What is the work of the builder that will burn?

[JLB]

That's because you refuse to consider these two facts: 1) that Paul says it's the works (not people) that are burned up and 2) It was God's work that saved John and Jane.

This was all covered in chapters 18 & 19, of the Jethro Bodine school of ministry, online cyphering course.

One would have had to completely skip the last 11 chapters to come up with the answer you did.

The good news is: Now its out in the open, you can fess up to your "mistake", and Jethro will gladly give you a second chance to make up the work.



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How does John's later adultery affect Apollos' works? I can't become vain. Apollos' work didn't change, John did. Did God's work become vain. Gotcha

Got me what? That I don't look at the Bible through the OSAS glasses that you do that makes you instantly think ahead of time that anything God does can't be in vain simply because it's something God does? Without those glasses we can see in the Bible that believers sanctified by the blood of Christ will suffer the damnation of the wicked if they fall away.

Plus, I thought you agreed that God caused the increase. So John's salvation was God's work, not Apollos'.

You're resisting the fact that God gives the increase through the labor of the worker:

"How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? " (Romans 10:14 NASB)

And when the laborer's work in the building of God doesn't endure to the end, or that work added to the kingdom and household and building of God really didn't believe in the first place, that work, that addition to the building, will be burned off and won't make it through the Judgment and won't be in the kingdom on the Day of Christ to be a crown of exultation for the laborer.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

chessman, I didn't say it then, but you were checkmated in post #131.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This was all covered in chapters 18 & 19, of the Jethro Bodine school of ministry, online cyphering course.

View attachment 4879

 

[chessman]

chessman, I didn't say it then, but you were checkmated in post #131.

I knew you were attempting to checkmate God's actual work when you thought it an option that you put other people in Heaven versus God quite literally doing that part.

Poll Results: What do you think the work is that Paul says will be burned up?
Members who voted for 'People you place in the building of God but who don't pass through the Final Judgment of God.'

• Jethro Bodine
• JLB

I don't look at the Bible through the OSAS glasses that you do ...

Yes, our view of who and what God is, is fundamentally quite different. Just take this passage for an example.

I [Paul] planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing it to grow. So then, neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who is causing it to grow.
​

I just read it for what it says about Paul and Apollos and God relative to the growth of the Kingdom. You, on the other hand, think Apollos' work is something that places people in the Kingdom of God. We view God differently, yes.

You take care though and keep up the good work.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I knew you were attempting to checkmate God's actual work when you thought it an option that you put other people in Heaven versus God quite literally doing that part.

Poll Results: What do you think the work is that Paul says will be burned up?
Members who voted for 'People you place in the building of God but who don't pass through the Final Judgment of God.'

• Jethro Bodine
• JLB

Yes, our view of who and what God is, is fundamentally quite different. Just take this passage for an example.

I [Paul] planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing it to grow. So then, neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who is causing it to grow.
​

I just read it for what it says about Paul and Apollos and God relative to the growth of the Kingdom. You, on the other hand, think Apollos' work is something that places people in the Kingdom of God. We view God differently, yes.

You take care though and keep up the good work.

Here are the plain words you're ignoring:

"...we are God's fellow workers; you (Corinthians) are God's field, God's building."
(1 Corinthians 3:10 NASB parenthesis mine)

"14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. " (1 Corinthians 3:14 NASB)

We can see the 'work' of the laborer is the people he--as God's fellow worker--builds into the building of God. Now it's a matter of seeing if what the worker built in God's building (the Corinthians, vs. 10) makes it through the Judgment. If the work which he has built (the Corinthians, vs. 10) passes through the fire safely and remains he will get his reward (vs. 14).

 

[chessman]

Here are the plain words you're ignoring:

"...we are God's fellow workers; you (Corinthians) are God's field, God's building."
(1 Corinthians 3:10 NASB parenthesis mine)

Now that's truly funny (ironic to it's core). The ... that you so obviously ignore is this fellow that works, does so according to the Grace given to him by God:

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God given to me, ...​

 

[JLB]

Now that's truly funny (ironic to it's core). The ... that you so obviously ignore is this fellow that works, does so according to the Grace given to him by God:

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God given to me, ...​

Does God water or build apart from the worker in whom He has given the Grace.

If so, then why does He say to human beings, Go and preach the Gospel, and make disciples???


Why are you refusing to acknowledge that we are God's worker's and laborers?

Because it shows that we truly do have work to perform for God, and we ourselves have a responsibility to co-operate with God in this life to bear fruit.


It seems as though the mindset of those who believe and teach the doctrine of OSAS, don't believe the Christian has any work or any labor or any responsibility to God at all, in this life because it's all up to God alone to do anything in the process of salvation, when the scriptures teach us otherwise.

Is this the reason you oppose every facet of what is being presented here from the scriptures?



JLB

 

[WIP]

Just a friendly reminder and observation. Some of the comments are beginning to hinge on the personal side. This discussion has remained civil and it would be great to see it continue that way.

 

[chessman]

Does God water or build apart from the worker in whom He has given the Grace.

