Who are the Four Horsemen?

[Kathi]

Did god give him a dream of airplanes or helicopters or did god give him a dream of things to come?

I do not know if john understood all things in the dream but we know that the angel told him what some of the wonders in the dream ment.
We know the dragon with seven heads and ten horns is a kingdom
we know that the dragon is also satan (according to the scripture in revelations)
we know that babylon the great the mother of harlots is a great city that reigns over the kings of the earth
We know their will be saints that will be killed during the times when the things in the revelations start to come to pass.
We know about the judgment after the great day of his wrath.
we know that the judgment day will be more over a year of plagues according to the revelations

but here is what i say brethren there was two men and one lord and each of the men was reading one book
one of the men was a wise man and the other was a foolish man.

The wise man understood that the author of the book was his lord though his lord caused his servants to write it. He understood that all things that are in the book is what his lord wanted. The foolish man believed that the book was not accurate because other men wrote it, He said how can we believe the things in this book there might be errors seeing that men wrote it.

The wise man understood that the lord written the book in a special way. So if there was a thing he does not understand, he understands that the book will correct him.

The foolish man went to other books and speculations and historians,videos,scribes and pharisees and hypocrites of this generation for answer in the book for the things he did not understand in the bok.

Which one of these men was of faith? The wise man or the fool who looked for reproofs in every other thing except the book for the things he did not understand?

The same as it is with these two so it is with the men of this generation.
there are those who interpret the bible by the wisdom of the world
and they're those who understand the commandment by faith
the bible is not a normal book it is a book written by faith

so how can a man understand it if a man tries to interpret it without faith?
many interpret the bible with out the reproofs of the bible.

When we are looking for truths in the law of god understand one thing brethren. The scripture of truth will tell you the same thing in different ways to assure your interpretation of it. If you find something odd or that does not add up it can be your interpretation of it is wrong. It may be The lord is correcting you by causing a confusion on the word that you that was the correct teaching.

as it is written in 2 timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Understand brethren that the scripture is not of the books of this world but of faith

God gave John he Revelation of things to come.But that was way in the future.Some of the things happening in our day would not be very clear to John.

 

[Themessengeroftruth]

God gave John he Revelation of things to come.But that was way in the future.Some of the things happening in our day would not be very clear to John.

Kathi you don't seem to understand what it is i am saying to you.
God told john what was appointed for him
but god knew that john would write it because the lord did not just give john the dream for himself
but for us, so we can know the things to come by a vision the lord gave to him

God is a god of faith and he is in power. He knows all what a man will do and he causes it to be so.

God did not tell john about helicopters because that was not important for us.
What was important? the warnings of revelations was important for us

for we are in the last days and the lord fulling his word

in amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, unless he reveals his secret unto his servants the prophets.

What profit would john have knowing the things of the end when it was not in his day?
the vision was given to john but the interpretation of it was for us

the prophets and apostles and children of the lord in the last days. but by john being a servant of god who gave the vision

for remember there was not a prophet greater than john the baptist and even jesus said the greatest among you shall be your servant.

john served the lord and commited a service unto us the children of the last days by writting the things which he saw in the vision and god put all the books together and behold you have the bible

 

[th1b.taylor]

The first horseman Revelation 6:2 is the Antichrist who will be given authority and will conquer.
The second horseman Revelation 6:4 is the terrible warfare.
The third horseman Revelation 6:5-6 is a great famine as a result of wars.
The fourth horseman Revelation 6:8 is death and devastation that will bring more death,warfare and famine.These horsemen are only "precursors" to the worst that is yet to come.

I thought you were serious when I saw the title of this one but you shot me in my big toes. I'll bet you have been pouring yourself into study for the Revelation at some point also. I taught it year before last and my men loved the insight.

 

[reba]

God gave John he Revelation of things to come.But that was way in the future.Some of the things happening in our day would not be very clear to John.

Future to John?
any time from the writing of The Revelation to today was future to John..

 

[Kathi]

I thought you were serious when I saw the title of this one but you shot me in my big toes. I'll bet you have been pouring yourself into study for the Revelation at some point also. I taught it year before last and my men loved the insight.

