When did the Law pass or has it passed away?

[JLB]

Yes in fact the written code and it standard have passed away for those who are justified in Christ.
FOR CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW, FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
we who are in Christ are judged by the law of faith and the commandment of Christ " THIS IS MY COMMANDMENT, THAT YOU LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU"

as Paul summed up the gospel in its simplicty!
NOTHING PROFITS ANYTHING BUT FAITH WORKING BY LOVE.

this is the gospel! The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has set me free from the law of sin and death. (the written code)

The law of sin and death began in the Garden of Eden.

21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:21-22

The Law of sin and death is God's Law.

The Law of Moses was a tutor, to teach the children of Israel that this law was in fact in effect.

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Hebrews 10:4

It is also not possible to please God without faith.

God's Laws are written, [embedded] in the nature of Christ with in us.

We uphold God's Laws when we are led by God's Spirit.

This of course is not the Law of Moses.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Sorry the letter cannot judge the spirit.

Sorry, yes it can.

Every unbeliever will be judged by the letter of the law. Just not in regard to being justified (MADE righteous), or not.

Now a justified and righteous in Christ believer is not judged by the letter.

In regard to whether or not they are walking in the Spirit, yes it can. I showed you the plain scriptures that show this. It's not a justification issue. It's a 'have I been walking in the Spirit' issue. And, ultimately, it will show if you're really in Christ, or not. John says we can even use our obedience to the law to put our hearts at rest when it condemns us. I proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

We who have no confidence in the flesh are the ones who "uphold" the law and its unbending written standard.

We know this, but when you don't do that the law will testify against your behavior. Again, this is not a justification issue for the believer...unless your disobedience is because you're not born again in the first place.

The law stands as a witness to Christ and Christ in us.

This is what I've been saying, but for some reason you can only hear what I'm saying as 'justification by law'.

Love is the fulfillment of the law. For those who love another have fulfilled the law.

Thus we can tell if we have loved another by if we have fulfilled the law.

As I have shown, James and John both use Deuteronomy 15:7-8 as a law that shows if we have loved others in action and not just empty words that count nothing toward towards the faith that justifies.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We uphold God's Laws when we are led by God's Spirit.

This of course is not the Law of Moses.

Not the law of Moses, eh? That's not what Paul says:

"28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." (Romans 3:28, 31 NASB)

You've been victimized by the spiritless rationalizing of a church that couldn't reconcile Paul's 'justification apart from works' with James' 'justification by works'. To fix what they couldn't discern spiritually they decided that they were talking about two different laws. The Bible does not support this at all.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes in fact the written code and it standard have passed away for those who are justified in Christ.

It has passed away as a standard by which one is justified (MADE righteous). Not as a standard for the righteous behavior of the person in Christ.

FOR CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW, FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

But Christ is NOT the end of the requirements of the law. Faith in him is the new WAY to uphold what still remains to be literally kept of the law of Moses.

we who are in Christ are judged by the law of faith and the commandment of Christ " THIS IS MY COMMANDMENT, THAT YOU LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU"

as Paul summed up the gospel in its simplicty!
NOTHING PROFITS ANYTHING BUT FAITH WORKING BY LOVE.

The new WAY of faith is the simplicity of the gospel. But the Bible also says I can know if my faith is in fact working by love by, for example, I keep Deuteronomy 15:7-8.

Don't leave that out of the gospel. It's right there in the pages of our Bibles.

 

[JLB]

We uphold God's Laws when we are led by God's Spirit.

This of course is not the Law of Moses.

Not the law of Moses, eh? That's not what Paul says:

"28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." (Romans 3:28, 31 NASB)

You've been victimized by the spiritless rationalizing of a church that couldn't reconcile Paul's 'justification apart from works' with James' 'justification by works'. To fix what they couldn't discern spiritually they decided that they were talking about two different laws. The Bible does not support this at all.

Your not going to hypnotize me with the weak Jedi mind trick so I will just hold still during your You've been victimized by the spiritless rationalizing speech, while you just slip the end of that hose with the cattle "plunger' up to my forehead and...

I notice in your use of Romans 3:28 you use verse 31 afterward, which in and of itself is okay. However i would draw your attention to the legal argument Paul is making and notice which two laws he is comparing in his argument.

26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Paul is discussing the law of works and the law of faith.

Lets discuss Romans 3 some more. I see some things in the language that I would like to discuss. I would like to use your perception and insight to bring out these truths so that we may distinguish between the laws that are discussed.

For example Paul states -

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,


JLB

 

[Ryan]

Here is a scripture for you to reflect on.

