What specifically is "guaranteed to come" in 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5?

[JLB]

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

Just as we pledge our allegiance to Christ as we commit or another word surrender all we are to Him. If we are no longer commited then we no longer pledge our allegiance to Him, but that of the world.

Amen.

 

[JLB]

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I
SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but should raise it up again at the last day." John 6:39

That's just how it goes. Thank God!

Amen.

It’s not God’s will that any should perish, but all should come to repentance.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

• not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Unfortunately not all will come to repentance.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Nice try, but no dice.

? Back tracking are we?

Our confident expectation is not salvation, but an eternity with God. Salvation is a gift of God that is possesses WHEN we believe. Or do you not agree with what Jesus said in John 5:24 and 6:47?

I wouldn’t know because you didn’t quote the scripture but stated your “belief” and quoted scripture references that refer to eternal life, in which salvation is not mentioned.

I quoted your post that’s plainly says a confident expectation of salvation.

Here. It this s below.

If you have the hope of salvation, then obviously you don’t have the salvation you are confidently expecting.

And that's the point! A confident expectation. Of salvation. Not wishful thinking about it.

Please post the scripture that says salvation is a gift of God.



JLB

 

[Papa Zoom]

I usually get ignored on these little posts of mine but I'm looking for (and zeroing in on) what looks like "to the man" arguments. Don't address the person and criticize them or their understanding. For the most part, this is not happening. Not in the last two pages (although I did have to edit one post). I'm just trying to be helpful so that the discussion isn't derailed somehow. Reread your posts to be sure you're covered. Thanks.

 

[for_his_glory]

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

If we are not abiding in Christ and bearing no good fruit anymore God will cut us off from the vine and cast us into the fire (lake of fire) as we are no more none of His. Rev 20:11-15

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

The end of what, the end of days being the last day when Christ returns and cast the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire.
Rev 19

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Grace is unmerited favor even though we do not deserve it and that the gift is that of His only begotten Son Christ Jesus that by faith we believe in Him and only given the promise of eternal life when Christ returns.

Psalms 3: 8 Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah.

Salvation belongs to God who gives it as a free gift through the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7, as we confess Christ with our mouth and believe in our hearth that confession is made unto God's salvation, Romans 10:9, 10, and then we are given the promise that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit that indwells us unto the day of redemption when we receive the promise of our inheritance, which is the last day when Christ returns and we are judged for our works we did for Christ while here on earth. Ephesians 1:3-14, John 5:28, 29.

 

[FreeGrace]

? Back tracking are we?

No. Clarifying.

I wouldn’t know because you didn’t quote the scripture but stated your “belief” and quoted scripture references that refer to eternal life, in which salvation is not mentioned.

That is odd. Who would think that salvation and eternal life are separate? They are synonymous. Can one be saved yet not possess eternal life? No. Can one possess eternal life and yet not be saved? Again, no.

To have one is to have the other. And there are plenty of Scriptures that plainly say that salvation and eternal life are by faith.

I quoted your post that’s plainly says a confident expectation of salvation.

And I clarified. I have a very confident expectation of living with God in eternity. But for now, I'm living in a corrupt physical body on earth.

If you have the hope of salvation, then obviously you don’t have the salvation you are confidently expecting.

How come Christians speak of those who ARE saved then? Are they all in error, and just hopers of some future salvation?

A jailer asked Paul what he must to be BE (present tense) saved, and Paul's answer was to believe (aorist tense) and he would be saved.

So the theory that salvation is only future is false. We have it presently, the moment we believe in Christ.

Otherwise, those who have believed in Christ are still unsaved, but waiting patiently for a future salvation, which is really ridiculous.

Please post the scripture that says salvation is a gift of God.
JLB

Of course.

Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

The subject of this verse is that "you have been saved". The last phrase, "it is the gift of God" is a reference back to our having been saved.

The "it" in the last phrase directly refers to our salvation. The genders are the SAME, which links them.

In any case, since we know that eternal life is a gift of God, from Rom 6:23, and we know that salvation and eternal life are synonymous, we know that salvation is a gift of God.

