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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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When did the Law pass or has it passed away?
- Thread starter Mellontes
- Start date
Jethro Bodine
Member
A faith that does not uphold the requirements of the law can not save.
Jesus himself said he did not come to abolish the law. It's incumbent on every believer to know for themselves how faith is expected to fulfill the requirements of the law that Jesus said he did not come to abolish.
Please write out for me the scripture you refer to where Jesus states He did not abolish the Law.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
Jesus fulfilled The Law,The Prophets and the Psalms.
The Law He fulfilled is the Torah.
He fulfilled all the Shadows and Types of The Torah.
He fulfilled the prophecies of The Prophets, as well as the Psalms.
He did not destroy the Torah, not the prophets nor the Psalms, He fulfilled them.
What does that have to do with the Law of Moses. The law of Moses was added to the Abraham Covenant till the seed should come.
For the law that was 430 years later could not annul the Covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ.
The law of Moses was a subsidiary or a part of the greater Covenant of Abraham. The law of Moses only concerned the Israelite while they were in Israel.
The Covenant of Abraham was a Covenant that included the whole Earth and all the Gentiles as well as Jews.
Why are you trying to make a part of something greater that the whole?
The Law is the Torah, the first Five books of the bible, not the law of Moses.
If all He fulfilled was the Law of Moses then what about Isaiah who prophesied this -
1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice, Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench; He will bring forth justice for truth. 4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, Till He has established justice in the earth; And the coastlands shall wait for His law." 5 Thus says God the Lord, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk on it: 6 "I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness, And will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles, Isaiah 42:1-6
He fulfilled Genesis through Malachi.
If He only fulfilled the Law of Moses then Gentiles would not be included?
Look at the language -
Till He has established justice in the earth; And the coastlands shall wait for His law."
Trying to say that Jesus only fulfilled just the law of Moses, is as much nonsense as saying Jesus kept the Law of Moses.
The Law that He said he didn't destroy or abolish is His Law, The Torah, not just the law of Moses!
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
Absolutely not! No one who practices a lie will enter the kingdom.
That is the written word of God that is contained in the Commandments of God.
Abraham walked in these as well as Moses.
However they walked in in His Commandments by faith.
This was not so with the Law of Moses.
The Children of Israel did not want God to speak to them.
The whole Priesthood was designed for "someone else" to have a relationship with God and then for "that person" to come and explain to everyone else "what God was like'.
This was not Abraham's way, it was not Enoch's way and it was not Job's way.
The Law of God was given in the Garden.
Sin resulted in disobedience to that Law.
The Law came through relationship.
This is the Way He intended for man to function.
God's Laws are Eternal and are found in the 10 commandments, but are not limited to the 10 commandments.
Eternal life is to know God.
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying , Know the LORD:for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Jeremiah 31:33-34
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27
He wants relationship with each and everyone one of us and to teach us and for us to know Him and to walk with Him, as it was in the beginning.
Here's the balance -
That we have commandments which were from the beginning and were seen in Moses Law. The commandments that govern His Kingdom and teach us as we mature and grow up into Him is all aspects.
For the Spirit and the word agree.
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 1 John 2:4-7
and again -
If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.
Righteousness that is apart from the Law of Moses.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
Just my opinion, but prolly not the best way to explain it. It doesn't say enough about fulfillment. The Law of Moses is still coming across as the four letter word of the faith.
Jesus really did in fact fulfill the requirements of the law of Moses--the requirements for atonement, blood, rest, various Festivals, etc. These requirements are not just Mosaic requirements. Not talking about the literal, earthly fulfillments. I'm talking about, for example, Jesus being the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. Which helps us see that the plan of redemption illustrated in the literal commands of Moses is also eternal and outside and apart from the Law of Moses.
This is why I say the WAY has changed, not God's requirements. I think together we can all come to a good understanding of the role of law in this New Covenant that we can explain to others for their benefit. But this ridiculous 'you can't keep any of the law under any and all circumstances' so popularly taught in the church today that makes 'law' a four letter word never to be uttered has got to go!
Posted here over and over has been the words "the law of Moses" that is only a descriptive term those laws are God's Word, God's laws .... OT is still Gods Word He changes not
Sloughing off something said by Jethro or Urk, or JLB or even Moses would be no big deal. But His Word we should be mindful of what we argue about...
Rom_15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Sloughing off something said by Jethro or Urk, or JLB or even Moses would be no big deal. But His Word we should be mindful of what we argue about...