It has to do with returning to the law and the sacrifices of the temple.

The setting is the third temple, just before Jesus returns -

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12

... And for this reason God will send them strong delusion,

The strong delusion that God sends them is "another messiah" who works signs and wonders from the temple, because the Jews have rejected Jesus and built another Temple and have returned to the Law.

The messianic movement is conditioning people unto the "falling away from the faith in Jesus".

... the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

A return to the Law of Moses is what the Jews are planning.

Undoubtedly many will be saved, however there will those who run after this "messiah" when he puts an end to "sacrifice and offering".


JLB

I have to ask first, what do you believe is the Law of Moses? What have you heard?

 

[JLB]

Here is a scripture for you to reflect on.

It has to do with returning to the law and the sacrifices of the temple.

The setting is the third temple, just before Jesus returns -

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12

... And for this reason God will send them strong delusion,

The strong delusion that God sends them is "another messiah" who works signs and wonders from the temple, because the Jews have rejected Jesus and built another Temple and have returned to the Law.

The messianic movement is conditioning people unto the "falling away from the faith in Jesus".

... the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

A return to the Law of Moses is what the Jews are planning.

Undoubtedly many will be saved, however there will those who run after this "messiah" when he puts an end to "sacrifice and offering".


JLB

I have to ask first, what do you believe is the Law of Moses? What have you heard?

The Law of Moses included the 10 commandments and the ordinances and instructions for building the Ark as well as the contents of the Ark, The Tabernacle as well as directions for the Priesthood...

Of which Joshua continued what was commanded and written in the Book of the law of Moses -

30 Now Joshua built an altar to the Lord God of Israel in Mount Ebal, 31 as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the Book of the Law of Moses: "an altar of whole stones over which no man has wielded an iron tool." And they offered on it burnt offerings to the Lord, and sacrificed peace offerings. 32 And there, in the presence of the children of Israel, he wrote on the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he had written. 33 Then all Israel, with their elders and officers and judges, stood on either side of the ark before the priests, the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, the stranger as well as he who was born among them. Half of them were in front of Mount Gerizim and half of them in front of Mount Ebal, as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded before, that they should bless the people of Israel. 34 And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and the cursings, according to all that is written in the Book of the Law. 35 There was not a word of all that Moses had commanded which Joshua did not read before all the assembly of Israel, with the women, the little ones, and the strangers who were living among them. Joshua 8:30-35

The Law from Moses.

Not the First Five Books known as The Torah, of which Moses wrote, which contain the account of Adam and the various geneologies as well as Abraham and so forth.

This does not serve to explain all of the details of the law of Moses.

The law of sin and death is God's Law.

The law of Gravity is God's law.

The 10 commandments were given to Moses, and were around before Moses.

The Sabbath as it was given by Moses to keep with all the rules and so forth would be the exception.

The Sabbath was from the beginning, but as a day of rest for man and was a foreshadow of the rest we have in Christ and the "seventh Day" which prophetically is the 1000 years. That is another issue.


JLB

 

[francisdesales]

...very few people are trying to become Jews now that they are Christian believers... We are no longer in the first century, where Judaizers were a big problem.

I agree.

What I see alive and well today is the 'do nothing', 'knowledge saves' Judaism of Paul's day.

Of course, this will be interpreted by most as advocating a 'justification by works of the law' gospel. Which it hardly is.

Yes, we seem to be undergoing a different issue than the first century!

Regards

 

[Ryan]

Do you believe the Law of Moses is just Genesis to Deuteronomy? This is important to help explain my position.

 

[francisdesales]

Luther did not write, THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH nor did he he write WHATEVER IS NOT OF FAITH IS SIN.

No, but I believe that Scripture has something else in mind than what you are proposing, with all due respect. Paul is arguing v "works of the Law". That is the context.

The Holy Spirit of God wrote that through the Apostle Paul.

Indeed, much has been inspired by God's Spirit, to include other writings attributed to humans other than St. Paul...

Who also wrote; THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW.

Because we, with knowledge of what sin is, know we have failed God, committed a transgression against the Holy One. However, the Law makes it known to us, it does not CAUSE us to sin, and that is where you are failing to teach properly.

THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

FOR SIN WILL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE.

CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

BUT THAT NO MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW IN THE SIGHT OF GOD IS EVIDENT. FOR THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH, AND THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH.

ETC...ETC... EVIDENT!

You know, merely repeating a couple Scripture verses ad nauseum doesn't explain things any better the 20th time, either... You need to do some more in-detail discussion.

