Who Believes We Are In The End Time??

[rainbows]

Hello Stormcrow.

You replied;

I don't "cling" to any doctrine. I follow the evidence where it leads.

Showing some Christian wisdom in that answer.

I have a simple approach to a simple Gospel,
Jesus Christ is my number one.

Only one month ago I put on a pair of very
comfortable shoes. These shoes were post
tribulation shoes, just trying to wear them
in at the moment.

If the ground becomes unsuitable for post
trib footwear then I will discard them.

Never had to alter my belief in Jesus Christ.

 

[reba]

The days of vengeance in my view would have been the seague of Jerusalem about 70 ad

 

[reba]

Hello Reba, thanks again for the welcome.

I do not believe we are seeing "normal" days
by any measure. Please note some of the
phrases used in Luke 21.

" do not be terrified;"

"because these are days of vengeance"

"there will be great earthquakes in various places"

"there will be fearful sights and great signs"

"and be led away captive into all nations."

“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; "

What is your opinion Reba?

Regarding your second post.

Yes, Jesus is the head of the invisible,
non denominational, spiritual, church.
It is a work in progress.

Sound about like the headlines in the papers

 

[Stormcrow]

But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 By your patience possess your souls.

I only have time to address this issue right now. Will get to the others have I have time. This one is really important to understand.

I once believed in a future return of Christ until I started reading Christ's words in context and looking at the bigger picture. The “big picture” is what I hope people will get from the following.

The words from Christ – seen here in Luke – have been recorded elsewhere. Here are those references:

"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. "But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. "But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. "For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:16-23 (NASB)

"If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. "Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. "But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me. "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. John 15:18-22 (NASB)

"These things I have spoken to you so that you may be kept from stumbling. "They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God. "These things they will do because they have not known the Father or Me. "But these things I have spoken to you, so that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you of them. These things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you. John 16:1-4 (NASB)

So Christ is telling His disciples they are going to be persecuted – killed, in fact – because of the gospel. But then He tells His enemies that they are going to be the ones persecuting His disciples, and tells them they will pay for it!

"Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! Matthew 23:34-38 (NASB)

"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Matthew 24:9-10 (NASB)

Jesus is telling the chief priest, scribes, and Pharisees that they will be held accountable for all the prophets they would kill, and even those whom their forefathers killed! (Read Matthew chapters 21-23 for the full context of what He's telling His enemies during His last Passover week.)

So when did this all begin?

Saul was in hearty agreement with putting him [Stephen] to death. And on that day a great persecution began against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. Some devout men buried Stephen, and made loud lamentation over him. But Saul began ravaging the church, entering house after house, and dragging off men and women, he would put them in prison. Acts 8:1-3 (NASB)

John was part of this persecution:

I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. Revelation 1:9 (NASB)

And the souls under the altar in Revelation 6? The apostles killed for the testimony of Jesus during this tribulation!

When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Revelation 6:9-11 (NASB)

The vengeance they are seeking is the vengeance Christ told the chief priests, scribes, and Pharisees - within earshot of His disciples - they would receive for killing His messengers: His disciples who would later become His apostles empowered by the Holy Spirit!

Now, there's one more passage I want to draw your attention to then I'll wrap this up. When Jesus is telling His disciples He is sending them to the "house of Israel", and when He is telling the chief priests, scribes, and Pharisees that He is sending them prophets and apostles, He is equating Himself with God and repeating an earlier judgment Jerusalem faced for killing His messengers:

The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place; but they continually mocked the messengers of God, despised His words and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, until there was no remedy.

Therefore He brought up against them the king of the Chaldeans who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion on young man or virgin, old man or infirm; He gave them all into his hand. All the articles of the house of God, great and small, and the treasures of the house of the LORD, and the treasures of the king and of his officers, he brought them all to Babylon. Then they burned the house of God and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burned all its fortified buildings with fire and destroyed all its valuable articles. Those who had escaped from the sword he carried away to Babylon; and they were servants to him and to his sons until the rule of the kingdom of Persia, 2 Chronicles 36:15-20 (NASB)

The events of 587 BC were essentially repeated in 70 AD by the Romans because the people killed their Messiah and persecuted to death those He sent to them.

