When did the Law pass or has it passed away?

[reba]

Forgive me if you decide to not hear me..because I am female ...but just let me know and I well back out of this thread. Thank you Blessings to you and yours. In Christ.

Hi and welcome .... most the folks here have pretty good thoughts about women if they show different I will get out my trusty....

 

[SeekHisFace]

Forgive me if you decide to not hear me..because I am female ...but just let me know and I well back out of this thread. Thank you Blessings to you and yours. In Christ.

Hi and welcome .... most the folks here have pretty good thoughts about women if they show different I will get out my trusty....

Thank you Reba...
I needed a laugh...thank you again!
Blessings ...

 

[Deborah13]

Forgive me if you decide to not hear me..because I am female ...but just let me know and I well back out of this thread.

Hi Seek, I hope you do not mind me shorting you name, you can call me Deb if you choose. I think you will find that MOST of the men on this forum do not discriminate against us gals. So be ready to take the heat just as the guys do.
I have learned a lot on this forum and sometimes it takes a lot of pray and searching the Word to discern what is the correct theology. I'm sure I have not always gotten it right but will keep trusting that the Holy Spirit will show me.
Glad to have another female here!

 

[JLB]

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

This is a beautiful Shadow and type from the Law of Moses.

Can you tell me what it means?

Thanks. I welcome your insights.

JLB

 

[John 8:32]

Aren't the law and commandment by Moses? I believe that it is in the book of Hebrews, chapter nine that clarifies the type of law that was abolished

Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

these are the laws that Jesus was confronted with. Example when they mentioned that when Jesus was doing the Father's work on the Sabbath...He was breaking it...but Jesus was not breaking it...those were the "laws" of men. And through the Spirit...He teaches us His laws...the laws of God, not laws of men.
We really need to listen to the Holy Spirit...walk in it and be led in it.
Forgive me if you decide to not hear me..because I am female ...but just let me know and I well back out of this thread.
Thank you
Blessings to you and yours.
In Christ.

Actually, Col 2:14 is not about any Law, I ran across this some time ago and found it very enlightening...

What Was Nailed to the Cross?

Since all scripture is given by the inspiration of God so that Christians should be complete (2 Timothy 3:16-17), it is wise to look at more than one verse to determine what, for example, was nailed to the cross.

There is only one only scripture that uses the "nailed it to the cross" expression (AV/NKJ), it is Colossians 2:13-14, in which Paul states,


"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross".

We will look at what it does and does not say.

First though, let's look at what the last chapter of the last book of the Bible teaches:


"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14, NKJV throughout unless otherwise noted).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right to enter...the city" (Revelation 22:14), the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us". Actually, it is only those who will not keep the ten commandments that are denied access. Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

So then, if the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?

Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):


14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)

The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances) or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.

Which requirements were wiped out?

Please understand that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin) is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"). But only the penalty, not the law!

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so. Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:


Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14), which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin. This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

In addition, let us look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:


NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears, figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19 where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:


19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out. And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28) to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27) to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:


13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (Galatians 3:13).

The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.


But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out?

Remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:


Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:


Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues, thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood (Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin, were blotted out.

And why?


"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin, as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).

For those who wish to look them up, perhaps most of the statutes in the Old Testament are listed in the following chapters: Exodus 20-24; Leviticus 16-27; Numbers 18-19, 27-30, 35-36; and Deuteronomy 12-18. - Dr. Robert Thiel

 

[JLB]

There is only one only scripture that uses the "nailed it to the cross" expression (AV/NKJ), it is Colossians 2:13-14, in which Paul states, "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross".

What was the it referring to?

I will give you a hint. It is between the out and the word it.

Having WIPED OUT the handwriting of requirements...

We don't need 10 paragraphs of Lexicon gymnastics to understand the clear and plain words that Paul wrote.

He wiped out!

He has taken it out of the way.

He has nailed it to the cross.

These are very direct and uncomplicated phrase that need no explanation.


JLB

 

[SeekHisFace]

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

This is a beautiful Shadow and type from the Law of Moses.

Can you tell me what it means?

Thanks. I welcome your insights.

JLB

This is a new leading for me from the Lord just the past couple of months. He showed me that this is the regeneration...from flesh to Spirit. Passing from the old man to the new man. Having to continue in His Word, burning unto Him, every morning and evening. I wrote down all the scripture that the Lord had led me to and put it all down in a study...if you would like for me to post it...perhaps in a new thread.
Blessings...