It is a hard book to read at times.

 

[Kathi]

Future to John?
any time from the writing of The Revelation to today was future to John..

That is true.John had not seen all that there is in this world today.

 

[Eugene]

Kathi you don't seem to understand what it is i am saying to you.
God told john what was appointed for him
but god knew that john would write it because the lord did not just give john the dream for himself
but for us, so we can know the things to come by a vision the lord gave to him

God is a god of faith and he is in power. He knows all what a man will do and he causes it to be so.

God did not tell john about helicopters because that was not important for us.
What was important? the warnings of revelations was important for us

for we are in the last days and the lord fulling his word

in amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, unless he reveals his secret unto his servants the prophets.

What profit would john have knowing the things of the end when it was not in his day?
the vision was given to john but the interpretation of it was for us

the prophets and apostles and children of the lord in the last days. but by john being a servant of god who gave the vision

for remember there was not a prophet greater than john the baptist and even jesus said the greatest among you shall be your servant.

john served the lord and commited a service unto us the children of the last days by writting the things which he saw in the vision and god put all the books together and behold you have the bible

Themessengeroftruth - God told john what was appointed for him . .
Eugene – In reference to the following scripture will you please expound what you are saying using scripture to back you up if you know it?
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Themessengeroftruth - the lord did not just give john the dream for himself . .
Eugene - Does the following scripture say John was in a dream?
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day . .
In fact, do you know when the Lord's Day is?

Could the following experience of Paul be relevant to what John experienced?
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Themessengeroftruth - God did not tell john about helicopters because that was not important for us.
Eugene – I believe Kathi is referring to the following scripture as the possibility of what John was shown as being helicopters, just as many have speculated over the years. Do you have reason to believe they are only insects?

Rev 9:7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Rev 9:8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

 

[Themessengeroftruth]

Themessengeroftruth - God told john what was appointed for him . .
Eugene – In reference to the following scripture will you please expound what you are saying using scripture to back you up if you know it?
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Themessengeroftruth - the lord did not just give john the dream for himself . .
Eugene - Does the following scripture say John was in a dream?
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day . .
In fact, do you know when the Lord's Day is?

Could the following experience of Paul be relevant to what John experienced?
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Themessengeroftruth - God did not tell john about helicopters because that was not important for us.
Eugene – I believe Kathi is referring to the following scripture as the possibility of what John was shown as being helicopters, just as many have speculated over the years. Do you have reason to believe they are only insects?

Rev 9:7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Rev 9:8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

Eugene when a man dreams is he in the flesh or in spirit?
and i understand what kathi and you are saying as far as the helicopters but what i am telling you that i do not think that is the correct interpretation of it.

in the scripture god describes how he will shake the earth and it i tell you the truth, it is not a normal earthquake, how the lord describes it, it seems like he is going to throw the earth around like a ball. possibly some super strong wind from outer space that will move the earth out of its place.
and their is scripture backing this interpretation.

isaiah 13:13
Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

isaiah 13:14
And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

isaiah 24:20

The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

revelations 6 14
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.



Those things are not normal. The earth reeling to and fro like a drunkard. have you ever been drunk? when a man is heavy with whine he walks two steps forward 5 steps backwards and 3 steps to the side? he staggers to and fro
and the earth is going to do the same?

he says the heavens shall be departed as a scroll. do you understand how much force for the sky on the earth to be rolled to gether as a scroll?

he said every mountain shall fall. Do you know how much power it is for that to happen?

My point is eugene the things in the last days are not going to be normal so why would god give john a vision about helicopters as the horsmen?

i believe those horsemen are that are spoken of in revelation are exactly what revelations said it was

Rev 9:7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Rev 9:8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

remember eugene the bible describes it self

why would god cause helicopters to torment men five months? seeing that all who are left upon the earth will be in judgment day? save for the remnant?

see you forgot to put rev 9:10
And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

why would god cause helicopters to hurt men five months seeing that helicopters are flown by men? but all men that left save the remnant shall be in judgment and they all gonna be in pain and sorrow.

this is what i mean when i say the bible interpret it self if it was helicopters than the lord would of said so and how can a helicopter fly when its gonna be complete darkness? remember that might earthquake that shall shake heaven, do you think a helicopter is going to be able to withstand the damage?

