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Who Believes We Are In The End Time??

Hello Jasoncrow.

Good to receive a reply.

I will underline the key lines for you.

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

See Jasoncrow, until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled.

The Jews are grafted out, the temple is destroyed, diaspora.

The Jewish Temple was the hub of Jewish belief and life.

It was destroyed, it cannot ever be reconstructed!

The Jews lost the records of the Levitical priesthood,
no priesthood no temple.

Time for the Gentiles to begin, they have been grafted in.

We stand by God's kindness (Grace).
 
jasoncran said:
modern day isreal has no biblical prophecy to it. god didnt gather isreal back to be a secular humanist nation with freedom of religion for all who live there.Nor would he allow gays their to marry or abortion.
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It has all the world to do with it,as that is the generation referred to that would see the things spoken of by Christ in Matt 24

The good and bad figs returned to Israel

Jeremiah 24:2 "One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad."


Jeremiah 24:6 "For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up."

When this has taken place, and both fig baskets have returned to Jerusalem, as well as the events listed in Matthew 24, and Mark 13. These are the events which are the seven seals of Revelation and the seven trumpets that sound their taking place, God is saying that then He will establish them forever. Friend, this has to do with the end times, and our generation is the generation that will live to see it all come to pass. That part of our true brother Judah will always be there, and they will never be moved from that location in the nation of Israel, as well as Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 24:7 "And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart."

This word "heart" in the Hebrew text is "leb ", number 3820 in the Strong's Hebrew Dictionary, "the center of your feelings, the intellect, your mind- heart." You will know in your mind and you feeling and thought will know absolutely that Jesus Christ is the very Son of God.
The entire tribes of both houses will know Jesus Christ as their Lord, and He will be their King and Lord forever. God is going to give all of His people the unction to know the truth when they hear the truth. The book of Hosea tells us of the returning of His people to Him, after the time of separation when God had divorced them. Friend, all of God's people will be for only Him during that time of the Millennium age, and not for the fake that will be removed from us then. God wants you loyalty, and your love toward Him.

The parable of the tares are directly tied to the parable of the fig tree. If you don't understand that parable, it will be almost impossible to understand the parable of the fig tree. That is Christ's words. There is an important reason that Christ cursed the fig tree, it is because when they understand the parable they will see the events come to life from off the pages of His Word. They are the signs of our times that allow our generation to keep from being deceived. It is the bad figs that we have to watch out for, because they are the ones that allow Satan to operate, and succeed in.

Jeremiah 24:8 "And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith the LORD, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt:"

The first seven verses dealt with the future sense, and now we return to the historical aspect. This then is a type of what shall come to pass that we shall see. That is what prophecy is all about, remember what Paul said in I Corinthians 10:11 "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come." They are warnings as to how the end of the world age shall come.

Remember that there were two baskets setting before the temple, and this is addressing the evil figs, which cannot be burned up or consumed. King Zedekiah's name was changed from Mattaniah by king Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon. Zedekiah means "the gift of Yahoveh" and his name was changed to "the justice of God". We see that there is justice in this because God warned him over and over through Jeremiah, and he refused to listen. It is the same in this generation, the people and the rulers are warned over and over what is about to happen, yet they would rather give a deaf ear, and not pay attention. Babylon is coming and it will happen exactly as it is written.

Jeremiah 24:9 "And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them."

When this king of Babylon comes, those that chose to turn away from God's Word and warnings, will be removed and placed into the kingdom of the Antichrist. There will be no kingdoms left on the face of the earth, Why? Because they will all be part of the one world system that controls the entire earth.

So historically that is exactly what happened when the House of Judah was hauled into Babylon, and held in captivity by Nebuchadnezzar's one world system. Then when they were finally released to return to rebuild the city, the walls and streets of Jerusalem, there was a large mixture of these Kenites [Nethinims] with them. Ezra told us that they were the ones that had taken over the priesthood and the duties of the scribes, in the return, and about half of those claiming to be of Judah were actually Kenites.

