Wherever the corpse is...

[Stormcrow]

I just get frustrated with folks who have trouble in the scriptures understanding simple things

I don't think it's a "simple thing" to hold views - like yours - that call God a liar or don't understand what Adam's immediate separation from God meant regarding the spiritual death his disobedience imparted to us all.

I think those are just plain wrong and, in the latter case, borders on the heretical.

I also think trying to defend an indefensible doctrine has led you to these positions, causing you to reject the clear meaning and intent of the Bible and replace it with your own system of "likes" and "beliefs."

Personally, I don't care what you believe but you shouldn't delude yourself into thinking these beliefs are either scriptural or rational.

Peace. Out.

 

[jasoncran]

Luk 17:37 - And they said to him, "Where, Lord?" He said to them, "Where the corpse* is, there the vultures* will gather."

Footnotes:
* Greek body
* Or eagles
(ESV)
​

Corpse...

Mat 8:21 - And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
Mat 8:22 - But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
​

Vultures...

the romans used an eagle not vulture for their symbol. both hitler and the united state of america got the idea from them.

 

[Sam21]

There are people out there without a bias and distorted approach to the bible who will read what I wrote about the birds finding the bodies in Matt 24 and understand that Christ was simply using a metaphore to illustrate how His return to gather the believers would be. Of course for folks who reject basic christian doctrine, that Christ is to return to gather the saints,such as yourself,nothing in the bible makes sense. I do not wish you peace or God speed lest I be a partaker of your deeds.

 

[Stormcrow]

Of course for folks who reject basic christian doctrine...

that's a little of the pot calling the kettle black, I'd say.

...that Christ is to return to gather the saints,such as yourself,nothing in the bible makes sense.

Shall we go back and look at the posts you've put up where you stray from "basic Christian doctrine" regarding the separation from God (spiritual death) Adam's sin imparted to us?

Shall we go back and look at those posts where you write - not once, but at least twice - that God intended to deceive the early church??

Shall we go back and look at how many times in your posts you've written you don't "like" or "believe" what the scripture plainly states???

Shall we hold you accountable for not being able to cite Jesus' words where He is going to return and establish an earthly kingdom????

You've decided to embrace and defend a doctrine that cannot be defended either scripturally or historically, and it has led you into unscriptural, absurd, and indefensible statements on this website: statements that not even new Christians would make!

I do not wish you peace or God speed lest I be a partaker of your deeds.

I never asked for them nor do I need them from you.

End of discussion.

 

[Hitch]

There are people out there without a bias and distorted approach to the bible who will read what I wrote about the birds finding the bodies in Matt 24 and understand that Christ was simply using a metaphore to illustrate how His return to gather the believers would be. Of course for folks who reject basic christian doctrine, that Christ is to return to gather the saints,such as yourself,nothing in the bible makes sense. I do not wish you peace or God speed lest I be a partaker of your deeds.

That paints a glorious picture Sam.

 

[Sam21]

that's a little of the pot calling the kettle black, I'd say.
Shall we go back and look at the posts you've put up where you stray from "basic Christian doctrine" regarding the separation from God (spiritual death) Adam's sin imparted to us?

Shall we go back and look at those posts where you write - not once, but at least twice - that God intended to deceive the early church??

Shall we go back and look at how many times in your posts you've written you don't "like" or "believe" what the scripture plainly states???

Shall we hold you accountable for not being able to cite Jesus' words where He is going to return and establish an earthly kingdom????

You've decided to embrace and defend a doctrine that cannot be defended either scripturally or historically, and it has led you into unscriptural, absurd, and indefensible statements on this website: statements that not even new Christians would make!

I never asked for them nor do I need them from you.

End of discussion.[/QUOTE The cornered rat will bite at anything;I simply made the statement that I did not agree with the man-created idea that Adam "died a spiritual death",the bible does not say that Adam died a spiritual death,Adam became a sinner when he ate the fruit and he did not die for over 900 years. You hate this part of the bible because it demonstrates that God's time is not necessarily as we think it should be(which blows your religion).
I never said that God intended to deceive the church, I truthfully pointed out that Jesus said to Peter about John,"WHAT IF I will that HE TARRY till I come",if you want to call Jesus a deceiver for leaving the question of the possibility of him returning before John died, an open ended question,then go for it, we all know that John died,don't attack me because I am able to add 2+2.
You want an example of where Jesus said He would return and set up a kingdom? Matt 6:10 Our Father who are in Heaven hallowed be Your name,your KINGDOM COME Your will be done ON EARTH AS IN HEAVEN, since earth today is not at all like Heaven then it is obvious that the Kingdom of God has not yet come.

 

[Hitch]

that's a little of the pot calling the kettle black, I'd say.
Shall we go back and look at the posts you've put up where you stray from "basic Christian doctrine" regarding the separation from God (spiritual death) Adam's sin imparted to us?

Shall we go back and look at those posts where you write - not once, but at least twice - that God intended to deceive the early church??