I agree with some of what you are saying, but I think that the problem of Judaizers are for the most part not something we need to worry about anymore. A good teacher takes into account his environment and the students under his charge. Thus, if you want to reach out to people, you have to identify where they need your help.

IT IS NOT REGARDING BECOMING JEWISH!!!

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

That is not why few people put on the "wedding garment",

"few people"? I agree, many are indeed called, few are indeed chosen. I could support this with several Scriptures but let's look at "call" first:

"And they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."
—Revelation 17:14

"And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding." —Matt 22:1-3​

Translators use both 'bid' and 'call' in this parable to render kaleo (Strong's #2564). Because 'call' has such special significance in Scripture, the use of 'bid' introduces a vagueness not present in the original. It is better to use call throughout would be my thought.

The first call:

... "And they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are called, "Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage." But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned their city. Then saith he to his servants, "The wedding is ready, but they which were called were not worthy."
—Matthew 22:3-8​

Now it might be difficult come to understand this but it is clear that the King was ready for his son's marriage to happen then and there and if, at that time, the guests were ready and worthy, there would have been a wedding. These verses appear to clearly describe the reaction of the Jews, the called people of God, to the ministry of Jesus and his disciples. How might they be seen in any other light? There was no marriage feast at that time.

We see that there was a "Shiddukhin" and know that it was the custom for the Father to select the bride for his son. This is seen clearly in the very lives of Isaac and Rebecca. Then comes the "Ketubah" or what some might understand as the "proposal". Despite the fact that it was an 'arranged marriage' the consent of the bride is very much a part of the process. Ketubah means - "written". The ketubah was and still is today the - 'marriage contract.' It includes the promise of the Bridegroom to provide and care for her as well as the "bride price" or dowry being paid. cf. Gen. 24:52-53. The wedding that the King planned for his son didn't happen at the first miracle of Jesus, he did change the water to wine and he did curse the tree upon his departure.

Kiddushin
Like many Jewish ceremonies, the wedding ceremony begins with a cup of wine. The rabbi recites a blessing over a cup of wine and a second blessing of sanctification over the marriage. Both the bride and the groom then drink from the cup. The groom then places a solid gold band on the right index finger of the bride and declares: “Behold, you are consecrated unto me with this ring according to the laws of Moses and Israel.†These two blessings and the giving of the ring, completes the ancient betrothal ceremony. To separate the first part of the wedding ceremony from the second part that follows, the Ketubah (marriage contract) is read following the giving of the ring.

Read more at Jewish Wedding Planning and take the Oy Vey out of your wedding day.

But back to the parable where we see that the wedding did not take place as planned. We know what happened.

Another call goes out:

"Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, call to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
— Matthew 22:9-12​

The sending of the King’s servants into the highways depicts the call going out to the Gentiles. The "gathering" that is spoken of can also be used as a fishing term, where we see they were 'caught in a net'. Paul wrote of this call, "I say then, Have they [the Jews] stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles" (Rom. 11:11).

Notice that the servants were told to "compel" guests to come in, that they went to the streets and brought "both good and bad." (cf. Matthew 22:1-14. Luke 14:7-14, recalling what was said about the word "bid" or "bidden" and how it is the same word that is translated "call"). The "gathering" can be used to mean the net itself, if I read my Greek help books right. It is a worthwhile study. The term "bad" in the "both good and bad" phrase is interesting. Although it may mean "wicked or evil", the primary meaning is "burdened by many labors". In a physical sense: diseased or blind.

Many responded to this call and we understand today that this includes us, as Gentiles —the banquet hall filled; but, as indicated in the parable, entrance into the hall is not sufficient. It is necessary for each guest to put on a wedding garment.

Note: Some of what is posted here came from sources other than me including: Jewish Wedding Customs and the Bride of Messiah, by Glenn Kay, and JEWISH WEDDING TRADITIONS , published on JewishWeddingNetwork.com, The Parable of the Marriage Feast, by Richard Evans and Isaac and Rebecca, published by Chabad.org


Conclusion
Here we come to the part that you speak of, the Wedding Garment. Here we consider the words 'many,' and 'few,' and 'one'.



The Wedding Garment:

And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless."​

For those who may not understand why I am posting in the "When Law" thread, my thought is that the law fully passes away on the wedding day. It has use until then. This is a thought and not something that I demand to be true, it is a considered thought. The Lord deals with us in His understanding of our place and need according to His abundant mercies. We are called into His service and directed to build each other up in our most holy faith. Hopefully all will work toward this goal.