JLB

well, He can if He so desires. But, no. That's not Paul's point in 1 Cor 3.

If so, then why does He say to human beings, Go and preach the Gospel, and make disciples???

JLB

It's not typically so. The reason He says go and preach... Is because it's part of His plan to involve works so He can Justly reward us. Founded on Jesus, of course. Was this not why you went and worked? I suspect it was. Correct me if I'm wrong. I certainly hope that it was not so God would save you or for that matter keep you saved.

Why are you refusing to acknowledge that we are God's worker's and laborers?

JLB

I'm not. In fact I have consistently acknowledged the fact that God uses workers. That's why I wrote the little story about John, Jane, Apollos, Joel, etc.

JB, likewise kept making the same false accusation against me. I fully recognize that workers work. Never said otherwise.

Because it shows that we truly do have work to perform for God, and we ourselves have a responsibility to co-operate with God in this life to bear fruit.

JLB

Okay. Fair enough. I agree. Except I also think that if we do this properly (as Paul did for his work and Apollos did for his work, etc. ... each gets his deserved reward. If not done properly the worker's work gets burned up (not the people). I know this is where you and JB disagree. But this Scripture agrees with my take and disagrees with yours.

It seems as though the mindset of those who believe and teach the doctrine of OSAS, don't believe the Christian has any work or any labor or any responsibility to God at all, in this life because it's all up to God alone to do anything in the process of salvation, when the scriptures teach us otherwise.

JLB

If that were my view, then why do you think I wrote they little analogy that was meant to distinguish a rewardable work versus an abominable work? The real question is why do you two keep accusing me of a mindset I don't hold?

Is this the reason you oppose every facet of what is being presented here from the scriptures?

JLB

No. The reason I'm interacting is two fold. 1. I think you two are missing a facet within 1 Cor 3. And 2, I may be missing a facet.

So here's your opportunity to teach me what I'm missing; Just exactly what do you think Paul meant by:

1 Corinthians 3:7 So then, neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who is causing it to grow. ​

I'm thinking Paul's point was: 1) God is causing it (His Kingdom of people) to grow and 2) neither Paul nor Apollos were assigned that work. Paul was assigned to "plant the foundation, Christ" throughout the world and Apollos was assigned the work of "watering" the people God caused to come into that Kingdom (through Paul) there in Corinth.

And others have other tasks. Such as mowing the grass in Corinth or elsewhere.

But what's your take on verse 7? Why does Paul say neither himself or Apollos are "anything"? Now you can avoid this question or not. It's up to you.

p.s. If you merely change the subject, I'll think you are ignoring verse 7.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

... that you so obviously ignore is this fellow that works, does so according to the Grace given to him by God:

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God given to me, ...​

What does that have to do with what Paul plainly says here, that if this fellow's work--people he labors to put in the kingdom--does not endure to the end, he will not receive the reward of exultation for that work, because that work won't be there on the Day of Christ to be that for him.

Just because the worker is doing God's work doesn't mean that what he builds will automatically survive the Judgement, or else Paul would not be saying what he is saying here. Your doctrine has to stop reading it's OSAS bias into the passage (that no one whom God saves can fail to be saved on the Day of Christ) and just go by the plain words of the passage. What is being built is the Temple of God's people. They are the work of the laborer (1 Corinthians 3:9 NASB). If that work survives the coming fire the worker will receive his reward (1 Corinthians 3:13-14 NASB).

 

[chessman]

What does that have to do with what Paul plainly says here,

Umm, everything since it's a part of what Paul was saying here. That is, the part that explains who (and where it came from) is the foundation of his work assignment.

Your doctrine has to stop reading it's OSAS bias into the passage

No I don't have to stop. I'll keep it right up until the point that you prove it's wrong. [Potentially inflammable comment]

 

[JLB]

well, He can if He so desires. But, no. That's not Paul's point in 1 Cor 3.

It's not typically so. The reason He says go and preach... Is because it's part of His plan to involve works so He can Justly reward us. Founded on Jesus, of course. Was this not why you went and worked? I suspect it was. Correct me if I'm wrong. I certainly hope that it was not so God would save you or for that matter keep you saved.

I'm not. In fact I have consistently acknowledged the fact that God uses workers. That's why I wrote the little story about John, Jane, Apollos, Joel, etc.

JB, likewise kept making the same false accusation against me. I fully recognize that workers work. Never said otherwise.


Okay. Fair enough. I agree. Except I also think that if we do this properly (as Paul did for his work and Apollos did for his work, etc. ... each gets his deserved reward. If not done properly the worker's work gets burned up (not the people). I know this is where you and JB disagree. But this Scripture agrees with my take and disagrees with yours.

If that were my view, then why do you think I wrote they little analogy that was meant to distinguish a rewardable work versus an abominable work? The real question is why do you two keep accusing me of a mindset I don't hold?

No. The reason I'm interacting is two fold. 1. I think you two are missing a facet within 1 Cor 3. And 2, I may be missing a facet.