Shall we go back and look at how many times in your posts you've written you don't "like" or "believe" what the scripture plainly states???

Shall we hold you accountable for not being able to cite Jesus' words where He is going to return and establish an earthly kingdom????

You've decided to embrace and defend a doctrine that cannot be defended either scripturally or historically, and it has led you into unscriptural, absurd, and indefensible statements on this website: statements that not even new Christians would make!

I never asked for them nor do I need them from you.

End of discussion.[/QUOTE The cornered rat will bite at anything;I simply made the statement that I did not agree with the man-created idea that Adam "died a spiritual death",the bible does not say that Adam died a spiritual death,Adam became a sinner when he ate the fruit and he did not die for over 900 years. You hate this part of the bible because it demonstrates that God's time is not necessarily as we think it should be(which blows your religion).
I never said that God intended to deceive the church, I truthfully pointed out that Jesus said to Peter about John,"WHAT IF I will that HE TARRY till I come",if you want to call Jesus a deceiver for leaving the question of the possibility of him returning before John died, an open ended question,then go for it, we all know that John died,don't attack me because I am able to add 2+2.
You want an example of where Jesus said He would return and set up a kingdom? Matt 6:10 Our Father who are in Heaven hallowed be Your name,your KINGDOM COME Your will be done ON EARTH AS IN HEAVEN, since earth today is not at all like Heaven then it is obvious that the Kingdom of God has not yet come.

I've said before futurists dont like what Jesus had to say and neither do they as a whole approve of his kingdom building ability or methods.

In the parables Jesus proclaims a kingdom that grows slowly in history along side the works of the enemy. Futurism as indicated above rejects the slow growth despite that it was Christ himself who taught it. tsk tsk Futurism says in opposition to Christ's teaching that the kingdom is not and that the kingdom is yet to even be 'set up' .

This is as unchristian as it is unbiblical .

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Yes, but with this obvious caveat: Christ's return in both Matthew 24 and Revelation is to execute judgment on the land and people of Jerusalem. This is not a reference to "the rapture" of the saints, as is clearly illustrated by the passage in Ezekiel from which both the passages in Matthew 24 and Revelation 19 are taken.

When one looks to scripture and ALL it says concerning Jesus' parousia one will see that both a judgment AND a gathering of the elect was promised and expected. At his coming, judgment upon Jerusalem would ensue, a literal physical resurrection of dead bodies was to take place, and the ones sanctified and sealed by God's Holy Breath (saints) who were alive and remained would be "caught up" in the air with Jesus and those saints and martyrs who were resurrected. And all of that was to take place within the generation contemporary with Jesus.

 

[warfrog]

Greetings,

Thats the thing, they denie that there will be another generation after His coming, therefore they dont concieve who's the generation Jesus was talking about, perhaps in due time though, may the Lord make it so in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Either way the attitudes towards one another makes me question alot more than just interpretations given by individuals, i see alot of hearts that claim the warmth of the Lord but give off the coldness of a man, im not sure what going on, but i hope we start seeing Him more than putting ourselves infront.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Stormcrow]

I simply made the statement that I did not agree with the man-created idea that Adam "died a spiritual death",the bible does not say that Adam died a spiritual death,Adam became a sinner when he ate the fruit

OK, enough of your nonsense. Sin separates us from God. Separation from God IS spiritual death!!! They are one and the same!!! Shall I cite verses????

{12} Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12 (NASB)

{20} For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. {21} Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. {22} But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. {23} For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:20-23 (NASB)

You're the one on the outside looking in here!

You hate this part of the bible because it demonstrates that God's time is not necessarily as we think it should be(which blows your religion).

Are you trying to get this thread locked??? Why are you being so ugly?

I never said that God intended to deceive the church

Sam21: "God wanted the first church to believe that Jesus could return in their lifetime although it was not in the plan of God for it to happen as we can see today."

Sam21: It is obvious that God allowed,even encouraged, the first century church to believe that Jesus would return in their lifetime,from where we are today we know that Jesus would not return for at least 1900 years...the first century church needed to believe that Christ return was about to occur

Your twisted doctrine has led you to conclude God is a liar. Your own words condemn you. 2

 

[Sinthesis]

the romans used an eagle not vulture for their symbol. both hitler and the united state of america got the idea from them.

Yet where did Jesus get the idea from?

Strong's G105 - aetos - ἀετός
1) an eagle: since eagles do not usually go in quest of carrion, this may to a vulture that resembles an eagle
2) an eagle as a standard (Roman Military)

Mat 24:28 - For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.​

Strong's H5404 - nesher - נֶשֶׁר
1) eagle, vulture, griffon-vulture

Job 39:27 - Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high?
Job 39:28 - She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place.
Job 39:29 - From thence she seeketh the prey, [and] her eyes behold afar off.
Job 39:30 - Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain [are], there [is] she.​

 

[warfrog]

Yet where did Jesus get the idea from?

