Where are the miracles?

[Serving Zion]

Also to your other point about their disbelief. If you think about it, faith these days have been waining for many, many years, even centuries. This lack of faith put a dent in the ability of godly men to heal people of sicknesses, and move mountains through miracles. So for one issue of sickness, I do believe God made provisions for man by given doctors the ability to heal through science. I don't think it's a mistake that these doctors are driven to find cures for society, and I believe it is the work of the Holy Spirit in the world, although some don't even believe in God. But nonetheless, God chooses unbelievers to carry out His purposes. Think about the millions of babies/young children that would have died if children vaccines had not been discovered. And the man who discovered penicillin. Think about the millions of diseases that penicillin cured. I believe God took measures in his own hands to save mankind from massive death due to the lack of faith in the world.

Medicine and faith are not compatible. You turn either to faith or to medicine, but medicine is not a work of faith, it is a mechanical, carnal tool. If we were living the vision that God had, we would be doing the same works that Jesus Christ did and even greater, and the world would be full of Christians walking around healing the sick and raising the dead.

 

[jaybo]

Medicine and faith are not compatible. You turn either to faith or to medicine, but medicine is not a work of faith, it is a mechanical, carnal tool. If we were living the vision that God had, we would be doing the same works that Jesus Christ did and even greater, and the world would be full of Christians walking around healing the sick and raising the dead.

And some of them are! I was healed by my faith in Christ.

 

[believer2020]

Medicine and faith are not compatible. You turn either to faith or to medicine, but medicine is not a work of faith, it is a mechanical, carnal tool. If we were living the vision that God had, we would be doing the same works that Jesus Christ did and even greater, and the world would be full of Christians walking around healing the sick and raising the dead.

I totally agree with what you are saying, but I also believe that due to God compassion on His creation, He gave man the ability to heal through medicine because of the lack of faint in the world. All knowledge comes from God. Some use it for good and some us it for bad. Satan would not have given man knowledge to heal the million of diseases that would have resulted in the annihilation of mankind. Matthew 12:26, “And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?”

 

[Edward]

Medicine and faith are not compatible. You turn either to faith or to medicine, but medicine is not a work of faith, it is a mechanical, carnal tool. If we were living the vision that God had, we would be doing the same works that Jesus Christ did and even greater, and the world would be full of Christians walking around healing the sick and raising the dead.

Say what?! Medicine and faith are totally compatible. We have belief and so faith. Many medicines were gifts from God to mankind.

Saying that medicine and faith are incompatible is like saying that we can't have faith in God and carry a gun in this day and age. That just don't make sense to me. There's still plenty of room for faith after I take my medicine and when I carry a gun, lol.

Personal arms are for when there's no time to pray. Medicine is for when one hasn't been healed yet. (Most medicine, you do have to be cautious nowadays what you allow them to tell you to consume).

 

[crossnote]

I guess Timothy had little to no faith…

1 Timothy 5:23 CSB
[23] Don't continue drinking only water, but use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Medicine has its place. Sometimes God intervenes directly.

 

[Serving Zion]

Saying that medicine and faith are incompatible is like saying that we can't have faith in God and carry a gun in this day and age.

I agree with this. I do not agree that faith is compatible with medicine, as I have said. Medicine is idolatry and is named as pharmakon (pharmakōn) in the book of Revelation (Revelation 9:21, Revelation 21:8, Revelation 22:15). The direct translation of that word is as a drug, a potion for sorcery:


That is a fact that Pharmac does not deny. It is only the ones who believe in the healing power of pharmac that will find it an objectionable fact, and this is why we are warned specifically in Galatians 5:20 that it, being a fruit of the flesh, goes in hand with those having hostility and strife: the very things that James has said are the cause of quarrels and conflicts among us.

You will either turn to God for miraculous healing or to a physician for mechanical repairs:

2 Chronicles 16:12 Interlinear: And Asa is diseased -- in the thirty and ninth year of his reign -- in his feet, till his disease is excessive, and also in his disease he hath not sought Jehovah, but among physicians.

biblehub.com

That just don't make sense to me.

Jeremiah 17:5 could help you make sense of it. What is greater: the power of God or the strength that a human has in his hand?

Medicine is the strength that a human has for repairing the body mechanically. By choosing to use that for one's salvation they are choosing to not seek God's power for healing and life. I do not suggest that the Holy Spirit is unable to work through doctors and nurses though, because 1 John 4:16 "God is love: he who abides in love abides in God and God in him".

I am only saying that medicine is not the way God wants to do things. He is forced to serve through those means because we are not putting our trust in His spiritual power to heal miraculously.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Fallen world. There is no penicillin or anything in Heaven.

 

[Serving Zion]

Satan would not have given man knowledge to heal the million of diseases that would have resulted in the annihilation of mankind.

