When did the Law pass or has it passed away?

[Ryan]

No Christ fulfilled this scripture, and He alone is that which every man should seek.

In fact I am more jewish than those who are jew by birth.
Rom 2:28-29

I need no piece of cloth nor other nonsense to hold on too, I have the Holy Spirit and Christ in me.

Let scripture, the very Word of God do the talking.

Hebrews 10 26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Plain as day.

Yes plain as day! the whole book of Hebrews is a warning to those who are turning from faith back to law. The "sin" mentioned throughout this book is the sin of UNBELIEF!

For the law is not of faith. and the strength of sin is the law!

So the "willful sin" is to reject grace, and count the Blood of Christ as common as the blood of animals.

Yes you should be very afraid!

I have asserted that we as believers in Christ are told to walk as he did. In accordance to his Torah, that he lived out perfectly. Somehow that is now a sin to do so. Somehow that is now wrong. Somehow that is rejecting Christ. Would you like to bash again the very religion Jesus observed?

 

[JLB]

It was the religion, or faith that most closely resembles what Paul, the Apostles and our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ taught and practiced. That is pretty good company to follow. I think I will follow their example, not yours and Mitspa's thank you very much.

Jesus came to give Relationship with God, not Religion.

All Religions have their roots in Babylon.

Babylon is the "mother" of all harlots.

The tower of Babel is mans effort to get to God by his own works. By his own strength. By his own way.

You seem to have no problem with mixing together religion and faith, which is what Messianic Judaism is, a mixture.

God is Holy. Holy is pure.

Holiness doesn't come from man, or by mans efforts.

Jesus is our holiness.

We are free to obey His Voice. His Spirit dwells in us to communicate with us.

His Spirit is in us to teach us, this is the foundational intent of the New Covenant.

31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." Jeremiah 31:31-34

... not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day. In which people had to "learn about" God.

No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

John affirms this New Covenant lifestyle in his words -

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

We are free to be led by The Spirit so that when we hear Him say -

Go to a street called straight...

Or go to the house of Cornelius...

We can freely obey His Voice.

Obeying His Voice and what He commands us to do is the foundation of the Covenant The Lord made with Abraham and it has not changed.

People "try" to bring us back under the bondage of fleshly rules and dead works, when God Himself is now living on the inside of us and freely direct us to do His Commandments which are what He says to us everyday, not a set of rules to keep.

What He commands us is unique to each individual.

To Abraham it was His command to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

To Noah it was being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

For Enoch is was the call to walk with God.

For as many as are led by The spirit of God, these are the sons of God.


JLB

 

[Ryan]

It was the religion, or faith that most closely resembles what Paul, the Apostles and our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ taught and practiced. That is pretty good company to follow. I think I will follow their example, not yours and Mitspa's thank you very much.

Jesus came to give Relationship with God, not Religion.

All Religions have their roots in Babylon.

Babylon is the "mother" of all harlots.

The tower of Babel is mans effort to get to God by his own works. By his own strength. By his own way.

You seem to have no problem with mixing together religion and faith, which is what Messianic Judaism is, a mixture.

God is Holy. Holy is pure.

Holiness doesn't come from man, or by mans efforts.

Jesus is our holiness.

We are free to obey His Voice. His Spirit dwells in us to communicate with us.

His Spirit is in us to teach us, this is the foundational intent of the New Covenant.

31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." Jeremiah 31:31-34

... not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day. In which people had to "learn about" God.

No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

John affirms this New Covenant lifestyle in his words -

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

We are free to be led by The Spirit so that when we hear Him say -

Go to a street called straight...

Or go to the house of Cornelius...

We can freely obey His Voice.

Obeying His Voice and what He commands us to do is the foundation of the Covenant The Lord made with Abraham and it has not changed.

People "try" to bring us back under the bondage of fleshly rules and dead works, when God Himself is now living on the inside of us and freely direct us to do His Commandments which are what He says to us everyday, not a set of rules to keep.

What He commands us is unique to each individual.

To Abraham it was His command to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

To Noah it was being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

For Enoch is was the call to walk with God.

For as many as are led by The spirit of God, these are the sons of God.