 

[SytheF]

Please post the scripture that says salvation is a gift of God. JLB

I admit that is a surprising request to read in community. I am not the one of which this request was made however, I would share just one example.

Luke 1:77
To give knowledge of salvation

 

[Honey]

I have no objection to Romans 11:29.

Without question it is impossible to miss that.

I do disagree with isolating this verse and taking it out of context.

That does not matter to me. Isolating verses in order to teach against eternal salvation is contextually offensive.

 

[Honey]

And died in order to seal for eternity the truth of it!
There isn't a like option in this part of the boards and yet, :amen , will have to suffice. I write walls of text to say that same thing you did short and sweet. Bravo for that too.

That's a lot of smileys! :wink I like it.
Jesus told us that in the last days there would be false teachers setting about to mislead even Gods elect. The obligation of those who are in Christ is to recognize that and especially in a forum environment and to defeat the effort of that enemy of righteousness.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, there ARE verses about what happens when someone no longer abies in Christ. But there are NO verses that say that salvation is lost.


How do you not see the works salvation in this statement??


We are saved by grace through faith, and NOT of works. Eph 2:8,9


Please show scholarly evidence that spewing out of the mouth equals losing salvation. It's a metaphor, for heaven sakes.

Please find verses that plainly SAY we can lose salvation, without figures of speech or metaphors.

Verses on how we can lose salvation:

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

These are the things that have caused many to separate themselves from the love of Christ never to return back to Him again. If they never return then they have lost their salvation, but if they do turn back Gods grace is still there as salvtion is Gods to give.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (lost their salvation)

Rev 22: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (lost their salvation)

Never said salvation is by works, but that we continue in the works of Christ as in Matthew 25:34-40; James 1:27. Abiding is not a work, but a commitment we make to Christ.

Rev 3:15 those who God spues out of His mouth He is saying to either be for Him or against Him as there is no fence riding. God gives them space to repent, but many will not.

 

[gr8grace3]

What was Paul referring to in these 2 verses?

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

These 2 verses are directly related to Eph 1:13,14 -
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Now, after guaranteeing what is to come, Paul ends his epistle to the very carnal Corinthian church with this in 2 Cor 12:
20 For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder.

21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.

Hm. Doesn't sound like Christians living like how Christians should be living. Yet he told them of a guarantee that is to come.

Now, I firmly believe that what is guaranteed to come is exactly what Eph 1:14 says; our inheritance. Meaning, all believers, because they are God's children, have an inheritance in heaven.

Rom 8:17a - Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God
So the inheritance of 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5 and Eph 1:14 is for the heirs of God.

There's another inheritance in Rom 8:17b - and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

This is a different inheritance, which is clearly seen by the conditional "if indeed...".

This inheritance is stated a bit differently in 2 Tim 2:12 - if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us;

It should be clear that to "share in His sufferings" from Rom 8:17 is the same as to "endure" in 2 Tim 2:12.

So, it's obvious that those believers who endure, will "co-reign" with Christ. But it's conditional on "sharing in His sufferings".

However, that is for another thread.

My question is for any of those who believe that salvation can be lost:

What is the guarantee that is to come, from 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5?

I am still amazed that you are not a teacher. Great stuff all the way through brother. Keep on keepin on. Thanks.

 

[Honey]

I already have if you read through all three pages as truly there is nothing more to explain other than repeating myself.

Repeatedly arguing Salvation isn't eternal doesn't seem to be a problem.
Had there been scriptural evidence for what I asked for in my post I would not have asked for it.

 

[MCoop]

Verses on how we can lose salvation:

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

These are the things that have caused many to separate themselves from the love of Christ never to return back to Him again. If they never return then they have lost their salvation, but if they do turn back Gods grace is still there as salvtion is Gods to give.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (lost their salvation)

Rev 22: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (lost their salvation)

Never said salvation is by works, but that we continue in the works of Christ as in Matthew 25:34-40; James 1:27. Abiding is not a work, but a commitment we make to Christ.

Rev 3:15 those who God spues out of His mouth He is saying to either be for Him or against Him as there is no fence riding. God gives them space to repent, but many will not.