 

[Deborah13]

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

@John 8:32 , gave you the definition of the "taken away" and the Gk but has not given you the definition in the GK of what was nailed to the cross.
Here is the GK from Strong's which you can find (if you don't already know) at http://v3.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1378&t=KJV
and read it for yourself.


Strong's #1378 - Greek - dogma -

1. doctrine, decree, ordinance
2. of public decrees
3. of the Roman Senate
4. of rulers
5. the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment
6. of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living
   
   I cannot copy and paste from the Thayer's Lexicon on the same page but there you will find under #2. the definition as being the laws of Moses, and the Gk, at the end of the definition of #2 it specifically refers this definition to Col 2:14.

So what I see is the the Law of Moses was nailed to the cross. This is witness to what was said that the Law would be given Until the Seed (Jesus) of Abraham, came.

 

[SeekHisFace]

John 8:32

I only post what the Lord and the Holy Spirit has shown me. I use my Bible, concordance, and pray first to be led by the Holy Spirit. I dont read or try my best to not hear men...you mentioned:

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so. Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary...

I don't know who he/they are. The Lord has corrected me for listening to others, however it is good to go through scripture for study, correction. and I will be the first to look more closely, again, at His Word if I may be wrong.
I will re-read your post again...

Blessings

 

[SeekHisFace]

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

@John 8:32 , gave you the definition of the "taken away" and the Gk but has not given you the definition in the GK of what was nailed to the cross.
Here is the GK from Strong's which you can find (if you don't already know) at http://v3.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1378&t=KJV
and read it for yourself.


Strong's #1378 - Greek - dogma -

1. doctrine, decree, ordinance
2. of public decrees
3. of the Roman Senate
4. of rulers
5. the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment
6. of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living
   
   I cannot copy and paste from the Thayer's Lexicon on the same page but there you will find under #2. the definition as being the laws of Moses, and the Gk, at the end of the definition of #2 it specifically refers this definition to Col 2:14.

So what I see is the the Law of Moses was nailed to the cross. This is witness to what was said that the Law would be given Until the Seed (Jesus) of Abraham, came.

And that to my understanding was in the tabernacles from Hebrews 9...
I think I will post a new thread concerning that soon
Thank you...

 

[Deborah13]

I use my Bible, concordance

Good for you. So you would have already see what I posted before I read your post.

 

[SeekHisFace]

Forgive me if you decide to not hear me..because I am female ...but just let me know and I well back out of this thread.

Hi Seek, I hope you do not mind me shorting you name, you can call me Deb if you choose. I think you will find that MOST of the men on this forum do not discriminate against us gals. So be ready to take the heat just as the guys do.
I have learned a lot on this forum and sometimes it takes a lot of pray and searching the Word to discern what is the correct theology. I'm sure I have not always gotten it right but will keep trusting that the Holy Spirit will show me.
Glad to have another female here!

Amen! Thank you. Yes it is ok to short my name...
Yes it surely takes a lot of prayer, searching, discernment.
You are so right! The Lord surely has shown me if I have misunderstood...He does it so gently...doesn't He. Praise God.
The Holy Spirit is all I try to rely on...He is so patient with me. I always want to have more than one verse (a witness) to verify that I understand Him.
Thank you for your welcome.
Blessings to you...

 

[Deborah13]

And that to my understanding was in the tabernacles from Hebrews 9...
I think I will post a new thread concerning that soon
Thank you...

I would like this, I think it would be a good study.

 

[SeekHisFace]

Deb...
That is why I mentioned about what Jesus was confronted with. The men had mixed "their" rules and regulations and laws with the law of God. I always want to be very carefully on what to believe and what not to believe....it really does take the Holy Spirit's leading on this.

Blessings to you...

 

[gr8grace]

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

@John 8:32 , gave you the definition of the "taken away" and the Gk but has not given you the definition in the GK of what was nailed to the cross.
Here is the GK from Strong's which you can find (if you don't already know) at http://v3.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1378&t=KJV
and read it for yourself.


Strong's #1378 - Greek - dogma -

1. doctrine, decree, ordinance
2. of public decrees
3. of the Roman Senate
4. of rulers
5. the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment
6. of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living
   
   I cannot copy and paste from the Thayer's Lexicon on the same page but there you will find under #2. the definition as being the laws of Moses, and the Gk, at the end of the definition of #2 it specifically refers this definition to Col 2:14.

So what I see is the the Law of Moses was nailed to the cross. This is witness to what was said that the Law would be given Until the Seed (Jesus) of Abraham, came.

Hi Deb,

I always like to see what you have to say. I would like to add something.

I believe in the STRICT sense of the word, dogma in this verse is "decree" Or "ordinance."