JLB

Your subtle referencing Messianic Judaism is harlotry is misleading. That is what people do when they are threatened by something else. Attack without evidence. Messianic Judaism has at our centre Jesus whom salvation apart from faith is impossible. We believe after receiving salvation, the Word has provided us instructions and teachings from the WHOLE of scriptures, Genesis to Revelation. Torah is the foundation, and scripture rests on those first five books. Nothing can be in disagreement with those first five books. So when one says the law is a curse, that is not true because God says he gave the law as a blessing. So the interpretation has to be inaccurate. We love our Christian brothers and sisters, and in Christ there is no difference. I do not like glaring inconsistencies, but why do you accept them?

 

[Mitspa]

No Christ fulfilled this scripture, and He alone is that which every man should seek.

In fact I am more jewish than those who are jew by birth.
Rom 2:28-29

I need no piece of cloth nor other nonsense to hold on too, I have the Holy Spirit and Christ in me.

Let scripture, the very Word of God do the talking.

Hebrews 10 26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Plain as day.

Yes plain as day! the whole book of Hebrews is a warning to those who are turning from faith back to law. The "sin" mentioned throughout this book is the sin of UNBELIEF!

For the law is not of faith. and the strength of sin is the law!

So the "willful sin" is to reject grace, and count the Blood of Christ as common as the blood of animals.

Yes you should be very afraid!

I have asserted that we as believers in Christ are told to walk as he did. In accordance to his Torah, that he lived out perfectly. Somehow that is now a sin to do so. Somehow that is now wrong. Somehow that is rejecting Christ. Would you like to bash again the very religion Jesus observed?

Yes! the law is not of faith! and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Yes that someone rejects God righteousness and goes about to establish their own by the law. Is in fact a rejection of Christ and His Cross.

Rom 3:19-23 This is the gospel.

 

[Mitspa]

It was the religion, or faith that most closely resembles what Paul, the Apostles and our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ taught and practiced. That is pretty good company to follow. I think I will follow their example, not yours and Mitspa's thank you very much.

Jesus came to give Relationship with God, not Religion.

All Religions have their roots in Babylon.

Babylon is the "mother" of all harlots.

The tower of Babel is mans effort to get to God by his own works. By his own strength. By his own way.

You seem to have no problem with mixing together religion and faith, which is what Messianic Judaism is, a mixture.

God is Holy. Holy is pure.

Holiness doesn't come from man, or by mans efforts.

Jesus is our holiness.

We are free to obey His Voice. His Spirit dwells in us to communicate with us.

His Spirit is in us to teach us, this is the foundational intent of the New Covenant.

31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." Jeremiah 31:31-34

... not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day. In which people had to "learn about" God.

No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

John affirms this New Covenant lifestyle in his words -

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

We are free to be led by The Spirit so that when we hear Him say -

Go to a street called straight...

Or go to the house of Cornelius...

We can freely obey His Voice.

Obeying His Voice and what He commands us to do is the foundation of the Covenant The Lord made with Abraham and it has not changed.

People "try" to bring us back under the bondage of fleshly rules and dead works, when God Himself is now living on the inside of us and freely direct us to do His Commandments which are what He says to us everyday, not a set of rules to keep.

What He commands us is unique to each individual.

To Abraham it was His command to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

To Noah it was being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

For Enoch is was the call to walk with God.

For as many as are led by The spirit of God, these are the sons of God.


JLB

Your subtle referencing Messianic Judaism is harlotry is misleading. That is what people do when they are threatened by something else. Attack without evidence. Messianic Judaism has at our centre Jesus whom salvation apart from faith is impossible. We believe after receiving salvation, the Word has provided us instructions and teachings from the WHOLE of scriptures, Genesis to Revelation. Torah is the foundation, and scripture rests on those first five books. Nothing can be in disagreement with those first five books. So when one says the law is a curse, that is not true because God says he gave the law as a blessing. So the interpretation has to be inaccurate. We love our Christian brothers and sisters, and in Christ there is no difference. I do not like glaring inconsistencies, but why do you accept them?

