When did the Law pass or has it passed away?

[Jethro Bodine]

Of course we know the Land is symbolic of the kingdom of God and it's blessings, and the life of Israel is about worshiping and obeying God in that Promised Land in order to stay in that blessing. But what point are you trying to make since we see the Apostles teaching the law of Moses outside of Israel? Explain.

You don't get to spiritualize away the question.

Lets work together and weed out who the Law of Moses was meant for.

We know it was not meant for Gentiles living outside of Israel.

Agree or No.

No. I do not agree. You're avoiding the obvious--that the Law of Moses went out from Israel.

Some laws only apply to the time and place of the old covenant of temple, priest, and sacrifice which obviously were kept where the temple was in the Land of Israel. This is what 'passed away', not abolished, just not needed anymore. The remainder of the law gets upheld by faith in Christ.

Jesus did not come to abolish the law. You'll have a hard time getting around that truth.

 

[JLB]

Of course we know the Land is symbolic of the kingdom of God and it's blessings, and the life of Israel is about worshiping and obeying God in that Promised Land in order to stay in that blessing. But what point are you trying to make since we see the Apostles teaching the law of Moses outside of Israel? Explain.

You don't get to spiritualize away the question.

Lets work together and weed out who the Law of Moses was meant for.

We know it was not meant for Gentiles living outside of Israel.

Agree or No.

No. I do not agree. You're avoiding the obvious--that the Law of Moses went out from Israel.

Some laws only apply to the time and place of the old covenant of temple, priest, and sacrifice which obviously were kept where the temple was in the Land of Israel. This is what 'passed away', not abolished, just not needed anymore. The remainder of the law gets upheld by faith in Christ.

Jesus did not come to abolish the law. You'll have a hard time getting around that truth.

Jesus did not come to Abolish the Torah. The Torah is more than the Law of Moses.

Melchizedek is a type of Christ.

Melchizedek is in Genesis, before the Law of Moses.

Genesis is in the Torah, not part of the Law of Moses which He gave the children of Israel.

Was Abraham a child of Israel. No.

Was Melchizedek a child of Israel. No

Did the Law of Moses apply to Melchizedek. No.

Did the Law of Moses apply to Issac. No

Where in the Law of Moses does in say to Abraham to sacrifice his son Issac? NOWHERE! Because it was 430 years before Moses Law!!!

Jesus fulfilled the Torah, which included the Law of Moses, which had been added to the Abraham Covenant, until the Seed should come to whom the promise was made.

He did not destroy the Torah.

He did not need to destroy the law of Moses in that it was never meant to be forever, it was added TEMPORARILY till the Seed should come.

The law of Moses was declared OBSOLETE when the Lord, who is the Seed, spoke the words New Covenant through the mouth of Jeremiah.

It began vanishing away at that moment and continued fading until it was taken out of the way at the cross!

The reference that Jesus made was to the Torah, not the law of Moses.

The law of Moses was meant for the Children of Israel while they were in the promise land.

Mount Moriah is the only acceptable place for the sacrifice for sins according to the law of Moses.

Now Solomon began to build the house of the Lord at Jerusalem on Mount Moriah, where the Lord had appeared to his father David, at the place that David had prepared on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite. 2 Chronicles 3:1


JLB

 

[John 8:32]

Brings to light an interesting thought. Had the Apostles been celebrating Ishtar and not keeping the Feast Days of God, they would not have received the Holy Spirit. They would not have been there on teh Feast of Pentecost...

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. Acts 1:1

If they were "keeping the Law of Moses" the one place they would have been would be the temple, offering the "natural first fruits offering" as commanded by Moses.

However, that was not the case. They actually had to be commanded by Jesus to even stay in Jerusalem.

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." Acts 1:4-5

Where were they planning on going -

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. Matthew 28:18-20


JLB

Had they been keeping Ishtar, they would have been on some hilltop somewhere watching the sun come up...

Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
Eze 8:17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Of course we know the Land is symbolic of the kingdom of God and it's blessings, and the life of Israel is about worshiping and obeying God in that Promised Land in order to stay in that blessing. But what point are you trying to make since we see the Apostles teaching the law of Moses outside of Israel? Explain.

You don't get to spiritualize away the question.

Lets work together and weed out who the Law of Moses was meant for.

We know it was not meant for Gentiles living outside of Israel.

Agree or No.

No. I do not agree. You're avoiding the obvious--that the Law of Moses went out from Israel.

Some laws only apply to the time and place of the old covenant of temple, priest, and sacrifice which obviously were kept where the temple was in the Land of Israel. This is what 'passed away', not abolished, just not needed anymore. The remainder of the law gets upheld by faith in Christ.

