What "sealed" the words Daniel heard so that he could not understand his own prophecy?

[Alfred Persson]

8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, "My lord, what shall be the end of these things?"
9 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 "Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
(Dan. 12:8-10 NKJ)

Daniel could not understand the words he heard, they were sealed to him. It is said they would be unsealed in the End Time.

Either:
1. God will unseal the words in the end time supernaturally revealing hidden meaning to His prophets.
2. End time events "unseal" the words as events uncover the words can have new application and meaning.

The context indicates #2 is how "many...will understand" (Dan. 12:10) as it is stated the new understanding arises from "wisdom" [critical thinking] to "many", not by a special supernatural gift of understanding to a few prophets.

Therefore, the "many wise" are Bible Believers who employ critical thinking to unseal the words, whereas those who slavishly follow "originalist hermeneutic" interpreting words only as Daniel would, leaves the prophetic words "sealed".

Unknown to Daniel, in the New Covenant the apostles interpret OT Temple imagery as applying to the Church.

Scripture interprets Scripture.

As Christ fulfilled the law the "continual" [08548 תָּמִיד tamiyd] sacrifice (ἡ θυσία δι παντoς, LXX) is now a function of Christ's ministry. Confirming this, the apostles apply Old Testament Temple imagery to the Church, calling it "the Temple of God" (1 Cor. 3:16-17; 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; 2 Thess. 2:4; Eph. 2:21). Born Again Christians are the Temple priests (1 Pet. 2:5) who offer up "the Daily Sacrifice" by their service to Christ their LORD:

you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. (1 Pet. 2:5) NKJ

As we take up Christ's cross daily (Lk. 9:23) our sacrifice and service are the continual [sacrifice]

Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name. (Heb. 13:15) NKJ

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. (Rom. 12:1) NKJ


The above invalidates a the common deduction a literal Jewish temple must exist in the end time for the "daily sacrifice" to be offered. Jesus never implied the destroyed Temple isn't one of the signs that will exist in the end time:


38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate;
39 "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say,`Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!'"

1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
(Matt. 23:38-24:2 NKJ)

 

[RandyK]

Unknown to Daniel, in the New Covenant the apostles interpret OT Temple imagery as applying to the Church.

Scripture interprets Scripture.

As Christ fulfilled the law the "continual" [08548 תָּמִיד tamiyd] sacrifice (ἡ θυσία δι παντoς, LXX) is now a function of Christ's ministry. Confirming this, the apostles apply Old Testament Temple imagery to the Church, calling it "the Temple of God" (1 Cor. 3:16-17; 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; 2 Thess. 2:4; Eph. 2:21). Born Again Christians are the Temple priests (1 Pet. 2:5) who offer up "the Daily Sacrifice" by their service to Christ their LORD:

you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. (1 Pet. 2:5) NKJ

As we take up Christ's cross daily (Lk. 9:23) our sacrifice and service are the continual [sacrifice]

Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name. (Heb. 13:15) NKJ

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. (Rom. 12:1) NKJ


The above invalidates a the common deduction a literal Jewish temple must exist in the end time for the "daily sacrifice" to be offered. Jesus never implied the destroyed Temple isn't one of the signs that will exist in the end time:


38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate;
39 "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say,`Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!'"

1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
(Matt. 23:38-24:2 NKJ)

I think you make a great point, if I understand you correctly. The way I've read it is that these things were *future prophecies,* and as such had limited relevance for Daniel in his time. In principle the things said spoke to him in his environment, since moral/spiritual principles are eternal. However, they were things designed to lead to a culmination in a later era--something less relevant for Daniel in his time.

1 Peter 1.10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

But you bring out an interesting facet of this--why would Daniel not be given more explicit information on this? I have two thoughts on this.

1) God does not want our view of the future to be an exercise in speculation, which is something we all like to do, including myself. God knows we have intense interest in seeing a whole matter, and not just part.

But God does not want us to engage in *excessive* speculation, to the point where we lose our focus on today's ministry and today's concerns. He does want us to see the "bigger picture," but only within certain parameters.