Your thoughts, please?

Sparrow,

Thanks for your input.

"the Law will not pass away fully until the Wedding Feast". Perhaps. What part do you believe still is in force? Whatever might be of use existed before Moses ever received the Commandments, so we are not bound to follow the Mosaic Law, but the Decalogue, we are because it is part of the Law of Christ. We are slaves to someone, right?

To me, the "Wedding Garment" is our good deeds that we carry with us to judgment. Without it, we cannot get into the Kingdom. What is interesting is that this wedding garment is ANOTHER gift from above. It is not something we manufacture by ourselves - but it is our garment we bring with us. In other words, there is a participation as being part of the Body of Christ - Phil 2:12-13 explains succinctly the interaction between God and I in putting this "garment" together. God gives us this garment, will we refuse it?

Or will we sit outside, gnashing our teeth?

Regards

 

[JLB]

Works are a product of faith. Faith without works is dead.

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8

If Abraham would not have left his house and country and family to go to a land not knowing... Then his faith that he received when God spoke to him would have been useless or "dead".

So faith without obedience [works] is dead.

JLB

 

[JLB]

To me, the "Wedding Garment" is our good deeds

Describe good deeds...


JLB

 

[Sparkey]

What part do you believe still is in force?

I remember something about "Do not drink blood," and three other instructions in Acts as well as the 2 Greatest given by Jesus as a summary of all. Don't stumble brothers is part of it maybe? But we follow from a changed heart now.

 

[Ryan]

For those who may not understand why I am posting in the "When Law" thread, my thought is that the law fully passes away on the wedding day. It has use until then. This is a thought and not something that I demand to be true, it is a considered thought. The Lord deals with us in His understanding of our place and need according to His abundant mercies. We are called into His service and directed to build each other up in our most holy faith. Hopefully all will work toward this goal.

Your thoughts, please?

I saw something similar to this not to long ago.;)

Maybe Drew's use of the word "olam" has some merit to it. Maybe it meant a long, long time.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:17-19

Consider the following:

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach...For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws...I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,
Deut. 30:11,16,19,

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more... And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." And he said to me, "It is done! Rev. 21:1, 5

Jesus did not come to abolish the Law and Prophets, but to fulfill all of the Law and Prophets.

Not one jot or tittle (any part of the law) will pass away until two criteria are met:
1) Heaven and Earth pass away (NOT DONE YET)
2) All of the Law and Prophets are fulfilled (NOT DONE YET)

Some will say, Yeshua clearly said on the cross "It is finished," thus, now jots and tittles can be removed from God's law.
John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.†With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

What was finished?
Was all of the Law and Prophets finished?
Has heaven and Earth passed away?
Or, was it simply the plan of salvation (the cross) was finished?
Is the plan of salvation (the cross) concluding all of the Law and Prophets?
Did the cross cause heaven and earth to cease?
Why would we need a law in our heavenly bodies?
That must be when the law passes away.

 

[reba]

I see the word LAW here over and over ... what laws are ya all talking about?

All the Levitical Laws? The ten ? Seems to me Christ is the Spirit of the laws and but which of us are out doing all we can to break the 10 cause we are not under the law.... Being so lawful about not being under the law is about as binding as being under the law...

You guys :crazy me

 

[JLB]

For those who may not understand why I am posting in the "When Law" thread, my thought is that the law fully passes away on the wedding day. It has use until then. This is a thought and not something that I demand to be true, it is a considered thought. The Lord deals with us in His understanding of our place and need according to His abundant mercies. We are called into His service and directed to build each other up in our most holy faith. Hopefully all will work toward this goal.

Your thoughts, please?

I saw something similar to this not to long ago.;)

Maybe Drew's use of the word "olam" has some merit to it. Maybe it meant a long, long time.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:17-19

Consider the following:

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach...For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws...I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,
Deut. 30:11,16,19,

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more... And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." And he said to me, "It is done! Rev. 21:1, 5

Jesus did not come to abolish the Law and Prophets, but to fulfill all of the Law and Prophets.

Not one jot or tittle (any part of the law) will pass away until two criteria are met:
1) Heaven and Earth pass away (NOT DONE YET)
2) All of the Law and Prophets are fulfilled (NOT DONE YET)

Some will say, Yeshua clearly said on the cross "It is finished," thus, now jots and tittles can be removed from God's law.
John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.†With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

What was finished?
Was all of the Law and Prophets finished?
Has heaven and Earth passed away?
Or, was it simply the plan of salvation (the cross) was finished?
Is the plan of salvation (the cross) concluding all of the Law and Prophets?
Did the cross cause heaven and earth to cease?
Why would we need a law in our heavenly bodies?
That must be when the law passes away.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets;

The Law and the Prophets and the Psalms is what we refer to as the Old testament.