I Chronicles 2:55 "And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez [Jerusalem]; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchathites. these are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab." These are all part of the group referred to in verse eight as the "residue of Jerusalem".
 
im im not into the theory of the kenites. the jews say that its not about race. one might need to go to the man ramban and read his comments on shemot(exodus). the torah was written in hebrew and the 70 gentile languages. i dont confuse zionism with what the bible says. i listen to the sages when they line up with the word of God which i find often to be the case.
 
jasoncran said:
im im not into the theory of the kenites. the jews say that its not about race. one might need to go to the man ramban and read his comments on shemot(exodus). the torah was written in hebrew and the 70 gentile languages. i dont confuse zionism with what the bible says. i listen to the sages when they line up with the word of God which i find often to be the case.
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I don't feel biblically it's a theory,it's simply the sons of cain....They are the bad figs that returned to Jerusalem,along with the tribe of Judah.....They do the work of their father and call themselves Jew's when they are not....

Not my words,so weather your into it or not it's very much written......
 
and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21:24 (NASB)

The time of the Gentiles here is set in the context of the destruction of Jerusalem: the Roman war and siege of Jerusalem began in 66 AD under Nero with the 12th Legion led by Cestius. It ended in 70 AD with the complete destruction of the city and its Temple by Titus. The duration of the war leading up to the city's destruction was 3.5 years.

Now look at Daniel 12. Daniel had just heard from God that His people would be raised "at the end of the age" (Daniel 12:1-2,13) but in the middle of chapter 12, two angels start talking about when these things would all happen:

And one said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be until the end of these wonders?" I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed. Daniel 12:6-7 (NASB)

The resurrection comes after three and a half years, as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people.

When was the power of the power of the Jews shattered? At the end of the age. And when was that? Three and a half years after the war with Rome began: when Jerusalem was destroyed for the last time under God's judgment.

There is no other view that harmonizes every eschatological verse in the Bible as well as this. Not one.
 
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When this has taken place, and both fig baskets have returned to Jerusalem...
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You completely misread that chapter and, therefore, completely missed the point of it. Read it again:

"Thus says the LORD God of Israel, 'Like these good figs, so I will regard as good the captives of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans. ~'For I will set My eyes on them for good, and I will bring them again to this land; and I will build them up and not overthrow them, and I will plant them and not pluck them up. Jeremiah 24:5-6 (NASB)

Only the "good figs" are returned to Jerusalem because they were the ones removed from it!

'But like the bad figs which cannot be eaten due to rottenness—indeed, thus says the LORD—so I will abandon Zedekiah king of Judah and his officials, and the remnant of Jerusalem who remain in this land and the ones who dwell in the land of Egypt. ~'I will make them a terror and an evil for all the kingdoms of the earth, as a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse in all places where I will scatter them. ~'I will send the sword, the famine and the pestilence upon them until they are destroyed from the land which I gave to them and their forefathers.'" Jeremiah 24:8-10 (NASB)

The "bad figs" - which were left behind in Jerusalem and who fled to Egypt - were destroyed by sword, famine, and pestilence!

The "good figs" were returned by Cyrus of Persia. The "bad figs" were cut off from the land and destroyed.

Because you have completely misread this chapter and have no clue as to the history behind these events, the rest of your post lacks any credibility whatsoever.

"Kenite" theology is about as nonsensical as it gets, just plain crazy, whacked and weird stuff. :nono2
 
Hello stormcrow.

Reading your last post and I noticed this;

The resurrection comes after three and a half years, as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people. When was the power of the power of the Jews shattered? At the end of the age.

I understood the "holy people" to be the saints. Always the children of the promise. Not the stubborn and stiff necked Jews that God would deal with very harshly with.

At the end of the age? There is no way that the end of the age could possibly be AD70.

I have to check how long Titus took to demolish the temple, I have no idea.

Also, I am expecting a visual return of Christ, why?

Read the following;

ACTS 1

9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11 They also said, “ Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.â€


Am I wrong in expecting the visual return of Jesus?
 
Saint:
qadosh, kaw-doshe'; from <H6942> (qadash); sacred (ceremonial or moral); (as noun) God (by eminence), an angel, a saint, a sanctuary :- holy (One), saint. James Strong, Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary, (Austin, TX: WORDsearch Corp., 2007), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "6918".

Saints:
from hagos (an awful thing) [compare <G53> (hagnos), <H2282> (chag)]; sacred (physical pure, moral blameless or religious, ceremony consecrated) :- (most) holy (one, thing), saint. James Strong, Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary, (Austin, TX: WORDsearch Corp., 2007), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "40".

A saint is any person set apart ("sanctified") by God. In the Old Testament, this referred specifically to the children of Israel.