Jesus did not come to abolish the law. You'll have a hard time getting around that truth.

Jesus did not come to Abolish the Torah. The Torah is more than the Law of Moses.

Melchizedek is a type of Christ.

Melchizedek is in Genesis, before the Law of Moses.

Genesis is in the Torah, not part of the Law of Moses which He gave the children of Israel.

Was Abraham a child of Israel. No.

Was Melchizedek a child of Israel. No

Did the Law of Moses apply to Melchizedek. No.

Did the Law of Moses apply to Issac. No

Where in the Law of Moses does in say to Abraham to sacrifice his son Issac? NOWHERE! Because it was 430 years before Moses Law!!!

Jesus fulfilled the Torah, which included the Law of Moses, which had been added to the Abraham Covenant, until the Seed should come to whom the promise was made.

He did not destroy the Torah.

He did not need to destroy the law of Moses in that it was never meant to be forever, it was added TEMPORARILY till the Seed should come.

The law of Moses was declared OBSOLETE when the Lord, who is the Seed, spoke the words New Covenant through the mouth of Jeremiah.

It began vanishing away at that moment and continued fading until it was taken out of the way at the cross!

The reference that Jesus made was to the Torah, not the law of Moses.

The law of Moses was meant for the Children of Israel while they were in the promise land.

Mount Moriah is the only acceptable place for the sacrifice for sins according to the law of Moses.

Now Solomon began to build the house of the Lord at Jerusalem on Mount Moriah, where the Lord had appeared to his father David, at the place that David had prepared on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite. 2 Chronicles 3:1


JLB

Now explain why the Apostles taught the Law of Moses after the resurrection.

 

[Sparkey]

If they were "keeping the Law of Moses" the one place they would have been would be the temple, offering the "natural first fruits offering" as commanded by Moses.

However, that was not the case. They actually had to be commanded by Jesus to even stay in Jerusalem.

So you don't think that they knew that Jesus wanted them to Count the Omer in Jerusalem? You suppose that the Apostles and Disciples knew the same as the average Christian today does? There is a danger in "normalizing" what we read. God is still the All-Together Other even today and we need to continually under stand that we look through a lens and not face to face.

 

[JLB]

Brings to light an interesting thought. Had the Apostles been celebrating Ishtar and not keeping the Feast Days of God, they would not have received the Holy Spirit. They would not have been there on teh Feast of Pentecost...

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. Acts 1:1

If they were "keeping the Law of Moses" the one place they would have been would be the temple, offering the "natural first fruits offering" as commanded by Moses.

However, that was not the case. They actually had to be commanded by Jesus to even stay in Jerusalem.

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." Acts 1:4-5

Where were they planning on going -

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. Matthew 28:18-20


JLB

Had they been keeping Ishtar, they would have been on some hilltop somewhere watching the sun come up...

Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
Eze 8:17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.

What does Ishtar have to do with this thread.

They were in the upper room.

They were not keeping the feast, as they were planning on leaving.

They had to be commanded by Jesus NOT TO LEAVE.

If they were planning on staying for the feast, Jesus would not have to command them NOT TO LEAVE.

Once the Spirit came on the Day of Pentecost, The Spirit started directing them, then they started proceeding with the work under the leading and guiding of the Spirit.

JLB

 

[Sparkey]

We see the Risen Christ speaking to his Disciples for 40 days and giving them many infallible proofs. HE IS RISEN! Hallelujah.
They were wondering and He was teaching and they were learning and He was showing and making known, like never before because their ears were OPENED.
And for forty days He would offer infallible proofs and for 40 days He would teach and walk and was with them. And this was After-He-Died!

So then on the 40th day, we see Jesus assembled together and no, we don't see his disciples wanting to scatter, but instead we see them listening and wondering and Him continuing to teach.
Yes! Jesus told them to wait in Jerusalem. Can we tell why? Was it because they wanted to scatter? That's not indicated but what is, is the reason that Jesus spoke of. The reason is that He wanted them to know, He taught them, He them (as He did prior to the cross) that they would receive the "Promise of the Father".

And they were learning and they were wondering and the Word of God was being illuminated and they were seeing and questioning and one of those questions was, "Are you going to fulfill every Promise? Will God restore the Kingdom to Israel in 10 days or what?" And Jesus had just told them that they should wait because they "Shall Be Baptized in the Holy Ghost," and they didn't hear that clearly enough so He told them what it would mean to them, "Ye shall receive power..." and He also told them that God has set up seasons and times (and yes, they knew they were counting the Omer, the 49 days and yes, they knew what Jesus was speaking about the next day after, the "New Day" -- but they had not experienced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and that word that Jesus spoke unto them was a seed still. It was not known exactly what would happen. Not at that moment. And further, they did not know that "this seed" that was spoken would grow into a magnificent TREE that would shelter "the other sheep," the Gentiles too.