Satan suppresses the knowledge of God, and it is only by the power of God that the world will be set free from its bondage to decay (Romans 8:21). Pharmaceutical medicines are an opportunity for Satan to impose living hell on the innocent subjects of the experiments, and when you look into the deeper meaning of the root of the word in Greek you will see that it is much deeper than medicine and in fact is rightly translated as witchcraft and sorcery.

 

[jaybo]

Satan suppresses the knowledge of God, and it is only by the power of God that the world will be set free from its bondage to decay (Romans 8:21). Pharmaceutical medicines are an opportunity for Satan to impose living hell on the innocent subjects of the experiments, and when you look into the deeper meaning of the root of the word in Greek you will see that it is much deeper than medicine and in fact is rightly translated as witchcraft and sorcery.

Believer2020 is totally right and you are totally wrong. She wrote "Satan would not have given man knowledge to heal the million of diseases that would have resulted in the annihilation of mankind." That is 110% true.

Are you a JW by any chance? What is your remedy for humanity's physical problems that are so easily solved by pharmaceutical medicines? If you have an infection, do you avoid antibiotics? If you require surgery, do you avoid anesthesia? If you have debilitating allergies, do you avoid antihistamines? Do you prefer to die from COVID-19 or to receive a life-saving vaccine? Etc, etc, etc.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I’m torn. Some medicines have been amazing for humanity. Antibiotics are one example. But….

Ugh. The WHO has a list of essential medicines. Ok. Not too many on the list and they’re almost all older and generic. So…the drug companies and doctors have been pushing shiny new me too pills for all our ills….

Minimal real progress in decades it seems. And much of the increase in life expectancy comes from sanitation running water improvements in living and working conditions and diet…

Not so much medicines.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I don't think everyone should be jumping off their meds very soon.
There is a lot that goes into that thought.
I jumped off my meds a couple of years ago for about two months and my body wrecked havoc with me.
Was my faith too weak or does medicine really play a positive role in our lives.
I find myself able to function well with the way things are.
I worship God everyday with my wife, I am getting closer to being pain free.
I need to lose weight a great deal and it is hard.
But I still take medications for different problems.
I am 100% disabled viet nam vet.
There are reasons for my medications.
I've had a heart attack.
I've had 4 major emergency aorta aneurysm surgeries, almost dying the table with everyone of them.
If I have to take some meds but am still able to serve God with my wife and I do, then so be it!

 

[Serving Zion]

Believer2020 is totally right and you are totally wrong.

Sorry to see you go that way jaybo, there is no coming back unless you turn back.

She wrote "Satan would not have given man knowledge to heal the million of diseases that would have resulted in the annihilation of mankind." That is 110% true.

I wrote that Satan suppresses the knowledge of God, can you say that what I said is 110% true?

I wrote that it is only by the power of God that the world will be set free from its bondage to decay (see Romans 8:21). Medicine has nothing on that, and the more it tries, the more harm it does to the innocent ones.

Are you a JW by any chance?

I am not a JW as you say. I do bear witness to the deeds of Adonai (YHWH) but not to be labeled as you have done.

What is your remedy for humanity's physical problems that are so easily solved by pharmaceutical medicines?

Improperly loaded question: I do not agree with your assertion that pharmaceutical medicines can solve humanity's physical problems easily. Afterall, the best indication we have at this stage is that the Covid-19 pandemic is caused by mistakes in the research into pharmaceutical technologies under the assumption that what they were doing is a thing to benefit humanity.

If you have an infection, do you avoid antibiotics?

Not entirely. I know that there is certain nutritional benefit in various herbs and I especially find the oils of them useful for physical therapy.

If you require surgery, do you avoid anesthesia?

I don't require surgery, again it is a falsely loaded question.

If you have debilitating allergies, do you avoid antihistamines?

I do not have debilitating allergies.

Do you prefer to die from COVID-19 or to receive a life-saving vaccine?

I would rather die. To die is gain.

Etc, etc, etc.

Well, I never.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Believer2020 is totally right and you are totally wrong. She wrote "Satan would not have given man knowledge to heal the million of diseases that would have resulted in the annihilation of mankind." That is 110% true.

Are you a JW by any chance? What is your remedy for humanity's physical problems that are so easily solved by pharmaceutical medicines? If you have an infection, do you avoid antibiotics? If you require surgery, do you avoid anesthesia? If you have debilitating allergies, do you avoid antihistamines? Do you prefer to die from COVID-19 or to receive a life-saving vaccine? Etc, etc, etc.

I would prefer to die from covid.

 

[jaybo]

Sorry to see you go that way jaybo, there is no coming back unless you turn back.

I wrote that Satan suppresses the knowledge of God, can you say that what I said is 110% true?

I wrote that it is only by the power of God that the world will be set free from its bondage to decay (see Romans 8:21). Medicine has nothing on that, and the more it tries, the more harm it does to the innocent ones.


I am not a JW as you say. I do bear witness to the deeds of Adonai (YHWH) but not to be labeled as you have done.

