Wherever the corpse is...

[warfrog]

In the Book of Genesis God said

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


Some folks just dont believe God.

What happened to Adam when he ate? did he surely die right there?

No. but he was subjected to death and did physically die.
Now at that point what was the only thing that could keep him from death and im not talking physically because he was going to physically die regardless after eating the fruit.

His relationship with God.

What is the only way to have a relationship with God?

"Noone goes to the Father except through Me"

Now what do we obtain through Christ? Life. Not in this body, the Holy Spirit is gaurentee of recieving life and that life is obtained on His return when corruption puts on incorruption.

Kinda way off the topic subject lol, but i figured i speak about it with you since you posted, perhaps maybe you could start a new thread or p.m so i dont derail the thread lol.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Stormcrow]

What happened to Adam when he ate? did he surely die right there? No.

Et tu, Warfrog? 2

 

[Stormcrow]

I really don't know how these threads get hijacked, but I - for one - am tired of people coming into them and using vitriolic and inflammatory language in an attempt, I believe, to get threads like these killed.

I have fairly thick skin, and can dish it out as well as anybody, but am trying to keep threads like these active in the hope we can have mature conversations about the topics presented.

If people think I'm wrong, how about demonstrating it from the Bible instead of casting aspersions on my character and religion???

In the interest of moving this back on topic, PLEASE, if you agree or disagree with this post, do so Biblically and rationally without all the venom!

Thank you!

 

[Stormcrow]

I've said before futurists dont like what Jesus had to say and neither do they as a whole approve of his kingdom building ability or methods.

They're looking for Christ to return and establish His kingdom here on earth: to save us all from a corrupt government and punish sinners.

It's exactly the same thing the Chief Priests, Scribes, and religious people of His day were seeking.

Were He alive today, I have no doubt that some claiming to follow Him would crucify Him again for failing to live up to their expectations.

 

[Sinthesis]

Jesus got His idea from knowing that the day of His return God would gather together the birds of the air for a great feast of kings, armies, horses ext and they will feast on the bodies of all slain of the Lord at His reutrn, thats where Jesus got the idea from, God my Father, through Christ Jesus.

The carcass is all who gather againts Him and His army at His return, the ones who will be bundled together for the fire, the marked and the worshippers of the beast.

"And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with thier flesh"

They are these also spoken here along with all the rest of the bundles prepared for the fire

"But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished."

Who are the rest of the dead?

"And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to thier works, by the things written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire"

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Psst...

You realize of course that the Book of Job preceded Matt 24 and Luke 17; which themselves preceded the Book of Revelation.

Surely you also realize who the voice of Job 38-39 is:

Job 38:1 ¶ Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Job 38:2 - Who [is] this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?​

So yes! Jesus did get the idea from His Father. However Jesus was referencing Job 39, probably Ezekiel 39, perhaps Proverbs 30:17.

 

[Stormcrow]

"And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to thier works, by the things written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

Hmmm...that reads a lot like this:

{1} "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. {2} "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

{9} He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time. {10} "Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand. Daniel 12:9-10 (NASB)

Hey, wait a minute...even the highlighted stuff in that last verse sounds familiar!

{10} And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. {11} "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy." Revelation 22:10-11 (NASB)

I'm just spit-balling here, but is it possible that Daniel and John are looking at the "end time" from different ends of the telescope???

And if so, wouldn't that put the "end-time" right about when this happened:

{6} And one said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be until the end of these wonders?" {7} I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed. Daniel 12:6-7 (NASB)

{2} "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations [Gentiles]; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. Revelation 11:2 (NASB)

Hmmmm...3.5 years coinciding with the shattering of the power of the "holy people." (That would be the Jews, for anyone wondering.)

Let me think now...3.5 years...42 months...oh yeah: that's how long the first Jewish war with Rome lasted: 3.5 years ending in the complete destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD!

 

[reba]

They're looking for Christ to return and establish His kingdom here on earth: to save us all from a corrupt government and punish sinners.

It's exactly the same thing the Chief Priests, Scribes, and religious people of His day were seeking.

Were He alive today, I have no doubt that some claiming to follow Him would crucify Him again for failing to live up to their expectations.

Yup agreed Storm, Folks can sure try to force theology from Scripture. History has away of repeating its self..

 

[warfrog]

Hmmm...that reads a lot like this:



Hey, wait a minute...even the highlighted stuff in that last verse sounds familiar!



I'm just spit-balling here, but is it possible that Daniel and John are looking at the "end time" from different ends of the telescope???

And if so, wouldn't that put the "end-time" right about when this happened:



Hmmmm...3.5 years coinciding with the shattering of the power of the "holy people." (That would be the Jews, for anyone wondering.)

Let me think now...3.5 years...42 months...oh yeah: that's how long the first Jewish war with Rome lasted: 3.5 years ending in the complete destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD!

Actually thats sounds absolutely nothing alike Stormcrow, and im surprised you would actually say that, as there is no relative connection at all.
The first scripture you cited you could connect with John 5:28-29 directly because they are the exact same.
The next scripture, we fullwell know that the working of lawlessness was at hand during the Apostles time even till now and will be to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now they werent Stormcrow, why? because Daniels visions are directly in line with him going to sleep because at the end of them he would awake to his inheritance, which is the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and the new body, likwise to what He was raised in.
The exact same is for John, these events lead to the day of the inheritance, the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, Revelation however goes beyond that day where Daniel does not.

No Stormcrow ill put the end times to right about when they happen and not a second sooner. Your historical fascination is your own charge but dont let it cloud pure judgement, Rome did not rule the world, nor did a ruler of Rome, in fact not only did rome not rule the world it wasnt destroyed, nor were all with Rome destroyed, Christ didnt return and do that and their ant no spiritual symbolism you can pull up to represent that.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[warfrog]

Yup agreed Storm, Folks can sure try to force theology from Scripture. History has away of repeating its self..