Sorry Paul dissgrees in clear terms!
Gal 3:10-12

FOR AS MANY AS ARE UNDER THE WORKS OF THE LAW ARE UNDER ITS CURSE.

There it is in clear and evident words!

 

[Ryan]

Yes plain as day! the whole book of Hebrews is a warning to those who are turning from faith back to law. The "sin" mentioned throughout this book is the sin of UNBELIEF!

For the law is not of faith. and the strength of sin is the law!

So the "willful sin" is to reject grace, and count the Blood of Christ as common as the blood of animals.

Yes you should be very afraid!

I have asserted that we as believers in Christ are told to walk as he did. In accordance to his Torah, that he lived out perfectly. Somehow that is now a sin to do so. Somehow that is now wrong. Somehow that is rejecting Christ. Would you like to bash again the very religion Jesus observed?

Yes! the law is not of faith! and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Yes that someone rejects God righteousness and goes about to establish their own by the law. Is in fact a rejection of Christ and His Cross.

Rom 3:19-23 This is the gospel.

Dust will be kicked off the sandals once again. Lets talk when you have something else to contribute other than the same 15 posts over and over. Try quoting Leviticus. It's a great book! Till next time.

 

[Mitspa]

Yes plain as day! the whole book of Hebrews is a warning to those who are turning from faith back to law. The "sin" mentioned throughout this book is the sin of UNBELIEF!

For the law is not of faith. and the strength of sin is the law!

So the "willful sin" is to reject grace, and count the Blood of Christ as common as the blood of animals.

Yes you should be very afraid!

I have asserted that we as believers in Christ are told to walk as he did. In accordance to his Torah, that he lived out perfectly. Somehow that is now a sin to do so. Somehow that is now wrong. Somehow that is rejecting Christ. Would you like to bash again the very religion Jesus observed?

Yes! the law is not of faith! and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Yes that someone rejects God righteousness and goes about to establish their own by the law. Is in fact a rejection of Christ and His Cross.

Rom 3:19-23 This is the gospel.

Dust will be kicked off the sandals once again. Lets talk when you have something else to contribute other than the same 15 posts over and over. Try quoting Leviticus. It's a great book! Till next time.

Well the truth hurts, but as the pharisee was cut to the heart at the words of My Lord, it is for your own good.
Rom 1:16-18

 

[JLB]

That is what people do when they are threatened by something else. Attack without evidence. Messianic Judaism has at our centre Jesus whom salvation apart from faith is impossible.

Any form of Judaism is religion.

Being sons of God is what was always intended.

What kind of religion do you have with your son?

God intends for us to come to Him and learn from Him "good from evil". Not learn what is good and what is evil from man.

Judaism is what man turned Covenant relationship in to.

God, by His Grace gave the children of Israel laws, which would enable Him to continue to bless them with the blessings of Abraham because they had been in Egypt for 430 years.

He also gave them them innocent animals to sacrifice when they broke His laws.

The law of Moses was added [without changing] to the covenant He made with Abraham, temporarily.

By the time The Seed had come, they had added so many laws, via additional writings, which became traditions.

Paul in a nutshell reveals the antichrist nature of Judaism in his words -

12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. Galatians 1:12-14


how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

Judaism is not what God gave.

Judaism is a religion of man.

It is the religion of the Pharisee's and Saducee's that murdered Christ Jesus.

Judaism is an antichrist religion.

Paul states that Judaism is a religion that has within it the traditions on men, and has at its heart the anti christian persecuting nature that drove him to murder Christians.

Jesus calls this persecuting Him, as it is written -

Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me!

It doesn't get any more antichrist that to murder Jesus and those whose are His.


JLB

 

[Ryan]

Yes! the law is not of faith! and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Yes that someone rejects God righteousness and goes about to establish their own by the law. Is in fact a rejection of Christ and His Cross.

Rom 3:19-23 This is the gospel.

Dust will be kicked off the sandals once again. Lets talk when you have something else to contribute other than the same 15 posts over and over. Try quoting Leviticus. It's a great book! Till next time.

Well the truth hurts, but as the pharisee was cut to the heart at the words of My Lord, it is for your own good.
Rom 1:16-18

I love you Mitspa.