Strong's G105 - aetos - ἀετός
1) an eagle: since eagles do not usually go in quest of carrion, this may to a vulture that resembles an eagle
2) an eagle as a standard (Roman Military)

Mat 24:28 - For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
​

Strong's H5404 - nesher - נֶשֶׁר
1) eagle, vulture, griffon-vulture

Job 39:27 - Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high?
Job 39:28 - She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place.
Job 39:29 - From thence she seeketh the prey, [and] her eyes behold afar off.
Job 39:30 - Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain [are], there [is] she.
​

Jesus got His idea from knowing that the day of His return God would gather together the birds of the air for a great feast of kings, armies, horses ext and they will feast on the bodies of all slain of the Lord at His reutrn, thats where Jesus got the idea from, God my Father, through Christ Jesus.

The carcass is all who gather againts Him and His army at His return, the ones who will be bundled together for the fire, the marked and the worshippers of the beast.

"And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with thier flesh"

They are these also spoken here along with all the rest of the bundles prepared for the fire

"But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished."

Who are the rest of the dead?

"And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to thier works, by the things written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire"

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[reba]

There are people out there without a bias and distorted approach to the bible who will read what I wrote about the birds finding the bodies in Matt 24 and understand that Christ was simply using a metaphore to illustrate how His return to gather the believers would be. Of course for folks who reject basic christian doctrine, that Christ is to return to gather the saints,such as yourself,nothing in the bible makes sense. I do not wish you peace or God speed lest I be a partaker of your deeds.

Sam you win.

 

[Sam21]

OK, enough of your nonsense. Sin separates us from God. Separation from God IS spiritual death!!! They are one and the same!!! Shall I cite verses????

{12} Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12 (NASB)

{20} For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. {21} Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. {22} But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. {23} For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:20-23 (NASB)

You're the one on the outside looking in here!



Are you trying to get this thread locked??? Why are you being so ugly?





Your twisted doctrine has led you to conclude God is a liar. Your own words condemn you. 2

Romans 5:12 is speaking of physical death. Verse 21 physical death. For the wages of sin is death,again physical death. I suppose that to your mind I am being ugly because I point out where you are changing the scriptures. Jesus did refer to people who are out of the will of God as being dead,however it is a metaphore because they are alive, only dead to a relationship with God. Adam became a sinner,however he still had a relationship with God, that is where you are missing it,if God had cursed Adam then Adam would have become spiritually dead,however Adam still had a relationship with God,after sinning God had to deal with Adam as with a sinner by teaching him to offer animal sacrifices,but Adam still had a relationship with God. The term "spritually dead" was made up,it did not come from anywhere in Genesis.

 

[Stormcrow]

Romans 5:12 is speaking of physical death. Verse 21 physical death. For the wages of sin is death,again physical death. I suppose that to your mind I am being ugly because I point out where you are changing the scriptures. Jesus did refer to people who are out of the will of God as being dead,however it is a metaphore because they are alive, only dead to a relationship with God. Adam became a sinner,however he still had a relationship with God, that is where you are missing it,if God had cursed Adam then Adam would have become spiritually dead,however Adam still had a relationship with God,after sinning God had to deal with Adam as with a sinner by teaching him to offer animal sacrifices,but Adam still had a relationship with God. The term "spritually dead" was made up,it did not come from anywhere in Genesis.

Nonsense. 2

 

[warhorse]

Jesus got His idea from knowing that the day of His return God would gather together the birds of the air for a great feast of kings, armies, horses ext and they will feast on the bodies of all slain of the Lord at His reutrn, thats where Jesus got the idea from, God my Father, through Christ Jesus.

The carcass is all who gather againts Him and His army at His return, the ones who will be bundled together for the fire, the marked and the worshippers of the beast.

"And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with thier flesh"

They are these also spoken here along with all the rest of the bundles prepared for the fire

"But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished."

Who are the rest of the dead?

"And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to thier works, by the things written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire"

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Agreed, an earthbound wedding feast indeed.

 

[Sam21]

Nonsense. 2

I wrote nothing but biblical truth, I suppose to you that is nonsense.

 

[Stormcrow]

I wrote nothing but biblical truth, I suppose to you that is nonsense.

"Death through sin" is not equivalent to physical death by Dr. Hugh Ross, M.Sc., Ph.D. (from his book "Creation And Time")

The book of Romans discusses four kinds of death: death to the law, death to sin, physical death, and spiritual death. Romans 5:12 addresses neither physical nor soulish death. It addresses spiritual death. When Adam sinned, he instantly "died," just as God said he would ("In the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die" - Genesis 2:17, NKJV). Yet, he remained alive physically and soulishly (i.e., mentally, volitionally, and emotionally). He died spiritually. He broke his harmonious fellowship with God and introduced the inclination to place one's own way above God's.

This is my last post to you, as it's clearly pointless to continue discussing such things with both an obvious heretic and thread-killer.

Your own words condemn you.

 

[reba]

The wages of sin is physical death?

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Yup i was dead and in the grave when i was saved!

 

[reba]

In the Book of Genesis God said

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


Some folks just dont believe God.