So we see an image of Jesus speaking of The Promise. And the Disciples counting and waiting and wondering. And then! On that day! We see that they are baptized and given the Gift of the Holy Spirit which they had heard about all throughout the Ministry of The Christ and who is The Christ? Is he not the Anointed Messiah? And what is the Baptism? Is it not this very anointing Himself? He is the Anointed. He did pour out His Spirit and it is this that Joel spoke and Peter quoted, "I shall pour out My Spirit upon all flesh." So Peter knew. He had a clue. But even then he did not see face to face but through a lens. Just as we do.

 

[JLB]

No. I do not agree. You're avoiding the obvious--that the Law of Moses went out from Israel.

Some laws only apply to the time and place of the old covenant of temple, priest, and sacrifice which obviously were kept where the temple was in the Land of Israel. This is what 'passed away', not abolished, just not needed anymore. The remainder of the law gets upheld by faith in Christ.

Jesus did not come to abolish the law. You'll have a hard time getting around that truth.

Jesus did not come to Abolish the Torah. The Torah is more than the Law of Moses.

Melchizedek is a type of Christ.

Melchizedek is in Genesis, before the Law of Moses.

Genesis is in the Torah, not part of the Law of Moses which He gave the children of Israel.

Was Abraham a child of Israel. No.

Was Melchizedek a child of Israel. No

Did the Law of Moses apply to Melchizedek. No.

Did the Law of Moses apply to Issac. No

Where in the Law of Moses does in say to Abraham to sacrifice his son Issac? NOWHERE! Because it was 430 years before Moses Law!!!

Jesus fulfilled the Torah, which included the Law of Moses, which had been added to the Abraham Covenant, until the Seed should come to whom the promise was made.

He did not destroy the Torah.

He did not need to destroy the law of Moses in that it was never meant to be forever, it was added TEMPORARILY till the Seed should come.

The law of Moses was declared OBSOLETE when the Lord, who is the Seed, spoke the words New Covenant through the mouth of Jeremiah.

It began vanishing away at that moment and continued fading until it was taken out of the way at the cross!

The reference that Jesus made was to the Torah, not the law of Moses.

The law of Moses was meant for the Children of Israel while they were in the promise land.

Mount Moriah is the only acceptable place for the sacrifice for sins according to the law of Moses.

Now Solomon began to build the house of the Lord at Jerusalem on Mount Moriah, where the Lord had appeared to his father David, at the place that David had prepared on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite. 2 Chronicles 3:1


JLB

Now explain why the Apostles taught the Law of Moses after the resurrection.

The 10 commandments are God's Law.

The Sabbath in the 10 Commandments, and carried out in the Law of Moses with such commands as -

32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, "The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp." 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36

Now the righteous requirement of the Law as given by God in the beginning was that man need to rest on the Sabbath.

The righteous requirement is obedience to God. Its not about sticks, Its not about the Sabbath, it about Obedience.

What caused sin to transfer to all of Mankind? DISOBEDIENCE TO HIS VOICE.

The Sabbath was given by God long before the Law of Moses.

So, what Law of Moses did the apostles teach, since they themselves did not keep the feast of Pentecost, but were ready to leave and had to be commanded to stay and were found in the upper room, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT GOD WANTED THEM TO DO, rather than be in the temple with the rest of those keeping the Law of Moses.

Just as it was better to heed the Voice of The Lord and not circumcise the children of Israel until all the males had died in the wilderness, who had left Egypt.


JLB

 

[Sparkey]

In our way of counting has 50 days passed since Easter (that's what we call the feast sometimes) 2013?? So we are in that period of time, that 40 days that we are speaking about even now. Should we be surprised when He opens Our Eyes? "When two or more of you are gathered in My Name, there also am I."

Shall we turn away from our Savior today?

May I observe days and holidays according to my conscience and know that each and every day that I walk and talk brings the opportunity for Christ to be with us as we join together? Is He our Risen Savior or what? May I also know that each and every day that you walk and talk brings the opportunity for Christ to be here with us? And if He is (and I do declare it true) and if He has fulfilled every law, may it not also be said that I too am walking in accord with the One who knows and forms hearts? I believe. I also believe that you believe. Let it be settled in you, that we may continue to contemplate these many things in peace. That we may also partake of the REST which is the Sabbath which is the Holy Spirit. Being given, turning hearts, uniting hearts until the Return of Our King and let us know that it is all and all Him and Him alone who calls, draws, teaches, fulfills and Him who is worthy.