And this persecution (tribulation) that was both a sign and a cause of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD is also a sign for His second coming, which was just like God's coming in judgment upon Jerusalem seen in the Old Testament:

you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes

"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

So many other passages involved in this, but you can start with these. This all just scratches the surface. Done for now.

And just to bring this all back on point...

This is why we're not in the end times.

 

[rainbows]

Appreciate the reply Stormcrow, will look into your reply more deeply
tomorrow.

 

[rainbows]

Hello stormcrow, did read your reply and felt compelled
to reply.

Please read the following carefully.

Matthew 24

24 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”

25 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Do you notice that there are two specific questions that the disciples are
asking.

1) When will the temple be torn down.

2) Then the sign of your arrival at the end of the age.

These are two separate questions that Jesus answers, be
very careful in how you understand the reply of Jesus.

One concerns the Jewish nation, this is within one generation.

And the other relates to the end of the age, Jesus returning.

Here is the proof of this correct rendering.

"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all .....nations....... because of My name. "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Matthew 24:9-10 (NASB)

This concerns the end of the age, not the generation.

I hope you do see the very important distinction scarecrow.

 

[rainbows]

The days of vengeance in my view would have been the seague of Jerusalem about 70 ad

Yes Reba you are correct.

 

[Stormcrow]

And the other relates to the end of the age, Jesus returning.

Here is the proof of this correct rendering.

"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all .....nations....... because of My name. "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Matthew 24:9-10 (NASB)

First of all, ask yourself, "what is the 'end of the age?'"

Secondly, please note the following:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 (NASB)

The disciples didn't sit around in Jerusalem very long after the Holy Spirit arrived. They were driven out - in part - by the persecution that began with the stoning of Stephen. But they also took Christ's commission seriously. Here's the proof:

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. Romans 1:8 (NASB)

But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD." Romans 10:18 (NASB)

...the gospel which has come to you, just as in all the world...Colossians 1:5-6 (NASB)

Eusebius also recounts the manner in which the gospel was preached throughout the whole world at that time:

Tiberius, therefore, under whom the name of Christ was spread throughout the world, when this doctrine was announced to him from Palestine, where it first began, communicated with the senate, being obviously pleased with the doctrine; but the senate, as they had not proposed the measure, rejected it. But he continued in his opinion, threatening death to the accusers of the Christians; a divine providence infusing this into his mind, that the gospel having freer scope in its commencement, might spread every where over the world."

Thus, then, under a celestial influence and co-operation, the doctrine of the Saviour, like the rays of the sun, quickly irradiated the whole world. Presently, in accordance with divine prophecy, the sound of his inspired evangelists and apostles had gone throughout all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world. Throughout every city and village, like a replenished barn floor, churches were rapidly found abounding, and filled with members from every people. Those who, in consequence of the delusions that had descended to them from their ancestors, had been fettered by the ancient disease of idolatrous superstition, were now liberated, by the power of Christ, through the teaching and miracles of his messengers.

Eusebius Pamphilus, The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus, WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 51-52.

So according to Paul (and Eusebius), the gospel had been preached throughout the entire world at the time Paul's words were written. Why is this significant? Because - according to Matthew - this was the last sign to come before the return of Christ!

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14 (NASB)

Again, the end of what?

For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you 1 Peter 1:20 (NASB)

"Last times" of what?

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18 (NASB)

"Last hour" of what?

not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. Hebrews 10:25 (NASB)

"The day" of what?

The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. 1 Peter 4:7 (NASB)

"The end of all things" of what was near to Peter and the people to whom he wrote this?

If you can honestly answer these questions for yourself, you will no longer see eschatology the same way again.

 

[Stormcrow]

I missed one:

... the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister. Colossians 1:23 (NASB)

 

[Stormcrow]

Christ's second coming was not to rapture the church or establish His heavenly throne in Jerusalem. His second coming was to judge Jerusalem, raise "Daniel's people" (the just and unjust) to judgment, and to take the kingdom of God away from Israel's apostate priesthood (the harlot of Revelation 17) and present it to the Father, who made Christ head over it: His church, symbolized by the New Jerusalem descending from heaven.

We - the members of His church (believing Jews and Gentiles alike) - are the new "royal priesthood" of Christ's kingdom.