Improperly loaded question: I do not agree with your assertion that pharmaceutical medicines can solve humanity's physical problems easily. Afterall, the best indication we have at this stage is that the Covid-19 pandemic is caused by mistakes in the research into pharmaceutical technologies under the assumption that what they were doing is a thing to benefit humanity.

Not entirely. I know that there is certain nutritional benefit in various herbs and I especially find the oils of them useful for physical therapy.

I don't require surgery, again it is a falsely loaded question.

I do not have debilitating allergies.

I would rather die. To die is gain.

Well, I never.

Okay, I'm done discussing this with you. I hope that, because of your unwillingness to accept God-given medical knowledge, you don't have a prolonged bout of disease and a painful, premature death, but it's a real possibility. Bye -- permanently.

 

[Edward]

Jeremiah 17:5 could help you make sense of it. What is greater: the power of God or the strength that a human has in his hand?

Agreed, God's power is unmatchable and medicine will not be needed in Heaven for us. But keep in mind that the enemy seems to have a pattern of counterfeiting the things that God does. Many times with technology. Well, phones wont be needed either.

But don't forget God's character Brother. He loves all of us so much that He sent His Son, to die for all of us, while we were yet sinners. Scripture says, Jesus could not do many miracles in some town because of their unbelief. (And His people perish for a lack of knowledge!)...and yet, He's watching them die from infirmities that are easily dealt with by Him, so what to do to help them?!
I know, says God...I will give them a Polio Vaccine so they can save their Children.

It can be tough for many people to be able to believe in the unseen. But in the natural, they can see the Doctors so it's easy to believe that and have confidence in them. So God started sending gifts to mankind to help us in our plight (well, the unbelievers plight), and save children from suffering and death. And mankind was Blessed and prospered from it and God did not have to watch so many of His children suffer.

I'll bet money that all those so called crop circles that pop up are coded messages from God bringing blessings of...free energy for all or some such, and the government is keeping it secret to oppress the people.

After God blessed us with Vaccines, they learned how to corrupt them and turn them into slow acting poisons. Greed, corruption, death.

He comes to kill steal and destroy. I can't see the enemy evil sorcerers making a vaccine to save children. That's not how the enemy rolls. Steal. Kill. Destroy.

However, that IS HOW GOD ROLLS!

 

[Serving Zion]

He comes to kill steal and destroy. I can't see the enemy evil sorcerers making a vaccine to save children. That's not how the enemy rolls. Steal. Kill. Destroy.

That's the problem though. Those same doctors will medicate and suppress any person they are able to, who claims to have a relationship with God. They think they are doing good, but their ways are ultimately destructive. Did you listen to those poor owls? How on earth can any person do a thing like that? Is that what God would do?

 

[Serving Zion]

Okay, I'm done discussing this with you. I hope that, because of your unwillingness to accept God-given medical knowledge, you don't have a prolonged bout of disease and a painful, premature death, but it's a real possibility. Bye -- permanently.

Never you mind about that jaybo. I am sorry to see you go that way.

 

[Edward]

Ugh. The WHO has a list of essential medicines. Ok. Not too many on the list and they’re almost all older and generic. So…the drug companies and doctors have been pushing shiny new me too pills for all our ills….

From what I can tell, the Pharmaceutical companies own all the airwaves now. That's all they do is push their new pills on tv and the internet.

Ask your doctor if this pill is right for you.
Ask your doctor if that pill is right for you.
Ask your doctor if another pill is right for you.

So I went to my doctor and said, hey Doc, you know all those commercials on the tube about new pills and and ask your doctor if it's right for you?
...Yes..
Which pills right for me?!

I think I broke his brain. He got such a weird look on his face cuz he thought I was serious I guess, lol.

 

[Edward]

That's the problem though. Those same doctors will medicate and suppress any person they are able to, who claims to have a relationship with God. They think they are doing good, but their ways are ultimately destructive. Did you listen to those poor owls? How on earth can any person do a thing like that? Is that what God would do?

No I didn't. But, Here on earth, amidst Life is Death and amidst Death is Life. So among all of the corruption and greed and poisons, there are good and life giving things also.

When mankind finds a new secret, many times it is a blessing from God for His people. But the first thing man always does with anything is figure out how to weaponize it or use it to oppress and rob the people.

God's Blessings that He gives to man do not need tested on owls or anything. There's also a slew of medicinal herbs which are not poison and give certain types of relief to fallen man in his sickness. So, No, That's not what God would do or intended.

All of the best lies are couched in the truth. So even though the Medical Industry is 99% evil and corrupt, there's a 1% core which is good and useful.

That said, remember that we are in the last days. And that in years past the corruption was less and we could trust our doctors, today a prudent approach is a very cautious approach. I don't take every different pill that they prescribe to me. I go home and look that pill up and read all about it and then decide. I'm not totally anti vax either but I decided that there's too much risk involved and besides...for me, it would be a demonstrated lack of faith in our Lord. So I just pray Psalm 91 over my life and property and haven't had a sniffle in years.