I’m sure the Judaizers said that salvation isn’t by works either lol! Losing salvation by works is to believe salvation is gained by works and must be maintained by works. The deception is clear to the elect of God in Christ. Riding the fence, are those who can not stand on either side of this topic, like the mods. Eternal life and forgiveness of sins rest in Christ and He alone. Ones works plays no part towards their justification before God. But ones works show evidence of being truly saved by Gods grace

 

[for_his_glory]

His commitment to those who have believed in His Son continues, as seen in Eph 1:14. Whether one dislikes the word "guarantee" or not, that is exactly what God does for those who have believed. Their inheritance for the day of redemption is guaranteed or secured.

And God never lies. Heb 6:18

Yes, to those who believe as I agree with that, but what about all those who have broken their commitment to Christ and have walked away as they quit believing and now follow the lust of the flesh, Romans 8:5-7; 1 John 2:15-17. Do you really think by breaking Gods commandment to not worship idols making them your god as they love the worldmore than God that they still have the promise of eternal life, I don't think so.

 

[for_his_glory]

I’m sure the Judaizers said that salvation isn’t by works either lol! Losing salvation by works is to believe salvation is gained by works and must be maintained by works. The deception is clear to the elect of God in Christ. Riding the fence, are those who can not stand on either side of this topic, like the mods. Eternal life and forgiveness of sins rest in Christ and He alone. Ones works plays no part towards their justification before God. But ones works show evidence of being truly saved by Gods grace

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Where in this does it say we work for our salvation as I never said we do or can. There is no work based salvation as their is nothing we can do of ourselves to earn something that is Gods to freely give to those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God. If you carefully read those scriptures I gave it clearly shows that salvation can only be lost by our own actions against God.

 

[MCoop]

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Where in this does it say we work for our salvation as I never said we do or can. There is no work based salvation as their is nothing we can do of ourselves to earn something that is Gods to freely give to those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God. If you carefully read those scriptures I gave it clearly shows that salvation can only be lost by our own actions against God.

No those scriptures do not teach salvation can be lost. That’s a humanistic works righteousness interpretation. Just teaches that they were NEVER known by God our Savior. These post are full of contradictions

 

[for_his_glory]

Repeatedly arguing Salvation isn't eternal doesn't seem to be a problem.
Had there been scriptural evidence for what I asked for in my post I would not have asked for it.

Reference my posts #105 and 110

 

[for_his_glory]

No those scriptures do not teach salvation can be lost. That’s a humanistic works righteousness interpretation. Just teaches that they were NEVER known by God our Savior. These post are full of contradictions

These verses say it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance if they shall fall away. Am I reading this wrong?

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[MCoop]

These verses say it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance if they shall fall away. Am I reading this wrong?

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Yes you are. Then you would have to believe Gods Word contradicts each other. As Jesus said, whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. John 3:16. In verse 9 of Hebrews 6 it speaks this way, But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that ACCOMPANY salvation.. Much like the Judaizers teachings and Paul’s rebuke of them in the book of Galatians about their false gospel, this warning is similar to professors in Christ who turn back to world or seek to justify themselves by their self righteous works. Turning back to Judaism or seeking to justify themselves by their works from the gospel of grace, would be an evidence of the hardness of their unregenerate hearts. And it’s definitely not what truly accompanies salvation in Christ. Those who teach a regenerated child of God can lose their salvation by their works are actually the ones committing the very error the passage itself warns against. Much like the Judaizers, these professors teach Christ and His merits alone are insufficient to save apart from works. And by doing so turn many away from seeking God’s mercy for forgiveness and to be found in Christ and His righteousness alone for their salvation

 

[chessman]

Exactly as I have been saying.

Paul said the Holy Spirit is a pledge until our final redemption.

Saying the Spirit is a pledge as long as we continue to believe and abide in Christ, contradicts Paul.

It's a down payment, or earnest.

It’s The Holy Spirit, God, not money!

Therefore, what shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? ​

Romans 8:31 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 8:37&version=DLNT

Verses on how we can lose salvation:

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

The above questions are rhetorical questions (which BTW, does mention loss of salvation). Read on, Paul answers it.

But in all these things we overwhelmingly-conquer through the One having loved us.​

V37