Who Are The Magi

[felix]

Yes Balaam was called a prophet by Peter, but not a prophet of God, but a false prophet used by Satan.

So, who was it who spoke with Balaam? and who sent the angel to stop him?
How did Satan coming into picture? Why do you add things which Scripture doesn't say?

 

[farouk]

So, who was it who spoke with Balaam? and who sent the angel to stop him?
How did Satan coming into picture? Why do you add things which Scripture doesn't say?

felix: what is your point?

 

[Free]

In Daniel 9 the Magi had been given the prophecy of Messiah being cut off in the midst of His 35th year. They knew this event would occur 483 Babylonian years of 360 days after the Persian King Artaxerxes issued a decree. With this piece of information they deducted the Messiah would be born 32B.C.

You're suggesting that Jesus was born in 32 BC?

 

[for_his_glory]

Then, in your own words, God and angels of God will speak and warn to false prophets and sorcerers. So, what is your take on it? Become a false prophet?

Not my words, but the words of God in one example - Numbers 22:12-35 as God used an angel to work and speak through an ass to warn Balaam who was a false prophet set on destroying Israel.

 

[felix]

Not my words, but the words of God in one example - Numbers 22:12-35 as God used an angel to work and speak through an ass to warn Balaam who was a false prophet set on destroying Israel.

What you quoted is not your words but what you "added" which are not mentioned in scriptures are your words. i.e., God will speak to false prophets and send angels to warn false prophets and Balaam is a false prophet.

 

[felix]

felix: what is your point?

That, Balaam is a prophet of God as mentioned by Peter who is referred as a diviner in OT. Similarly, Magi are prophets and holy men of God from the East as mentioned in Acts.

 

[for_his_glory]

So, who was it who spoke with Balaam? and who sent the angel to stop him?
How did Satan coming into picture? Why do you add things which Scripture doesn't say?

Satan is certainly in the picture as where do false prophets, sorcerers, diviners come from, surely not from God.

 

[for_his_glory]

What you quoted is not your words but what you "added" which are not mentioned in scriptures are your words. i.e., God will speak to false prophets and send angels to warn false prophets and Balaam is a false prophet.

Well, I'm not sure what Bible you are studying from, but my KJV most definitely says all of this. Did you even read what is said in Numbers 22:12-35 because if you did you would not be asking me this question.

 

[for_his_glory]

You're suggesting that Jesus was born in 32 BC?

I'm not suggesting anything as if you would have read this you would see it was the Maji that figured that out with the information they had and they must have been right since they were in Bethlehem at the birth of Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

It's late and i need to go. will pick this back up tomorrow afternoon.

 

[felix]

Satan is certainly in the picture as where do false prophets, sorcerers, diviners come from, surely not from God.

(Num 22:9) Then God came to Balaam and said, "Who [are] these men with you?"

Does KJV say Satan came to Balaam?

Let me tell you a secret:

(Num 22:18) Then Balaam answered and said to the servants of Balak, "Though Balak were to give me his house full of silver and gold, I could not go beyond the word of the LORD my God, to do less or more.

KJV is good in removing the name of the Lord YHWH from Scriptures. The word used for LORD is YHWH as in Num 22:18 which is also same in Exo 6:3.

(Exod 6:3) I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but [by] My name LORD I was not known to them.

It is God who is saying to Moses that His name is YHWH which is NOT known to anyone before Moses even to Abraham, Issac and Jacob. BUT, Moses when writing the book of Numbers which is a part of the Law says, Balaam who can no contact with Moses knew the name of the Lord as YHWH who mentioned it as a quote.

So, you want to say that Satan came to Balaam and spoke as it it was God and blessed Israel? I wonder where you get these ideas from?

 

[Free]

I'm not suggesting anything as if you would have read this you would see it was the Maji that figured that out with the information they had and they must have been right since they were in Bethlehem at the birth of Christ.

No, you're suggesting that Jesus was born in 32 BC. I'm curious to know if there are any biblical scholars who would agree as I have never come across such a suggestion before. And, no, they likely weren't in Bethlehem at the birth of Christ but a fair bit later. The star appeared at Jesus' birth.

Mat 2:1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, (ESV)

Mat 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men. (ESV)

 

[for_his_glory]

What you quoted is not your words but what you "added" which are not mentioned in scriptures are your words. i.e., God will speak to false prophets and send angels to warn false prophets and Balaam is a false prophet.

Maybe you need to study who Balaam was as scripture needs no defining here.

 

[for_his_glory]

Does KJV say Satan came to Balaam?

Let me tell you a secret:



KJV is good in removing the name of the Lord YHWH from Scriptures. The word used for LORD is YHWH as in Num 22:18 which is also same in Exo 6:3.



It is God who is saying to Moses that His name is YHWH which is NOT known to anyone before Moses even to Abraham, Issac and Jacob. BUT, Moses when writing the book of Numbers which is a part of the Law says, Balaam who can no contact with Moses knew the name of the Lord as YHWH who mentioned it as a quote.