You guys must understand that all things is possible with god. if god says he will make some wierd creature during the last days to plague men then it will happen. if he says their is going to be some weird creature during the last days then it will happen

the horsemen i meant the creatures that are going to be in the last days in revelations nine* should never called them horsmen

 

[Themessengeroftruth]

and again eugene and kathi as i said in previous post. when you looking to interpret the bible dont look to scholars and the wisemen of this world because they try to interpret with the wisdom of the world. the wisdom of the world is foolishness to god and the wisdom of god is foolishness to this world.

for the wisdom of god is of faith and the wisdom of this world looks for facts

 

[Themessengeroftruth]

for as it is written faith is the evidence of things hoped for for things that is not seen according to the bible

hebrews 11

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

but fact is the evidence of what you do see. as you see faith according to the bible and the fact of this world are opposite from one another. so is the wisdom of christ and the wisdom of this world.

for the children of this world want proof and facts they see with their eyes but the children of the world to come look for evidence of things that is not seen.

the bible is in the world but not of this world the bible is of faith. so those scholars and wise men of this world do not understand the bible because they are of this world

so many of their interpretation of it is wrong

 

[Eugene]

Eugene when a man dreams is he in the flesh or in spirit?
and i understand what kathi and you are saying as far as the helicopters but what i am telling you that i do not think that is the correct interpretation of it.

in the scripture god describes how he will shake the earth and it i tell you the truth, it is not a normal earthquake, how the lord describes it, it seems like he is going to throw the earth around like a ball. possibly some super strong wind from outer space that will move the earth out of its place.
and their is scripture backing this interpretation.

isaiah 13:13
Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

isaiah 13:14
And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

isaiah 24:20

The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

revelations 6 14
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


Those things are not normal. The earth reeling to and fro like a drunkard. have you ever been drunk? when a man is heavy with whine he walks two steps forward 5 steps backwards and 3 steps to the side? he staggers to and fro
and the earth is going to do the same?

he says the heavens shall be departed as a scroll. do you understand how much force for the sky on the earth to be rolled to gether as a scroll?

he said every mountain shall fall. Do you know how much power it is for that to happen?

My point is eugene the things in the last days are not going to be normal so why would god give john a vision about helicopters as the horsmen?

i believe those horsemen are that are spoken of in revelation are exactly what revelations said it was

Rev 9:7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Rev 9:8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

remember eugene the bible describes it self

why would god cause helicopters to torment men five months? seeing that all who are left upon the earth will be in judgment day? save for the remnant?

see you forgot to put rev 9:10
And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

why would god cause helicopters to hurt men five months seeing that helicopters are flown by men? but all men that left save the remnant shall be in judgment and they all gonna be in pain and sorrow.

this is what i mean when i say the bible interpret it self if it was helicopters than the lord would of said so and how can a helicopter fly when its gonna be complete darkness? remember that might earthquake that shall shake heaven, do you think a helicopter is going to be able to withstand the damage?

You guys must understand that all things is possible with god. if god says he will make some wierd creature during the last days to plague men then it will happen. if he says their is going to be some weird creature during the last days then it will happen

the horsemen i meant the creatures that are going to be in the last days in revelations nine* should never called them horsmen

I do not see evidence that John was dreaming. Being transported as it were to the Lord’s Day I see no reason John was not fully cognizant of what was being shown him, even to Rev 4:1 where he is told to go up into heaven, and the reason I gave the example of Paul being caught up into paradise in 2 Cor 12:3-4 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise.

And again I ask of your statement that “God told John” in view of Rev 1:1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: can you expound this verse for me?

As to God being making insects as described in rev 9:7-9, I agree that God can do anything, and really don’t care what they may be because I don’t plan on being present on the earth at that time to experience it. Strange? I hope to be included among those said to be four beasts as John describes them, or as the four living ones Ezekiel sees them as.