Acts 1.7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

2) The parameters God seems to have set for speculation is framed by the then-current covenant system. Since Israel, and Daniel, were at that time under the Covenant of Moses' Law, God did not want them to peek too far past current law, which would just create confusion and perhaps too much of a libertine attitude towards law that may appear to be fading away.

So as you suggest, what was "sealed" and "closed" likely had something to do with the limitations imposed by the Old Covenant superstructure and law. In the NT era we have a better picture of where those symbols were designed to go, to a new Temple, a new Priesthood, and a new Sacrifice.

John's Revelation was not "closed," even though it was cloaked in subtle, mysterious images. It seems it was "hidden" at most to disguise judgment directed at the Roman world, which would not see blatant prophecies against them as anything more than subversion and rebellion by Jews and Christians.

So Revelation opened up the big picture of the things Antichrist would be opposed to--not just Israel, as Dan 7 seemed to indicate, but the whole world, once the Kingdom of God had passed from Israel to the whole world. This was indeed a much expanded form of Temple, one that fulfilled God's promise to Abraham to consist of "many nations"--not just Israel.

Israel is not excluded from the Church but currently only participates in the Church via a relatively small remnant. The fulfillment of nations in Christianity will take place, I believe, only in a future Millennial Kingdom, after Christ has returned.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I think you make a great point, if I understand you correctly. The way I've read it is that these things were *future prophecies,* and as such had limited relevance for Daniel in his time. In principle the things said spoke to him in his environment, since moral/spiritual principles are eternal. However, they were things designed to lead to a culmination in a later era--something less relevant for Daniel in his time.

1 Peter 1.10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

But you bring out an interesting facet of this--why would Daniel not be given more explicit information on this? I have two thoughts on this.

1) God does not want our view of the future to be an exercise in speculation, which is something we all like to do, including myself. God knows we have intense interest in seeing a whole matter, and not just part.

But God does not want us to engage in *excessive* speculation, to the point where we lose our focus on today's ministry and today's concerns. He does want us to see the "bigger picture," but only within certain parameters.

Acts 1.7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

2) The parameters God seems to have set for speculation is framed by the then-current covenant system. Since Israel, and Daniel, were at that time under the Covenant of Moses' Law, God did not want them to peek too far past current law, which would just create confusion and perhaps too much of a libertine attitude towards law that may appear to be fading away.

So as you suggest, what was "sealed" and "closed" likely had something to do with the limitations imposed by the Old Covenant superstructure and law. In the NT era we have a better picture of where those symbols were designed to go, to a new Temple, a new Priesthood, and a new Sacrifice.

John's Revelation was not "closed," even though it was cloaked in subtle, mysterious images. It seems it was "hidden" at most to disguise judgment directed at the Roman world, which would not see blatant prophecies against them as anything more than subversion and rebellion by Jews and Christians.

So Revelation opened up the big picture of the things Antichrist would be opposed to--not just Israel, as Dan 7 seemed to indicate, but the whole world, once the Kingdom of God had passed from Israel to the whole world. This was indeed a much expanded form of Temple, one that fulfilled God's promise to Abraham to consist of "many nations"--not just Israel.

Israel is not excluded from the Church but currently only participates in the Church via a relatively small remnant. The fulfillment of nations in Christianity will take place, I believe, only in a future Millennial Kingdom, after Christ has returned.

Excellent observations. " God did not want them to peek too far past current law, which would just create confusion," an aspect that never occurred to me, but so obviously true. Thanks for your reply, its well presented.

"Originalist" hermeneutic is sound for interpreting our Constitution, or Scripture for doctrine. But prophecy reveals things that don't exist in the time of the writer. Therefore, one must see things that were impossible for the writer to see, as your quote from Peter 1:10 proves. The NT reveals nuance the OT writers couldn't possibly image, but we can discern are plainly in the prophetic word.