Rom_15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Jethro Bodine
Member
Good point (though you may want to reconsider sloughing off Jethro's words, lol
)Makes me think of this:
"12 ...the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good." (Romans 7:12)
But somehow it became unholy, unrighteous, and not good in the church.
Jethro Bodine
Member
And then the law of Moses was fulfilled, not abolished, or scorned as something unholy and bad, when the Seed came.
Jethro Bodine
Member
...and there was peace, and there was rest in the Law thread on the Sabbath.:angel3
...and
The real people of God, serving the real God, with the real thing.
And then there was truly peace on the Sabbath Day.
(Jethro 1:1-2 AV)
...and
The real people of God, serving the real God, with the real thing.
And then there was truly peace on the Sabbath Day.
(Jethro 1:1-2 AV)
E
Elijah674
Guest
Ask 'Adam' if the Royal Law has been done away,
and he would know where that comment originated from!
--Elijah
and he would know where that comment originated from!
--Elijah
E
Elijah674
Guest
Deborah13
Member
So instead of making snide remarks, the "loving" brother (who is sincere in his heart and operating in the Royal Law) shares his thoughts.
Galatians 3:16
New King James Version (NKJV)
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
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Jesus fulfilled The Law and the Prophets.
The Law of Moses fulfilled its purpose in pointing the children of Israel to Christ.
The Law of Moses with its requirements has been nailed to the cross.
Now we are to be about casting out devils.
Healing the sick.
Speaking in tongues.
Raising the dead.
Cleansing the lepers...
New priesthood.
New Laws!
The Old has vanished away, as the scriptures teach us.
Each of us has a living relationship with God.
Each of us has access to His Throne.
There is neither Jew nor Greek.
The Law of Moses was never in force outside of Israel, so If you do not live in Israel this discussion is moot.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
Yes.
Well, sort of, lol. A remnant anyway.
It's purpose in defining sin and revealing the righteous requirements of God remains. What it can't do (anymore) is condemn those who have placed their faith in Christ.
Our sin was nailed to the cross. And because that's true, the condemnation the law pronounced over us, our legal debt of law, has been nailed to the cross with it, not the requirements of the law. We died to the authority of the law to make us guilty, and keep us guilty, before God. The legal debt of law is what got nailed to the cross, satisfied and fully paid by Christ himself.
Hebrews explains how those who no longer have that debt of sin guilt to pay don't need the earthly, literal system of worship to deal with a sin guilt and spiritual separation they no longer have. Thus the bold proclamation by Paul to not let anyone judge you in regard to doing/ not doing those things.
So, the requirements of the law were NOT nailed to the cross. They are fulfilled in the work of Christ, not abolished. Christ's work being the literal work and fulfillment of the law that we apply the benefit of to ourselves through the 'work' of believing. Don't confuse what is to us a non-literal fulfillment of various laws (aka, 'spiritual' fulfillment, but quite literal to Christ) as an abolition of those laws. That is hardly true. Christ said himself that he did not come to do that.
You first.
The literal, earthly shadow, and the literal laws governing the shadows, has vanished, being set aside, not abolished, in favor of the unveiling of the eternal reality which really does fulfill the purpose the shadows were given to accomplish.
Yes, the literal discriminatory laws do not apply to new creations in Christ. We died and became creatures that the literal discriminatory laws of cleanliness and separation simply do not apply to anymore.
Christ is the traffic cop who waves those who have faith in him through the stop light of the discriminatory laws (I'm referencing the analogy I put forth in another post, of course). Maybe a better analogy is we are riding in the cop car that can go through any stop light, whiz past any speed limit sign, even drive on the other side of the road if necessary because the cop who's driving it has the authority to do that. We are immune, by virtue of the authority of the driver, from prosecution.
A discussion about the earthly, literal shadows is a moot discussion, but not insofar as us still being able to learn through them the reality they represent, and worshiping the reality through them if we so choose to.
The requirements that the literal, earthly shadows were in place to fulfill are in fact fully in force in all of the universe, past, present, and future. Christ being the one who continually sustains and satisfies those requirements for those who believe, and continue to believe.
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Well sort of?
Do you agree that the Law of Moses was given to the Children of Israel and only intended for those living in the Land of Israel?
So we can confine our discussion to only that which is relevant.
A.] Yes I agree the Law of Moses was only intended for those living in the land of Israel.
B.] No, I believe the Law of Moses was applicable for Gentiles living in their own country.
JLB