You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:18 NASB

 

[Ryan]

That is what people do when they are threatened by something else. Attack without evidence. Messianic Judaism has at our centre Jesus whom salvation apart from faith is impossible.

Any form of Judaism is religion.

Being sons of God is what was always intended.

What kind of religion do you have with your son?

God intends for us to come to Him and learn from Him "good from evil". Not learn what is good and what is evil from man.

Judaism is what man turned Covenant relationship in to.

God, by His Grace gave the children of Israel laws, which would enable Him to continue to bless them with the blessings of Abraham because they had been in Egypt for 430 years.

He also gave them them innocent animals to sacrifice when they broke His laws.

The law of Moses was added [without changing] to the covenant He made with Abraham, temporarily.

By the time The Seed had come, they had added so many laws, via additional writings, which became traditions.

Paul in a nutshell reveals the antichrist nature of Judaism in his words -

12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. Galatians 1:12-14


how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

Judaism is not what God gave.

Judaism is a religion of man.

It is the religion of the Pharisee's and Saducee's that murdered Christ Jesus.

Judaism is an antichrist religion.

Paul states that Judaism is a religion that has within it the traditions on men, and has at its heart the anti christian persecuting nature that drove him to murder Christians.

Jesus calls this persecuting Him, as it is written -

Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me!

It doesn't get any more antichrist that to murder Jesus and those whose are His.


JLB

Completely saddened by this. Likening Messianic Judaism to the antichrist. You really have no idea what you are saying.

 

[JLB]

That is what people do when they are threatened by something else. Attack without evidence. Messianic Judaism has at our centre Jesus whom salvation apart from faith is impossible.

Any form of Judaism is religion.

Being sons of God is what was always intended.

What kind of religion do you have with your son?

God intends for us to come to Him and learn from Him "good from evil". Not learn what is good and what is evil from man.

Judaism is what man turned Covenant relationship in to.

God, by His Grace gave the children of Israel laws, which would enable Him to continue to bless them with the blessings of Abraham because they had been in Egypt for 430 years.

He also gave them them innocent animals to sacrifice when they broke His laws.

The law of Moses was added [without changing] to the covenant He made with Abraham, temporarily.

By the time The Seed had come, they had added so many laws, via additional writings, which became traditions.

Paul in a nutshell reveals the antichrist nature of Judaism in his words -

12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. Galatians 1:12-14


how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

Judaism is not what God gave.

Judaism is a religion of man.

It is the religion of the Pharisee's and Saducee's that murdered Christ Jesus.

Judaism is an antichrist religion.

Paul states that Judaism is a religion that has within it the traditions on men, and has at its heart the anti christian persecuting nature that drove him to murder Christians.

Jesus calls this persecuting Him, as it is written -

Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me!

It doesn't get any more antichrist that to murder Jesus and those whose are His.


JLB

Completely saddened by this. Likening Messianic Judaism to the antichrist. You really have no idea what you are saying.

Ok, lets reason together.

I quoted scripture.

Here is the scripture I quoted -

2 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. Galatians 1:12-14

Here are some things that Paul said in these verses -

I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

Did the Law of Moses make provision for Crucifying Christ and murdering His followers?

JLB

 

[Ryan]

Pp

That is what people do when they are threatened by something else. Attack without evidence. Messianic Judaism has at our centre Jesus whom salvation apart from faith is impossible.

Any form of Judaism is religion.

Being sons of God is what was always intended.

What kind of religion do you have with your son?

God intends for us to come to Him and learn from Him "good from evil". Not learn what is good and what is evil from man.

Judaism is what man turned Covenant relationship in to.

God, by His Grace gave the children of Israel laws, which would enable Him to continue to bless them with the blessings of Abraham because they had been in Egypt for 430 years.

He also gave them them innocent animals to sacrifice when they broke His laws.

The law of Moses was added [without changing] to the covenant He made with Abraham, temporarily.

By the time The Seed had come, they had added so many laws, via additional writings, which became traditions.

Paul in a nutshell reveals the antichrist nature of Judaism in his words -

12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. Galatians 1:12-14


how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

Judaism is not what God gave.