Christ "coming in the clouds" is a direct reference to several Old Testament passages that present a picture of God coming on or in clouds whenever He would come in judgment upon a nation and its people. Here are those references:

The oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the LORD is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt; The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence, And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them. Isaiah 19:1 (NASB)

How the Lord has covered the daughter of Zion With a cloud in His anger! He has cast from heaven to earth The glory of Israel, And has not remembered His footstool In the day of His anger. Lamentations 2:1 (NASB)

"In Tehaphnehes the day will be dark When I break there the yoke bars of Egypt. Then the pride of her power will cease in her; A cloud will cover her, And her daughters will go into captivity. "Thus I will execute judgments on Egypt, And they will know that I am the LORD."'" Ezekiel 30:18-19 (NASB)

"You will come from your place out of the remote parts of the north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great assembly and a mighty army; and you will come up against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land. It shall come about in the last days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I am sanctified through you before their eyes, O Gog." Ezekiel 38:15-16 (NASB)

Clouds and thick darkness surround Him; Righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne. Fire goes before Him And burns up His adversaries round about. His lightnings lit up the world; The earth saw and trembled. Psalm 97:2-4 (NASB)

He lays the beams of His upper chambers in the waters; He makes the clouds His chariot; He walks upon the wings of the wind; He makes the winds His messengers, Flaming fire His ministers. Psalm 104:3-4 (NASB)

a wind too strong for this—will come at My command; now I will also pronounce judgments against them. "Behold, he goes up like clouds, And his chariots like the whirlwind; His horses are swifter than eagles. Woe to us, for we are ruined!" Wash your heart from evil, O Jerusalem, That you may be saved. How long will your wicked thoughts Lodge within you? Jeremiah 4:12-14 (NASB)

"For the day is near, Even the day of the LORD is near; It will be a day of clouds, A time of doom for the nations. Ezekiel 30:3 (NASB)

"I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. "And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14 (NASB)

This theme continues through the NT:

"Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory. Mark 13:26 (NASB)

And Jesus said, "I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." Mark 14:62 (NASB)

BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen. Revelation 1:7 (NASB)

When one reads the chapters leading up to the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 21-26), the "big picture" one gets is that of an impending doom for Jerusalem, wherein Christ puts His enemies (the apostate priesthood that opposed and crucified Him) "under His feet" and judges Jerusalem for killing the Son and those the Son sent. All of this is completely consistent with the manner in which God is seen dealing with Israel's apostasy in the Old Testament.

"I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. John 5:30 (NASB)

That verse from John 5:30 is set in the context of the resurrection, and brings us back around to what Daniel saw and recorded in Daniel 12:1-2:

"Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

There is no resurrection without judgment, and the final judgment began with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

 

[rainbows]

Hello stormcrow.

Been reading your post and have extracted the following;

So according to Paul (and Eusebius), the gospel had been preached throughout the entire world at the time Paul's words were written. Why is this significant? Because - according to Matthew - this was the last sign to come before the return of Christ!

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14 (NASB)

Again, the end of what?

This was not entirely true at all, the Gospel had only passed to
one level of generation. There were generations and races that
had not yet heard the Gospel. What about the Eastern realm.
It had been preached to parts of the Roman Empire that is
all. It had gone out into the world, but certainly not to the whole
world.

Whole world must be seen as all tongues and countries, all.
Then the end will come.

Just looking at your questions stormcrow.

 

[rainbows]

Further stormcrow.

Christ's second coming was not to rapture the church or establish His heavenly throne in Jerusalem. His second coming was to judge Jerusalem, raise "Daniel's people" (the just and unjust) to judgment, and to take the kingdom of God away from Israel's apostate priesthood (the harlot of Revelation 17) and present it to the Father, who made Christ head over it: His church, symbolized by the New Jerusalem descending from heaven.

You honestly do not believe that Revelation 17,18 and 19 are referring to Israels
apostate priesthood.

The symbolism is clear and precise in Rev 17,18.

The harlot is responsible for killing the saints.

The harlot is a city sitting on seven hills stormcrow.

She is a queen, greater than a bride, she is the one,
true, bride.

She is clothed in purple and scarlet.