For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations." (Isa. 56:7 NKJ)

 

[miamited]

Hi Alfred Persson

I rather believe that much of what Daniel wrote wasn't understood by him. He had no idea that there would ever be a decree issued to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. He had no idea what nations the beasts that he describes for us would be, except for the one in his day which was Babylon. But he wrote down the things that the angel told him about. That's likely all that he did. As far as understanding all the things that the angel told him to write down, I imagine there was quite a lot that he didn't understand.

"The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future." (Daniel 8:26).

He was just told to seal it up. I take that to mean that there were some things that he was told that he didn't write about. And according to Daniel's own testimony in the next verse, he seems to allude that he didn't understand a lot of it. He claims that the things he was told were beyond understanding. So, I wouldn't be particularly in agreement that Daniel didn't understand the things that he was told to seal up, but yes, there seems to be a lot in many other visions that he received that he would have had no way to understand.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Hi Alfred Persson

I rather believe that much of what Daniel wrote wasn't understood by him. He had no idea that there would ever be a decree issued to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. He had no idea what nations the beasts that he describes for us would be, except for the one in his day which was Babylon. But he wrote down the things that the angel told him about. That's likely all that he did. As far as understanding all the things that the angel told him to write down, I imagine there was quite a lot that he didn't understand.

"The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future." (Daniel 8:26).

He was just told to seal it up. I take that to mean that there were some things that he was told that he didn't write about. And according to Daniel's own testimony in the next verse, he seems to allude that he didn't understand a lot of it. He claims that the things he was told were beyond understanding. So, I wouldn't be particularly in agreement that Daniel didn't understand the things that he was told to seal up, but yes, there seems to be a lot in many other visions that he received that he would have had no way to understand.

We agree over 90%, disagree about "seal up" in this text. I agree the wording is to be "sealed up", not added to. But in context the suggestion is made "critical thinkers" will compare end time events, and "unseal" the words:

4 "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."
...
8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, "My lord, what shall be the end of these things?"
9 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 "Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
(Dan. 12:4-10 NKJ)

Consulting with people everywhere (run to and fro) increases knowledge. The meaning is "sealed" (not what words are used), the "wise" = (critical thinkers will consider things they learned when running to and fro), when interpreting enigma and dark sayings.

They shall understand, but not the wicked even though the words are the same for both.

Therefore, running "to and fro" opens up possible meaning to the words, but the wicked won't take the time to understand possible application or perhaps the meaning is hidden by God because they are wicked.

 

[miamited]

Hi Alfred Persson

And of course, we can't even be sure what is meant by the 'until the time of the end'. The Scriptures speak of the very days that Paul was living were the last days. In Hebrews 1:2 the Scriptures speak of the days being the 'last days'. So, when does this 'time of the end' actually start? Is it all the days of the Gentiles? Are we now, and have been since the resurrection, in the 'time of the end'?

If so, then these are the days that God seems to have wanted man to start understanding the things that Daniel wrote about. And in all honesty, the prophecy of Jesus coming during the 70 sevens that Daniel wrote about wasn't fully understood until after Jesus came, lived his life, and died for sin. Obviously, the vast majority of the Jews didn't understand that Daniel had pinpointed the very days of Jesus' visitation. They refused then, and still to this day, to believe that Jesus who walked among them in Israel, was their Messiah. Even though Daniel's prophecy seems to pinpoint pretty much the very day that he would be with them and Jesus went about proclaiming to all who would listen that he was their Messiah. So, that prophecy seems to have been unclear until after Jesus' time with us.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Hi Alfred Persson

And of course, we can't even be sure what is meant by the 'until the time of the end'. The Scriptures speak of the very days that Paul was living were the last days. In Hebrews 1:2 the Scriptures speak of the days being the 'last days'. So, when does this 'time of the end' actually start? Is it all the days of the Gentiles? Are we now, and have been since the resurrection, in the 'time of the end'?