Judaism is a religion of man.

It is the religion of the Pharisee's and Saducee's that murdered Christ Jesus.

Judaism is an antichrist religion.

Paul states that Judaism is a religion that has within it the traditions on men, and has at its heart the anti christian persecuting nature that drove him to murder Christians.

Jesus calls this persecuting Him, as it is written -

Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me!

It doesn't get any more antichrist that to murder Jesus and those whose are His.


JLB

Completely saddened by this. Likening Messianic Judaism to the antichrist. You really have no idea what you are saying.

Ok, lets reason together.

I quoted scripture.

Here is the scripture I quoted -

2 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. Galatians 1:12-14

Here are some things that Paul said in these verses -

I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

Did the Law of Moses make provision for Crucifying Christ and murdering His followers?

JLB

This solely talking about his persecution of the believers. Now that he has accepted the Messiah, he is recalling the days of overseeing the murder of innocent men. It says nothing about turning his back to the Torah, solely about his conduct. Paul identified though with the Jewish religion till the end.

Acts 23:6 But perceiving that one group were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, “Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!”

He proclaimed as still being a Pharisee. That doesn't sound like a man who turned his back on the Jewish faith now does it?.

So another glaring contradiction for you how you tried to put a meaning into a passage only for another verse to contradict yourthinking.

The Jews rejected him, the Romans killed him. What a disgusting thought that God's very own laws and instructions killed him. Jesus had to die because of our sins for not following his Torah.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is Ryan trying to be justified by the law of Moses? I haven't been following real closely, but from what I can see, I doubt it.

Is Ryan defending the law of Moses in terms of silly Rabbinical add-on's? Not that I can see.


It's a hard pill to swallow for us in the church, but God never intended for us to abandon the basic structure of worship and relating to him given in the law of Moses. He did intend that it be understood properly and exercised according to the revelation of Messiah.

Of course, all that can be heard right now is, "justification by works of the law". For all the wrangling the church does, the indoctrination of grace/law that the church is presently saddled with is easily, hands down the most stubborn and overwhelming one. Easily.

Honest people will not let the hard to deny points that Messianics make just go away. Sooner or later, because they are honest, they will let the defenses down and understand how the truths they know and defend fit into New Covenant life. That's what happened to me.

Of course, this is still being understood as "justification by the law of Moses", lol. Thus proving my point. :yes

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Completely saddened by this. Likening Messianic Judaism to the antichrist. You really have no idea what you are saying.

They don't Ryan. They really don't.

If there was ever a "forgive them for they know not what they do" moment, it is in regard to the church and how she so vehemently defends herself against acknowledging the law. We have been vicitimized by the spiritless, godless teachings of the early church which were undeniably anti-semitic. Somewhere along the line everything and anything 'law' became the four letter word of the church instead of what Paul said is what is wrong with law--trying to be justified by the law of Moses, not upholding the law through faith in Jesus. The curse of the law stupidly went from 'not keeping everything written', to 'keeping anything written'.

 

[Mitspa]

Is Ryan trying to be justified by the law of Moses? I haven't been following real closely, but from what I can see, I doubt it.

Is Ryan defending the law of Moses in terms of silly Rabbinical add-on's? Not that I can see.


It's a hard pill to swallow for us in the church, but God never intended for us to abandon the basic structure of worship and relating to him given in the law of Moses. He did intend that it be understood properly and exercised according to the revelation of Messiah.

Of course, all that can be heard right now is, "justification by works of the law". For all the wrangling the church does, the indoctrination of grace/law that the church is presently saddled with is easily, hands down the most stubborn and overwhelming one. Easily.

Honest people will not let the hard to deny points that Messianics make just go away. Sooner or later, because they are honest, they will let the defenses down and understand how the truths they know and defend fit into New Covenant life. That's what happened to me.

Of course, this is still being understood as "justification by the law of Moses", lol. Thus proving my point. :yes

Of course that is what Ryan is trying to promote, and you as well in large degree. But we who have liberty will not be moved from the truth of the Gospel. "Cast out the bondwoman and her son" is the cry of the Holy Spirit! THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH, WHATSOEVER IS NOT OF FAITH IS SIN.

we should purge the "church" from those who willingly sin.