 

[JLB]

May I observe days and holidays according to my conscience and know that each and every day that I walk and talk brings the opportunity for Christ to be with us as we join together?

This is similar to Paul's motive here in this verse -

For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus, so that he would not have to spend time in Asia; for he was hurrying to be at Jerusalem, if possible, on the Day of Pentecost. Acts 20:16

Paul knew that there would be an opportunity to witness to the Jews gathered in Jerusalem who had come to keep the Passover and Pentecost.

Paul had missed the Passover, but was hurrying to try, if possible, to make for Pentecost.

Not to "keep the Law of Moses", but to seize the opportunity to be on hand to witness and teach to many of his countryman after the flesh, for they would be returning to the country where they lived and would be an asset to the kingdom, in that they were well versed in what the scriptures said concerning the Messiah, from the Law and the Prophets and the Psalms.


JLB

 

[Sparkey]

Not to "keep the Law of Moses"

I go back and forth (within myself) because I suspect that we actually agree in what we are both saying. I don't "follow the law of Moses" but then again, I do. But the focus isn't to follow the law and only as I see those things are fulfilled in the Upright Walk of the One from whom my Righteousness is obtained, do I follow. So even in the most meticulous things where I might "follow the law" if the truth be known, I am not following the law. That's the way that I see it and of course my sight is subject to judgment.

I don't mind others looking and reading the Epistle that is written in me and know that I am both read -and known- of men. Sometimes those things that are read from "the inner me" raise an eyebrow or two. Sometimes there is an exclamation of praise to God for the wonder that has been and is being wrought in me. Especially if you've known me long and can really appreciate the contrast that the Lord works with. So my book, the "epistle of me" is known. It is read, as is yours. It is also a chapter of the book knows as Sparrow, just like it is a chapter of the book known as 'LJB' (pardon, some readers of me are dyslexic too) that is read by me (with the help of the Holy Spirit) too.

I don't want to put burden and don't believe that was Jesus' purpose either. He came to set free. "My burden is easy, my yoke is light." (or was that the other way around? ;) )

 

[JLB]

So even in the most meticulous things where I might "follow the law" if the truth be known, I am not following the law. That's the way that I see it and of course my sight is subject to judgment.

That's extremely insightful!

The more difficult things that are not written is where we lean on Him, to draw from Him what is right in His eyes.

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

JLB,

If your doctrine is correct, why is Paul teaching the law of Moses...and teaching others to fulfill it outside of Israel?

"8 I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He? 10 Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written" (1 Corinthians 9:8-9 NASB)

This law was given for our sake. But you say it has been abolished, and when it was in force it was only for the Land. It's interesting that he makes his appeal to that which is written--but which you say is no longer applicable in any way shape or form--to guide and teach the gentile Corinthians.

 

[SeekHisFace]

I am new ...and there are so many pages on this thread...so if I have repeated anything here, forgive me.
I just wanted to say that I have travailed in prayer on this subject and the Lord is so faithful to show us what we ask. "So far" this is what He has shown me--there is more, but I wanted to try and keep this brief. Thank you for allowing me to share this and thank you for reading...

Knowing Jesus and where He came from (by prophecy)...He came through the line of David. Abraham's seed==Jesus. Jesus is Israel. All who come to Jesus are "co-heirs" of His inheritance, and we all are called..."Israel". If it is being said that the law is for the land of Israel only...then the denial of Jesus' open invitation to all would be void as well.
Jesus came with the law of God, and to do the Father's will and said He did not come to abolish it. What is "new" is the "passover" from flesh to spirit...the newness of the inward man. We now have Jesus, the Father's Spirit, the "regeneration"--Ephesian 5 ...
the washing of the water by the Word-->wise virgins.

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

If we read Hebrews 9 and paying attention to verse 10...those are the laws that have been done away with because of Jesus fulfilling the passover feast. He is now in the Holy of Holies--the High Priest and we are in the first tabernacle--we are the house of prayer--the temple of God--a sanctuary pure and holy (suppose to be). The veil has been torn. Since He is in the Holy of Holies...He still has God's laws and we keep His commandments "through Him and the Spirit". Without Him and the Spirit...we are in the "old law"---the law of sin.

Training our mind in our thinking--perseverance, enduring, practiced thinking/thoughts = crucifying/mortifying (put to death) but not without Christ and the Spirit

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions (passions) of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.


Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[JLB]

JLB,

If your doctrine is correct, why is Paul teaching the law of Moses...and teaching others to fulfill it outside of Israel?

"8 I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He? 10 Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written" (1 Corinthians 9:8-9 NASB)

This law was given for our sake. But you say it has been abolished, and when it was in force it was only for the Land. It's interesting that he makes his appeal to that which is written--but which you say is no longer applicable in any way shape or form--to guide and teach the gentile Corinthians.

Your example is like saying - Because of the principles and insights of the types and shadows that the Law portrayed in point us to Christ, were are to keep the Law of Moses.

Look at what Paul is saying -

7 Who ever goes to war at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its fruit? Or who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk of the flock? 8 Do I say these things as a mere man? Or does not the law say the same also? 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain." Is it oxen God is concerned about? 10 Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope. 1 Corinthians 9:7-10

Paul's is drawing on a principle. Not a literal Law. Is Paul an Ox? No. He is using a principle within the Law to establish His right to partake, as a faithful worker.

If Paul taught his Gentile followers to keep the law of Moses, then the first thing in all his letters would be about making sure everybody was circumcised.

Then next it would be making sure everybody kept all the feasts correctly by returning to Jerusalem every year.

He would surely lay great emphasis on keeping the Sabbath as well as all the Sabbath's ...

"You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain." Is it oxen God is concerned about? 10 Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written.

Why does Paul need to explain all this.

If this were about keeping the Law of Moses the he would have started in about the Tithes!

Even though the Tithe was before Moses.

Paul is teaching a principle, using EXAMPLES from the Law of Moses.

Almost in the same breath he writes -

1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 1 Corinthians 10:1-11I think you know the difference.


JLB

 

[JLB]

the commandments of God,

Key phrase - Commandments of God, not the Law of Moses.


JLB

 

[Sparkey]

I am new ...and there are so many pages on this thread...

Greetings and welcome!

:nod Oh, and thank you for sharing what our Lord is showing to you.

 

[SeekHisFace]

Aren't the law and commandment by Moses? I believe that it is in the book of Hebrews, chapter nine that clarifies the type of law that was abolished

Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

these are the laws that Jesus was confronted with. Example when they mentioned that when Jesus was doing the Father's work on the Sabbath...He was breaking it...but Jesus was not breaking it...those were the "laws" of men. And through the Spirit...He teaches us His laws...the laws of God, not laws of men.
We really need to listen to the Holy Spirit...walk in it and be led in it.
Forgive me if you decide to not hear me..because I am female ...but just let me know and I well back out of this thread.
Thank you
Blessings to you and yours.
In Christ.

 

[SeekHisFace]

I am new ...and there are so many pages on this thread...

Greetings and welcome!

Thank you.
Hello to you too!

 

[John 8:32]

JLB,

If your doctrine is correct, why is Paul teaching the law of Moses...and teaching others to fulfill it outside of Israel?

"8 I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He? 10 Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written" (1 Corinthians 9:8-9 NASB)

This law was given for our sake. But you say it has been abolished, and when it was in force it was only for the Land. It's interesting that he makes his appeal to that which is written--but which you say is no longer applicable in any way shape or form--to guide and teach the gentile Corinthians.

Your example is like saying - Because of the principles and insights of the types and shadows that the Law portrayed in point us to Christ, were are to keep the Law of Moses.

Look at what Paul is saying -

7 Who ever goes to war at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its fruit? Or who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk of the flock? 8 Do I say these things as a mere man? Or does not the law say the same also? 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain." Is it oxen God is concerned about? 10 Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope. 1 Corinthians 9:7-10

Paul's is drawing on a principle. Not a literal Law. Is Paul an Ox? No. He is using a principle within the Law to establish His right to partake, as a faithful worker.

If Paul taught his Gentile followers to keep the law of Moses, then the first thing in all his letters would be about making sure everybody was circumcised.

Then next it would be making sure everybody kept all the feasts correctly by returning to Jerusalem every year.

He would surely lay great emphasis on keeping the Sabbath as well as all the Sabbath's ...

"You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain." Is it oxen God is concerned about? 10 Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written.

Why does Paul need to explain all this.

If this were about keeping the Law of Moses the he would have started in about the Tithes!

Even though the Tithe was before Moses.

Paul is teaching a principle, using EXAMPLES from the Law of Moses.

Almost in the same breath he writes -

1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 1 Corinthians 10:1-11I think you know the difference.


JLB

You mean to say that...

1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Co 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

is a valid principle? That the things written in the book of Deuteronomy were written for our sakes? Do tell.