If so, then these are the days that God seems to have wanted man to start understanding the things that Daniel wrote about. And in all honesty, the prophecy of Jesus coming during the 70 sevens that Daniel wrote about wasn't fully understood until after Jesus came, lived his life, and died for sin. Obviously, the vast majority of the Jews didn't understand that Daniel had pinpointed the very days of Jesus' visitation. They refused then, and still to this day, to believe that Jesus who walked among them in Israel, was their Messiah. Even though Daniel's prophecy seems to pinpoint pretty much the very day that he would be with them and Jesus went about proclaiming to all who would listen that he was their Messiah. So, that prophecy seems to have been unclear until after Jesus' time with us.

Excellent points. The best possible answer to "how can we know" was given by Jesus:

32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 "So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near-- at the doors!
34 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
(Matt. 24:32-34 NKJ)

The generation (40 years?) that sees everything prophesied for the end, will see the end. While that might seem to beg the question, as Jesus is saying everyone will recognize the "things", it implies literal interpretation of prophecy, not "spiritual" or "symbolic." Many of the prophecies require Israel to exist, ruling out the time between 135 AD and 1948.

I think its still sometime years in the future because I look for the global Rebellion against all called God or worshiped (2 Thess. 2:3-4) and appearance of the "Man of Sin" False Christ.

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (2 Thess. 2:3-4 NKJ)

 

[miamited]

Yes, I've come to believe that the end is likely 20-50 years away based on some of the events that we are told will precede the end. But it could be longer or shorter. I'm not making any definite prediction of 'when' it will occur, but as you infer, there are still some prophetic claims of the Scriptures that are yet to be fulfilled. But I do see things definitely moving in the direction of the end of this realm.

I see this issue between Israel and Gaza and Iran as likely being the beginning of the buildup of the day in which we are told that every nation will be against Israel. Some nations seem to still support Israel, but many do not. Even here in the states there are a lot of people who don't support Israel or see them as being God's people.

 

[Elijah7777]

"Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Many scholars and mystics alike have long seen Revelation as the unveiling of what was sealed in Daniel. The two books are deeply intertwined, almost like mirror images across time.

John in Revelation is told, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near” (Revelation 22:10)

 

[miamited]

John in Revelation is told, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near” (Revelation 22:10)

Yes, that was one of the issues I mentioned about the Daniel prophecy, that the time of the end may well be the days that we have been living in since Jesus leaving us. That would align with John writing that it was now time to be revealed as you have found in the writing of the Revelation. John wrote those words about 50-60 years after Jesus left us.

 

[Elijah7777]

Yes, that was one of the issues I mentioned about the Daniel prophecy, that the time of the end may well be the days that we have been living in since Jesus leaving us.

They often say that things become more intense at the end of the age. After all, tribulation has always existed in this world—but Scripture suggests that in the end, it will escalate. What we see now is a foreshadowing of what’s to come, and in truth, this applies to all believers who have lived throughout the last 2,000 years.

I speak not only from Scripture but from legacy—I’m a descendant of the first martyr under Bloody Mary’s persecution. When people say that Christians will face martyrdom, I remind them: persecution has always walked alongside faith. History bears witness to it.

I’m sure many among us could share vivid accounts of the opposition they've faced for following Christ. And though we may not all be called to endure to the point of death, like some, we are all participants in that long tradition of faithful resistance.

 

[ezrider]

We agree over 90%, disagree about "seal up" in this text. I agree the wording is to be "sealed up", not added to. But in context the suggestion is made "critical thinkers" will compare end time events, and "unseal" the words:

4 "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."

Jesus likened this to the parable of the 10 virgins, the 5 that were were and the 5 that were foolish. The foolish run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase. But the knowledge of what? The knowledge of good and evil.


I Thirst is a study I did years ago that goes into the words of the book being sealed.

Stay yourselves, and wonder;
cry ye out, and cry:
they are drunken, but not with wine;
they stagger, but not with strong drink.

Same description given in Acts, this is that which was spoken the the prophet.....