So, you want to say that Satan came to Balaam and spoke as it it was God and blessed Israel? I wonder where you get these ideas from?

2 Peter 2:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

(no mention of being a prophet of God as he was rebuked for his iniquity as he was an unrighteous man. The reason I mentioned Satan in all of this is because he uses people like Barak and Balaam as they are unaware that he does.)

Numbers Chapter 22 shows how God used and angel through that of Balaams ass to stop Balaam from carring out the instructions from Balak to destroy Israel.

Numbers Chapter 24 Balaam saw that it pleased God to bless Israel as he looked upon Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes. God showed Balaam when he fell into a trance that no matter what Balaam set his hand to do against Israel that God would not only defeat him, but cause him to perish. Balaam went back to tell this to Balak whom sent him out to curse Israel and Balak was angered by this and sent Balaam away from him as Balak wanted to honor Balaam for destroying Israel.

 

[for_his_glory]

No, you're suggesting that Jesus was born in 32 BC. I'm curious to know if there are any biblical scholars who would agree as I have never come across such a suggestion before. And, no, they likely weren't in Bethlehem at the birth of Christ but a fair bit later. The star appeared at Jesus' birth.

Mat 2:1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, (ESV)

Mat 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men. (ESV)

I already explained about 32 BC in my OP. I never suggested it, but if you go back and read what I already posted you will see where the 32BC came from and the Maji's knowledge of the star through that of Daniels prophecy he spoke to them. Now, from the time the Maji saw the star it took them approximately three weeks to travel to Jerusalem where they met Herod on their way as they stopped to asked for directions. We all know the star marked the timing of the birth of Christ, but scripture never states how long Mary and Joseph stayed in Bethlehem after Jesus was born. After seeing the star it took the Maji three weeks to get there and we can only assume Mary and Joseph were there maybe a month or less as after the Maji presented their gifts they had left and scripture sates in Matthew 22:13 that when they left the angel of God warned Joseph to flee from there and go to Egypt as Herod was planning on killing Jesus.

 

[felix]

Maybe you need to study who Balaam was as scripture needs no defining here.

If he is a false prophet, then, tell me a false prophecy he spoke of.

 

[felix]

2 Peter 2:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

(no mention of being a prophet of God as he was rebuked for his iniquity as he was an unrighteous man. The reason I mentioned Satan in all of this is because he uses people like Barak and Balaam as they are unaware that he does.)

Numbers Chapter 22 shows how God used and angel through that of Balaams ass to stop Balaam from carring out the instructions from Balak to destroy Israel.

Numbers Chapter 24 Balaam saw that it pleased God to bless Israel as he looked upon Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes. God showed Balaam when he fell into a trance that no matter what Balaam set his hand to do against Israel that God would not only defeat him, but cause him to perish. Balaam went back to tell this to Balak whom sent him out to curse Israel and Balak was angered by this and sent Balaam away from him as Balak wanted to honor Balaam for destroying Israel.

No mention?
The last word of 2 Peter 2:16 in your quote from the Bible is "Prophet". I think you overlooked it.

 

[for_his_glory]

No mention?
The last word of 2 Peter 2:16 in your quote from the Bible is "Prophet". I think you overlooked it.

I didn't overlook anything. Yes, Paul called him a prophet, but not as a prophet of God as there was none of Gods righteousness found in Balaam. Again, go study the purpose of Balaam coming to Israel and who it was that sent him.

 

[felix]

I didn't overlook anything. Yes, Paul called him a prophet, but not as a prophet of God as there was none of Gods righteousness found in Balaam. Again, go study the purpose of Balaam coming to Israel and who it was that sent him.

It is not Paul who called Balaam as prophet but Peter. Anyway, Scripture defines who is a false prophet in Deut 18:21. Since He is not a false prophet (since there are no false prophecies - actually all his prophecies came true), who was it that spoke with Balaam for him to prophesy?

If Balaam is not a prophet of God,

• who's prophet is he?
• who's angel stopped him on the way?
• who opened the mouth of the donkey?
• who spoke with him to say exactly what He says?

Are you being mesmerized by any means that a prophet of God will never fall away?

 

[John 8:32]

As a dear friend of mine says, axial tilt is the reason for the season. Jesus Christ was not born anywhere near December 25 and the scripture is quite plain about it. It also tells us a few things about the wise men from the East...

Mat 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Mat 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

First of all, how many were there? More than one, could have been forty, the scripture does not say. How did they find Christ? "for we have seen his star in the east".

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

They were led there by an angel.

Mat 2:7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
Mat 2:8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
Mat 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
Mat 2:10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

There are three types of gifts listed, but it doesn't even say that is all they gave Him. Now carefully notice verse 8...

Mat 2:8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.

Not a baby but a young child.

Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

No longer in a manger in a stable, they were home again and had been there for a while...

Mat 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

Mat 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.

Now, Herod was killing children up to two years old based on this...

Mat 2:7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.

This is the understanding of...

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Who is the sun, moon and stars?

Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Gen 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

There is much more to learn from this account. Far more than is given in phony Xmas plays and stories.