 

[Mitspa]

Gal 4:21-26
Php 3:2-3

 

[Mitspa]

Pp

Completely saddened by this. Likening Messianic Judaism to the antichrist. You really have no idea what you are saying.

Ok, lets reason together.

I quoted scripture.

Here is the scripture I quoted -

2 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. Galatians 1:12-14

Here are some things that Paul said in these verses -

I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

Did the Law of Moses make provision for Crucifying Christ and murdering His followers?

JLB

This solely talking about his persecution of the believers. Now that he has accepted the Messiah, he is recalling the days of overseeing the murder of innocent men. It says nothing about turning his back to the Torah, solely about his conduct. Paul identified though with the Jewish religion till the end.

Acts 23:6 But perceiving that one group were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, “Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!”

He proclaimed as still being a Pharisee. That doesn't sound like a man who turned his back on the Jewish faith now does it?.

So another glaring contradiction for you how you tried to put a meaning into a passage only for another verse to contradict yourthinking.

The Jews rejected him, the Romans killed him. What a disgusting thought that God's very own laws and instructions killed him. Jesus had to die because of our sins for not following his Torah.

Yes of course Paul turn from the written code and traditions, because they were fulfilled in Christ. Php 3:3-9

And of course none of you keep the law, but are breakers of the law.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Of course, this is still being understood as "justification by the law of Moses", lol. Thus proving my point. :yes

Of course that is what Ryan is trying to promote, and you as well in large degree. But we who have liberty will not be moved from the truth of the Gospel. "Cast out the bondwoman and her son" is the cry of the Holy Spirit! THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH, WHATSOEVER IS NOT OF FAITH IS SIN.

we should purge the "church" from those who willingly sin.

It's funny but after I made my last post I was in the kitchen fixing my third and last sausage sandwich and I was thinking how the Jews will string you up for any perception of coming against the law, but just as sadly, the church will string you up for suggesting any sympathies for it.

Thank you for confirming my thoughts.

The truly, truly sad part is, Mitspa, you won't give anyone the time, space, and dignity of explaining the rational middle ground between the two extremes of law/ no law. This is what murderous, violent, false religion is ALL about. Summed up in a word: headstrong indoctrination.

How sad it is. Are you humble enough to examine the arguments if I take the time to walk you through them? I'm guessing prolly not because you are sure you already know everything, right? The student who thinks he knows it all now, obviously, has ceased to learn.

We could start here:

Do you 'not murder', or 'not steal' because you are trying to be justified by that obedience? I'm confident the answer is, 'no'. So how is it that Ryan's desire to keep various laws in the Law of Moses can not be anything other than trying to be justified by those obediences? Can you humble yourself enough to examine this train of thought with me, Mitspa...or anyone else?

 

[Mitspa]

Yes! the law is not of faith! and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Yes that someone rejects God righteousness and goes about to establish their own by the law. Is in fact a rejection of Christ and His Cross.

Rom 3:19-23 This is the gospel.

Dust will be kicked off the sandals once again. Lets talk when you have something else to contribute other than the same 15 posts over and over. Try quoting Leviticus. It's a great book! Till next time.

Well the truth hurts, but as the pharisee was cut to the heart at the words of My Lord, it is for your own good.
Rom 1:16-18

I love you Mitspa.

You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:18 NASB

Good thats a good start! Now walk in love and you have fulfilled all the law.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And of course none of you keep the law, but are breakers of the law.

I am absolutely convinced you do not know the gospel of Jesus Christ as well as you claim to know, and believe you have been called and anointed to teach.

Obviously, using your own reasoning, you also are a law breaker. Somehow if one's set of 'rules' is clearly identified as the Law of Moses you have to keep it perfectly, but if your 'rule' is 'love your neighbor as yourself' it somehow doesn't have to be kept perfectly. (As if 'love your neighbor as yourself' is not the Law of Moses anyway, lol).

This is why I say you do not understand the gospel as well as you think you do.