For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep,
and hath closed your eyes:
the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed,
which men deliver to one that is learned,
saying, Read this, I pray thee:
and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned,
saying, Read this, I pray thee:
and he saith, I am not learned.
Wherefore the Lord said,
Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth,
and with their lips do honour me,
but have removed their heart far from me,
and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

 

[Alfred Persson]

Jesus likened this to the parable of the 10 virgins, the 5 that were were and the 5 that were foolish. The foolish run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase. But the knowledge of what? The knowledge of good and evil.


I Thirst is a study I did years ago that goes into the words of the book being sealed.

Stay yourselves, and wonder;
cry ye out, and cry:
they are drunken, but not with wine;
they stagger, but not with strong drink.

Same description given in Acts, this is that which was spoken the the prophet.....


For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep,
and hath closed your eyes:
the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed,
which men deliver to one that is learned,
saying, Read this, I pray thee:
and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned,
saying, Read this, I pray thee:
and he saith, I am not learned.
Wherefore the Lord said,
Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth,
and with their lips do honour me,
but have removed their heart far from me,
and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

I don't agree. Nothing semantically or thematically connects the two contexts, they are referring to completely different things. Labeling what the foolish women did, as the same the wise do in the end time prior to Jesus' coming, is like calling fire, water.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Yes, I've come to believe that the end is likely 20-50 years away based on some of the events that we are told will precede the end. But it could be longer or shorter. I'm not making any definite prediction of 'when' it will occur, but as you infer, there are still some prophetic claims of the Scriptures that are yet to be fulfilled. But I do see things definitely moving in the direction of the end of this realm.

I see this issue between Israel and Gaza and Iran as likely being the beginning of the buildup of the day in which we are told that every nation will be against Israel. Some nations seem to still support Israel, but many do not. Even here in the states there are a lot of people who don't support Israel or see them as being God's people.

We agree totally. I'll mark this incredible event in my calendar! It does seem like seeds are breaking ground that soon will be full grown. People will trace the beginning of these events, as starting in our generation, including those that eventually go from good to bad. The first paves the way for the divergence coming.

For example, and this you won't agree with. Trump's tax, tariff, and deregulation policies will cause America (and Britian) to become far greater than a "superpower", it will become a "mega power". But like all empires, that is when immorality, insanity, corruption, stupidity, takes over, setting the stage for the Antichrist Beast.

 

[ezrider]

I don't agree. Nothing semantically or thematically connects the two contexts, they are referring to completely different things. Labeling what the foolish women did, as the same the wise do in the end time prior to Jesus' coming, is like calling fire, water.

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD,
that I will send a famine in the land,
not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water,
but of hearing the words of the LORD:
And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD,
that I will send a famine in the land,
not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water,
but of hearing the words of the LORD:
And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.

You see a context no one else sees. That is saying it kindly, in conformity with TOS.

The text has nothing to do with my point.

 

[Elijah7777]

America (and Britian) to become far greater than a "superpower", it will become a "mega power".

Historically, Hitler viewed Bolshevism—Soviet communism—as the greater ideological threat to Europe. He believed that the Western powers would eventually align with him against Stalin. In fact, some historians suggest Hitler was shocked when Britain and France declared war on Germany after the invasion of Poland in 1939, rather than turning their attention to the USSR.

During Trump’s first term, Putin even appeared to campaign on his behalf via YouTube. But the dynamics have since shifted, and things are not as smooth between them as they once were. For over fifty years, we’ve lived under the looming shadow of potential nuclear conflict with Russia. And I wouldn’t be so quick to assume that threat has disappeared. Russia may be content to control half the world—but is Trump? Especially when China now seeks a large share of global influence as well.

What could truly elevate us into enduring superpower status is access to resources. Figures like Elon Musk have expressed interest in harvesting asteroids to obtain rare elements vital to our future. My own son worked on the robotic system designed for asteroid core sampling—he even went to Washington to help secure funding.

If we possess the resources that both Russia and China need, that could open the door to lasting peace—perhaps even during the thousand-year reign of Christ, the Kingdom Age. But we’re not there yet. And the transition from now to then may be anything but smooth.