The law of Moses was contained within The Law.

The law of Moses was added till the Seed should come...

The law of Moses was temporary.

JLB

 

[Mitspa]

Yes in fact the written code and it standard have passed away for those who are justified in Christ.

It has passed away as a standard by which one is justified (MADE righteous). Not as a standard for the righteous behavior of the person in Christ.

FOR CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW, FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

But Christ is NOT the end of the requirements of the law. Faith in him is the new WAY to uphold what still remains to be literally kept of the law of Moses.

we who are in Christ are judged by the law of faith and the commandment of Christ " THIS IS MY COMMANDMENT, THAT YOU LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU"

as Paul summed up the gospel in its simplicty!
NOTHING PROFITS ANYTHING BUT FAITH WORKING BY LOVE.

The new WAY of faith is the simplicity of the gospel. But the Bible also says I can know if my faith is in fact working by love by, for example, I keep Deuteronomy 15:7-8.

Don't leave that out of the gospel. It's right there in the pages of our Bibles.

yes nothing profits any thing but faith working by love.
THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH.
WHATSOEVER IS NOT OF FAITH IS SIN.
those who have been justified freely by His grace, and turn back to the written code have fallen from grace and are in their sins. As the sow returns to its wallow.

 

[Mitspa]

For those who may not understand why I am posting in the "When Law" thread, my thought is that the law fully passes away on the wedding day. It has use until then. This is a thought and not something that I demand to be true, it is a considered thought. The Lord deals with us in His understanding of our place and need according to His abundant mercies. We are called into His service and directed to build each other up in our most holy faith. Hopefully all will work toward this goal.

Your thoughts, please?

I saw something similar to this not to long ago.;)

Maybe Drew's use of the word "olam" has some merit to it. Maybe it meant a long, long time.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:17-19

Consider the following:

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach...For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws...I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,
Deut. 30:11,16,19,

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more... And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." And he said to me, "It is done! Rev. 21:1, 5

Jesus did not come to abolish the Law and Prophets, but to fulfill all of the Law and Prophets.

Not one jot or tittle (any part of the law) will pass away until two criteria are met:
1) Heaven and Earth pass away (NOT DONE YET)
2) All of the Law and Prophets are fulfilled (NOT DONE YET)

Some will say, Yeshua clearly said on the cross "It is finished," thus, now jots and tittles can be removed from God's law.
John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

What was finished?
Was all of the Law and Prophets finished?
Has heaven and Earth passed away?
Or, was it simply the plan of salvation (the cross) was finished?
Is the plan of salvation (the cross) concluding all of the Law and Prophets?
Did the cross cause heaven and earth to cease?
Why would we need a law in our heavenly bodies?
That must be when the law passes away.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets;

The Law and the Prophets and the Psalms is what we refer to as the Old testament.

The law of Moses was contained within The Law.

The law of Moses was added till the Seed should come...

The law of Moses was temporary.

JLB

If any man be in Christ, HE IS A NEW CREATION, the old things HAVE PASSED AWAY. behold ALL THINGS are new.

Anyone who wants to understand the truth, can see very well that for the believer, heaven and earth have in fact passed away. We are no longer of this world our laws are from heaven, as our King sets in heaven.
We are born again from above.

Now without the Holy Spirit, this is not true for any man.
But with the Holy Spirit, we are sons of God.

 

[Mitspa]

We uphold God's Laws when we are led by God's Spirit.

This of course is not the Law of Moses.

Not the law of Moses, eh? That's not what Paul says:

"28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." (Romans 3:28, 31 NASB)

You've been victimized by the spiritless rationalizing of a church that couldn't reconcile Paul's 'justification apart from works' with James' 'justification by works'. To fix what they couldn't discern spiritually they decided that they were talking about two different laws. The Bible does not support this at all.

Of course James is speaking of works of faith. Its very simple.
In the SAME CHAPTER paul explains what it means to "ESTABLISH" the law for its purpose. Rom 3:19-23
Which he also covers in clear terms in Gal.
That the pupose of the law was to condemn the whole world.

Now those who "break" the law into pieces and bring its standard down to a carnal level are those who are lawless.

But we who who have no confidence in the flesh, are those who uphold the true standard of the law.