In this verse I believe that Gods decree or ordinance of sin against us was nailed to the Cross. Our sin is the certificate of indebtedness against us and God decreed it so.

SO, the law is no longer for us, since sin is no longer a barrier for us to come to God. That is why we do not "turn from our sin" to come to God. We "turn from our unbelief". Sin has been nailed to the Cross.

 

[SeekHisFace]

That is the law of sin...from the law of our mind warring against us.

Blessing..

 

[Deborah13]

SO, the law is no longer for us, since sin is no longer a barrier for us to come to God. That is why we do not "turn from our sin" to come to God. We "turn from our unbelief". Sin has been nailed to the Cross.

Yes, I see that too now after further researching the "handwriting" in the GK. and frankly that makes so much more sense. So we see we can't use this verse to directly show that the Law of Moses is no longer in effect.

So I now eat humble pie, [MENTION=88954]John 8:32[/MENTION] - I apologize, I now see what you were saying....duh. Please forgive me for not researching your post thoroughly and jumping to quickly to disagree.

 

[John 8:32]

SO, the law is no longer for us, since sin is no longer a barrier for us to come to God. That is why we do not "turn from our sin" to come to God. We "turn from our unbelief". Sin has been nailed to the Cross.

Yes, I see that too now after further researching the "handwriting" in the GK. and frankly that makes so much more sense. So we see we can't use this verse to directly show that the Law of Moses is no longer in effect.

So I now eat humble pie, [MENTION=88954]John 8:32[/MENTION] - I apologize, I now see what you were saying....duh. Please forgive me for not researching your post thoroughly and jumping to quickly to disagree.

No humble pie necessary, nor is forgiveness necessary. I was C&Ping something that helped me understand that it was MY sin (and others also) that Christ was carrying when He was nailed to the cross.

 

[John 8:32]

There is only one only scripture that uses the "nailed it to the cross" expression (AV/NKJ), it is Colossians 2:13-14, in which Paul states, "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross".

What was the it referring to?

I will give you a hint. It is between the out and the word it.

Having WIPED OUT the handwriting of requirements...

We don't need 10 paragraphs of Lexicon gymnastics to understand the clear and plain words that Paul wrote.

He wiped out!

He has taken it out of the way.

He has nailed it to the cross.

These are very direct and uncomplicated phrase that need no explanation.


JLB

It refers back to...

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Paul was combatting Gnosticism here showing the Galatians that they needed no special, secret knowledge to be saved, but rather faith in Christ. This passage is not about the Law of God.

 

[JLB]

There is only one only scripture that uses the "nailed it to the cross" expression (AV/NKJ), it is Colossians 2:13-14, in which Paul states, "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross".

What was the it referring to?

I will give you a hint. It is between the out and the word it.

Having WIPED OUT the handwriting of requirements...

We don't need 10 paragraphs of Lexicon gymnastics to understand the clear and plain words that Paul wrote.

He wiped out!

He has taken it out of the way.

He has nailed it to the cross.

These are very direct and uncomplicated phrase that need no explanation.


JLB

It refers back to...

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Paul was combatting Gnosticism here showing the Galatians that they needed no special, secret knowledge to be saved, but rather faith in Christ. This passage is not about the Law of God.

This is where we left off with this discussion of Colossians 2.

You were just about to show me where in the Law of Moses, where it says that the requirements of Moses Law was applicable to Gentiles living in their own country -

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God. 20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations-- 21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," 22 which all concern things which perish with the using--according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

Don't let anybody condemn you for keeping the Sabbath. How does this get twisted around to condemning the Sabbath?


Jews sent out from Jerusalem were specifically sent behind Paul to try and bring Gentiles believers into bondage by persuading them to "be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses" which was never of any use to Gentiles living "outside" the covenant land where these Laws were mandated.

The Law of Moses portrayed a shadow, the substance was Christ. End of shadow!

These Jews who were trying to bring condemnation on Gentile Christians because they were not keeping the feast's, nor Sabbath's [plural] nor were they adhering to Mosaic food laws. For good reason, Paul taught them well. These things are of no use to restrain the indulgence of the flesh.

Don't touch this or don't eat that or don't wear mixed clothing or you must keep this feast day... are all Moses Law requirements that were never intended for gentiles that live in other countries.

To say otherwise, is to simply display a lack of understanding.

Now if you can show me in the law of Moses where Gentiles who dwell in other countries were to keep Moses Law, then I will be the one twisting God's word.

If not, then you will be the one guilty of twisting God's word.

JLB