So here's your opportunity to teach me what I'm missing; Just exactly what do you think Paul meant by:

1 Corinthians 3:7 So then, neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who is causing it to grow. ​

I'm thinking Paul's point was: 1) God is causing it (His Kingdom of people) to grow and 2) neither Paul nor Apollos were assigned that work. Paul was assigned to "plant the foundation, Christ" throughout the world and Apollos was assigned the work of "watering" the people God caused to come into that Kingdom (through Paul) there in Corinth.

And others have other tasks. Such as mowing the grass in Corinth or elsewhere.

But what's your take on verse 7? Why does Paul say neither himself or Apollos are "anything"? Now you can avoid this question or not. It's up to you.

p.s. If you merely change the subject, I'll think you are ignoring verse 7.

I am probably missing a little more that 1 facet...

 

[JLB]

Umm, everything since it's a part of what Paul was saying here. That is, the part that explains who (and where it came from) is the foundation of his work assignment.

No I don't have to stop. I'll keep it right up until the point that you prove it's wrong. {Potentially inflammable comment}

Can you show us one person in scripture who has ever been saved, and heard these words... Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

[chessman]

So here's your opportunity to teach me what I'm missing; Just exactly what do you think Paul meant by:

1 Corinthians 3:7​

Why does Paul say neither himself or Apollos are "anything"? Now you can avoid this question or not. It's up to you.

..

 

[JLB]

Yes totally.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Umm, everything since it's a part of what Paul was saying here. That is, the part that explains who (and where it came from) is the foundation of his work assignment.

No I don't have to stop. I'll keep it right up until the point that you prove it's wrong. [Potentially inflammable comment]

chessman, your doctrine is the one playing the OSAS angle, not mine (although I can easily defend non-OSAS in this topic in scripture). You're saying that the work burned up can't be the Corinthians because OSAS is true.

But I'm showing you that the Corinthians are the work of the laborers in the building and field of God. They are what is being built:

"...you are God's...building." (1 Corinthians 3:9 NASB)

Then I show that Paul says if what Paul and Apollos, or anybody else, builds does not pass the testing by fire on the Day of Christ, that which they have built (their work) will not remain, and they will have no reward for what they did:

"...the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss..." (1 Corinthians 3:13-15 NASB)

The words of the passage are plain to see: If the work--which even you make the point of saying are true believers because they are God's increase--built by Paul and Apollos, or anybody else, does not pass the test of fire on the Day of Christ, not remaining, then Paul and Apollos, and anyone else who labored in that particular part of the building of Christ will have no reward for their labor.

Leave OSAS out of it. I don't care. The passage plainly says the work is the Corinthians. And then it says that if that work doesn't make it through the fire there is no reward for the laborer who built that work. Plain as day.

 

[chessman]

You're saying that the work burned up can't be the Corinthians because OSAS is true.

No. You keep saying I'm saying that. OSAS could be true or not. Either way, Paul's not saying it is people that get burned up. I said that in post # 54 and consistently since. Leave OSAS out of it.

"...you are God's...building." (1 Corinthians 3:9 NASB)

that's my point. Saved people are God's people (God's ...Building), not Apollos's people/building. God is causing the increase. Apollos is watering God's people. Apollos's work could be rewarded or burned up (he merely watered God's people).

the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss..." (1 Corinthians 3:13-15 NASB)

Man's work!
Paul's work=apostleship,
Apollos' work=ministry
Man's work can be burned up (per Paul).

God's work=causing the increase.
God's work can be burned up per JB AND JLB (but not Paul).

the work--which even you make the point of saying are true believers

you keep saying this. I guess you think it's true. It's not true. I never said the works of Apollos or Paul are the people (believers). The building is metaphoric for the people (God's people) not man's work on/for the building.

That's why Paul plainly says it's God causing the increase. Relative to the increase, Paul/Apollos aren't anything. Workers, sure. But neither Paul or Apollos or you "place people in the Kingdom". God does that part.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

you keep saying this. I guess you think it's true. It's not true. I never said the works of Apollos or Paul are the people (believers).

That's not what I said, chessman. I said you agreed that the building being built by the laborer is the people of God.

The building is metaphoric for the people (God's people)...

That's what I'm saying! You agreed that the building is the people of God.

Then I showed you that the building is the work that either gets burned up, or doesn't get burned up:

"14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. " (1 Corinthians 3:14 NASB)

"Which he has built' is what either passes safely through the fire, or does not, and you agreed that what is built is the people of God.

That's why Paul plainly says it's God causing the increase. Relative to the increase, Paul/Apollos aren't anything. Workers, sure. But neither Paul or Apollos or you "place people in the Kingdom". God does that part.

You're evading the point. The point is I showed you that what Paul and Apollos built--whether through the power of God, or not, is not the point--that is what either makes it through the fire, or doesn't:

"14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss..." (1 Corinthians 3:14 NASB)

And you acknowledged that what is being built is the people of God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I would Get kicked out of this forum if I joined in. God Bless you Chessman.

Do you, also, agree that what is being built in the passage is the building made up of God's people? If so, how do you make the plain words that say what the laborer built is what will be tested by fire and may or may not make it through that fire to be a reward for the worker not mean that?