 

[Eugene]

and again eugene and kathi as i said in previous post. when you looking to interpret the bible dont look to scholars and the wisemen of this world because they try to interpret with the wisdom of the world. the wisdom of the world is foolishness to god and the wisdom of god is foolishness to this world.

for the wisdom of god is of faith and the wisdom of this world looks for facts

That would be especially relevant to you saying God told John in view of Rev 1:1, when God the Father actually gave the Revelation of Jesus unto Jesus.

 

[th1b.taylor]

It is a hard book to read at times.

Yes and if a person has not grounded themselves in the Old Testament so as to recognize that the manuscript was not written in the linear fashion it can be impossible to read. Before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit this book was a complete mystery to me. And since some of the things that have already taken place and are not all in the early parts of this one it can still be tough to read.

 

[Edward]

That is true.John had not seen all that there is in this world today.

Neither have we!

Symbolism? I'm not so sure about that. I think they could be real, very real. Spiritual beings in a spiritual war doing what they do. Just because it sounds like Twilight Zone doesn't mean it couldn't be a reality. We don't know how the spiritual realm works.

 

[Themessengeroftruth]

I do not see evidence that John was dreaming. Being transported as it were to the Lord’s Day I see no reason John was not fully cognizant of what was being shown him, even to Rev 4:1 where he is told to go up into heaven, and the reason I gave the example of Paul being caught up into paradise in 2 Cor 12:3-4 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise.

And again I ask of your statement that “God told John” in view of Rev 1:1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: can you expound this verse for me?

As to God being making insects as described in rev 9:7-9, I agree that God can do anything, and really don’t care what they may be because I don’t plan on being present on the earth at that time to experience it. Strange? I hope to be included among those said to be four beasts as John describes them, or as the four living ones Ezekiel sees them as.

for the debate of god told john in rev 1.1 let me say this.
yes god did not say it was a dream or if it was not as he did with daniel but he said.

i was in the spirit on the lords day. now we know all things is possible. It is possible that an agnel came to john and showed him these things while he was awake but we also know that god sent angels in dreams to his servants in times passed.

here is why i say it was a dream

numbers 12:6

5 And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.

6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

now i am not saying that its not possible that he saw in the flesh but going by scripture unless god says he spoke face to face i assume it was a vision because the scripture

 

[reba]

Do we use the media headlines to interpret or understand God's Word or does Scripture interpret Scripture...

 

[jasonc]

Do we use the media headlines to interpret or understand God's Word or does Scripture interpret Scripture...

I prefer to use the bible itself(solo scriptura) of course one has to understand Hebrew idioms.

 

[Eugene]

for the debate of god told john in rev 1.1 let me say this.
yes god did not say it was a dream or if it was not as he did with daniel but he said.

i was in the spirit on the lords day. now we know all things is possible. It is possible that an agnel came to john and showed him these things while he was awake but we also know that god sent angels in dreams to his servants in times passed.

here is why i say it was a dream

numbers 12:6

5 And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.

6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

now i am not saying that its not possible that he saw in the flesh but going by scripture unless god says he spoke face to face i assume it was a vision because the scripture

That's what you get for assuming, next you might be led to think those insects of Revelation Chapter nine are helicopters.
The thing is that Jesus did in fact send His angel (messenger) to give Jesus' Revelation to John Who was that angel?
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

 

[Themessengeroftruth]

That's what you get for assuming, next you might be led to think those insects of Revelation Chapter nine are helicopters.
The thing is that Jesus did in fact send His angel (messenger) to give Jesus' Revelation to John Who was that angel?
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

but why did i assume remember moses was the only servant god spoke to face to face everyother he spoke either by his word or visions of the night. did god say he was awake did god say he was asleep or did god say he was in the spirit? but when you dream are in the flesh or in the spirit tell me? and why are you laughing as if this is something to scoff at? and it was not i who thought the insects of revelation nine are helicopters but it was you and kathi.

i go by what is written in the law of the bible. i do not assume by the wisdom of the word i go by what was written

 

[Themessengeroftruth]

Do we use the media headlines to interpret or understand God's Word or does Scripture interpret Scripture...

scripture interprets scripture