship.
While I believe the Bible teaches that Baptism is normative in the salvistic experience, it’s not as cut and dry as some would make it out.
It is dangerous when any church teaches they are the only one true church and they alone hold absolute truth within their doctrines. That’s a huge red flag that is very apparent to the world, yet blinds the minds of those who support such institutions. Those institutions breed the spirit of division. Point in case, baptism and communion are items to unite the body of Christ, yet they are some of the most controversial subjects within christian cults who claim their doctrine makes them the one true church. How sad.
So baptism does not was away sins?
Does not make us a member of Christ and put on Christ?
Not baptized into his death?
Does not make us members of his church?
Does not accomplish justification and regeneration???
So baptism does not was away sins?
Does not make us a member of Christ and put on Christ?
Not baptized into his death?
Does not make us members of his church?
Does not accomplish justification and regeneration???
Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”
John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)
John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)
John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)
John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
Born again means Baptismal regeneration!
He is already delegating his authority to his church to the apostles
The church is the ark of salvation 1 cor 12:13 gal 3:27
1 pet 3:21 baptism is the initiation the ark of salvation