Especially when it doesnt even know when its being done.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Stormcrow]

Rome did not rule the world, nor did a ruler of Rome

Addressed in the other thread: Rome ruled the world at the time the New Testament was written.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Totally dismissing the future reign of the Kingdom of Heaven on this Earth is not wise. Though it may not happen the way dispensationalists and the premillennial world suggests, one is hard pressed to defend a belief that the reign of the Kingdom of God will not one day include this world of ours or that it currently includes this world. Both assumptions look to be errors based on scripture.
Dismissing the reality of a physical resurrection that is to occur may lie at the root of such erroneus conclusions. Mistaking what Jesus spoke of in John 5:28-29 with what Daniel wrote of in Daniel 12:1-4 as being the same event needs to be reconsidered. One, that which was spoken of by Daniel was to occur within the time frame layed out by his prophecy while the other was entirely different.

 

[Stormcrow]

Totally dismissing the future reign of the Kingdom of Heaven on this Earth is not wise.

I don't know of anyone who's rejecting it, simply seeing it's arrival as having already come - as Christ said it did - and expressed by the growth of His church in the world.

 

[Stormcrow]

Actually thats sounds absolutely nothing alike Stormcrow, and im surprised you would actually say that, as there is no relative connection at all.
The first scripture you cited you could connect with John 5:28-29 directly because they are the exact same.
The next scripture, we fullwell know that the working of lawlessness was at hand during the Apostles time even till now and will be to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Tired of discussing this. The word says what it does. Take it or leave it. 2

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I don't know of anyone who's rejecting it, simply seeing it's arrival as having already come - as Christ said it did - and expressed by the growth of His church in the world.

There is little doubt that Jesus rules now and has been for the better part of 2000 years based on what the scriptures reveal, BUT that reign wasn't at that time nor is it yet extended to this world. This world is still a world of sin and death ruled by evil men (tares or darnel). We have not yet come to the time where it is on Earth as it is in Heaven.
I guess the issue we may be wiser to focus on is WHEN will the Kingdom Reign and the peace and joy that come with it become a reality for this world.

 

[Stormcrow]

BUT that reign wasn't at that time nor is it yet extended to this world.

{2} "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 3:2 (NASB)


{17} From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17 (NASB)


{23} Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people. Matthew 4:23 (NASB)


{7} "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' Matthew 10:7 (NASB)


{12} "From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force. {13} "For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. {14} "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come. Matthew 11:12-14 (NASB)


{28} "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Matthew 12:28 (NASB)


{10} And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" {11} Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. Matthew 13:10-11 (NASB)


{29} "But he *said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. {30} ~'Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn."'" Matthew 13:29-30 (NASB)


{19} "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven." Matthew 16:19 (NASB)


{36} Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm." John 18:36 (NASB)


{28} "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 (NASB)


{14} "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14 (NASB)


{16} However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" {17} So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. {18} But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD." Romans 10:16-18 (NASB)

The harvest coincides with "the end." The end comes after the gospel of the kingdom has been preached to all nations. Paul writes in several letters this had already happened.


Please feel free to discuss any issues you have with these words with the people who wrote them.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

The harvest coincides with "the end." The end comes after the gospel of the kingdom has been preached to all nations. Paul writes in several letters this had already happened.


Please feel free to discuss any issues you have with these words with the people who wrote them.

I believe we agree one the topic of the end. It was the end of the covenant relationship between God and physical Israel, the temple system, etc., and NOT the end of planet Earth. The scriptures you quoted do indeed give the time frame for when the Kingdom spoken of originally by Daniel and then proclaimed over and over by Jesus himself would begin. Let there be no doubt about that. That kingdom reign that began in the 1st century shortly after the resurrection of Jesus the Anointed One was not OF THIS WORLD nor has its reign YET been extended to this world. Jesus went to his Father to receive a kingdom and he returned just as he said he would within the lifetimes of his disciples both in judgment of Jerusalem and to collect them, his elect who had been sealed with God's Holy Breath. They were taken and clothed in immortality just as Paul described, and it is THEM who have been given the priviledge of ruling with Jesus in his kingdom, the Kingdom of Heaven. That rule and reign is again one that appears to encompass even the heavenly realm BUT as apparent by the world we have been living in since sin was introduced has NOT YET been exercised here.

 

[reba]

Hey Storm ya ever feel like this???

 

[warfrog]

Addressed in the other thread: Rome ruled the world at the time the New Testament was written.

I think maybe you should review your history first, Rome in fact did not rule the world, Rome ruled Rome.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[warfrog]

The harvest coincides with "the end." The end comes after the gospel of the kingdom has been preached to all nations. Paul writes in several letters this had already happened.


Please feel free to discuss any issues you have with these words with the people who wrote them.

The harvest occurs at the Coming fo the Lord Jesus Christ Stormcrow. the wheat goes into the barn (thousand year reign with Christ) The resurrection to life. The second mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15
And the tares are bundled up for the fire (the grapes in the winepress of God wrath, the rest slain by the sword at Christ's coming)
Those that will join all others who will partake in the resurrection to damnation, the third raising mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15

The wheat is judged at His coming and "live and reign with Christ a thousand years"
the rest of the dead do not live again until the thousand years are finished and are judged here: Rev 20:11-15 when the last who will join them in judgement have been taken care of which occurs here: Rev 20:7-10

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[warfrog]

Hey Storm ya ever feel like this???

You think He ever felt like that when He stood before the pharisees?

No. because love is long suffering and patience.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.