23 and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.

The great men of the earth, deceived by her sorcery.

There is only one organization that I can possibly think
of that regards itself as the true bride. The dress of purple
and scarlet is the clue.

This is not Israel by any means, it is a city, an organization.

Who has been responsible for the blood of the saints?

 

[jasoncran]

Jesus said that he will judge isreal for the blood of all the saints. from able to zecharias.so when jesus said that about the city of jerusalem(the pharissees) he wasnt meaning it?

is "rome" killing the saints of today?

 

[rainbows]

Hello Jasoncran.

I will insert part of your reply below;

Jesus said that he will judge isreal for the blood of all the saints. from able to zecharias.so when jesus said that about the city of jerusalem(the pharissees) he wasnt meaning it?
is "rome" killing the saints of today?

Rome conducted four inquisitions, the last ended approximately 1840.

Inquisitions were primarily designed to deal with heresy.

Heresy according to the RCC is all doctrines contrary to hers.

Many saints died during the inquisitions.

Rome also conducted wars against opposing kingdoms.

Many more saints died during these wars.

I am not so sure that Israel killed many Christians.

Thanks for your reply sir.

 

[jasoncran]

reconcile this for me. im dumb enough read the bible plainly as written.

when jesus said look up for thy redemption draweth nigh and he says when ye shall see the city of jerusalem surrounded by her enemies know that her desolation is about to come?how that not be only what happened in ad 70?

luke 21

19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[reba]

Rome RCC did not murder Jesus.
Dont kill me so fast..

The Jewish leaders manipulated the Roman Government of the day to kill Him .Yet i know He GAVE His life.

Those leaders are/were still responsible for His death...

 

[Stormcrow]

You honestly do not believe that Revelation 17,18 and 19 are referring to Israels apostate priesthood.

Yes, I honestly do and provided the references to substantiate that claim in Elijah's thread called "Repeats??" here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=42491&p=649651&viewfull=1#post649651

 

[Stormcrow]

It had gone out into the world, but certainly not to the whole
world.

The "whole world" as we know it didn't exist when Paul wrote his letters or when Jesus commissioned His disciples. The point is that Jesus said He would return before that generation had passed, and that one of the signs of His return was that the gospel would be preached to the whole world: the whole world that existed at the time of that generation and as the apostles knew it.

Whole world must be seen as all tongues and countries, all.
Then the end will come.

According to both Paul and Eusebius, it was. And unless Christ was mistaken, I'm pretty sure His second coming in judgment upon Jerusalem happened - just as He said it would - before that generation had passed.

 

[Stormcrow]

Rome conducted four inquisitions, the last ended approximately 1840.

The Roman Catholic Church did not exist during the apostolic generation that lived to see the signs of Christ's return. Therefore, if the prophecies regarding His return "before that generation had passed" were all fulfilled - as summarized in the preaching of the gospel to the whole world - then Christ's return in judgment upon Jerusalem happened just as He said it would.

The destruction of Jerusalem, its Temple, and its religion - the Old Covenant kingdom that God had established through Israel for the expressed purpose of ushering in the gospel - is the "end of all things" Peter, and all the apostles, were expecting.

Every apostle who wrote something that ended up in the NT wrote with the expectation of Christ's return during that generation in mind. That conclusion is inescapable when reading the apostles' letters. And it was no less than Christ Himself who led them to believe it.

This issue goes right to the heart of who and what we believe Christ is: a liar or lunatic who misled them, or God incarnate who delivered on His promises to them.

 

[Stormcrow]

The Jewish leaders manipulated the Roman Government of the day to kill Him .Yet i know He GAVE His life.

Those leaders are/were still responsible for His death...

Even if the chief priests had not shouted "Crucify Him! Crucify Him!" they would still be guilty of an act of idolatry most extreme:

"We have no king but Caesar."

Yes, Jesus gave His life willingly but there were those all too willing to take it.

One more thing:

While Jesus gave His life willingly, there is no excuse for the priesthood and Pharisees for killing the apostles He sent to them. And as you and Jason both correctly point out, there is only one city on earth guilty of the blood of both the Old Testament prophets and New Testament apostles.

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! Matthew 23:37-38 (NASB)