In the New Testament it refers to both Jews and Gentiles sanctified by God. But, as the early church was composed mostly of Jews, the word has a history of use that refers to them. Those to whom it refers in the NT depends on the usage.

Also, I am expecting a visual return of Christ, why?

Read the following;

ACTS 1

9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11 They also said, “ Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

Am I wrong in expecting the visual return of Jesus?
Click to expand...

The answer is provided in the verse you cited:

Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

Were you at the ascension of Christ? Are you one of the Galileans that watched Him ascend? Christ made the promise to His disciples and His enemies, not to us:

Then Jesus said to His disciples (the people who were sitting right there listening to Him)....."the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. "Truly I say to you (His disciples standing right there), there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:24,27-28 (NASB)

Were you among those standing there when Christ spoke these words? If not, why do you think they were meant for you?

He also made this promise to His enemies:

Jesus *said to him (Caiaphas, the High Priest), "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." Matthew 26:64 (NASB)

Were you sitting in judgment upon Christ at His trial as part of the Sanhedrin? If not, why do you take His words as meant for you?
 
At the end of the age? There is no way that the end of the age could possibly be AD70.
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What was the age of dinosaurs and when did it end?
What was the stone age and when did it end?
What was the bronze age and when did it end?
What was the age of Law and when did it end?
What was the iron age and when did it end?
What were the dark ages and when did they end?
What was the Elizabethan age and when did it end?
What was the industrial age and when did it end?
What was the age of innocence and when did it end?
What is the atomic age? Information age? Age of reason?

There are many "ages", the ending of not one of which caused the terrestrial sphere we call "earth" to end in a ball of fire.

To which age was Christ referring and why do you think the end of it is any different?
 
Answer to stormcrow re: BereanBible Preterism link.

I read it half so far and thought about what the author said.

I also quoted from the article since I want to comment
on what was said.

"It just won't fit your paradigm. Let's begin by looking at a verse that shatters(?) the paradigm that views the second coming as the end of the world.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 (NKJV) Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

Now, if the Thessalonians believed that the nature of the second coming was an earth burning, total destruction of the planet, how could they be deceived about its arrival? If the Second coming was a physical earth ending event, as many view it today(?), Paul could have written them and said, "Look out the window, the earth is still here so the Lord has obviously not come." They thought it had already happened, so they must have viewed the NATURE of the second coming differently than most folks view it today.How could this errant belief(?) of an already come parousia have arisen within the church if the apostolic teaching of the second coming were a physical one? Paul doesn't challenge their concept of the nature of the second coming, but rather their timing of it.(?? Timing is not mentioned)

How did we end up with a physical end of the earth view of the second coming in light of the clear Scripture that teaches the Lord would return "soon," in the first century? "

This is one way of looking at 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2, but not the only way
of treating these verses.

The author is under the impression that the thessalonians were stupid.
How could the ressurection have occurred and they still be here.
There timing must have been wrong, not a physical return.

Yes, that is one way of viewing these verses!

We will look at these same verses another way stormcrow!
Much more fully than the author treated them

The Thessalonians had thought that THE DAY of the Lord
had already occurred, not a matter of timing. They had
not been duped,they had not been left behind, because
the return of Christ no one will miss. This the point that is emphasised
by Paul, not the timing, the full blown visual, earth shattering
arrival of God almighty in fire.

Now read the following very carefully, Thessalonians
1 & 2 are marvelous letters for a correct eschatology.

2 Thessalonians 1
7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,

This is the first correction the thessalonians received.
Jesus will return in flaming fire, not secretly. There can
be no misunderstanding here. In flaming fire.

2 Thessalonians 2
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Never again will anyone be deceived into thinking Christ will
return any other way than in full color panoramic hd. All will see
the event. God also judges when He returns, this is what Paul
states.

If you want another scripture reference on the physical
return;

Acts 1
9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11 They also said, “ Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.â€

It is a visual return, the same as the ascent.

These verses are written for all Christians.

Jesus Christ will return the way it is described in Thessalonians.

There is no way that the Thessalonians will miss it or be left behind.

No way the return will be spiritual, it is visual.

This is parallel to 2 Thessalonians.

That is what the scripture says.
 
One more thing...

I'm not going to argue these matters ad nauseum. You asked questions. I answered them as I had the time and energy to do so. I'm not here to convince you of anything and I'm not interested in arguing this further. I've laid out the facts as I see them. Do with them as you will.
 
You have been very helpful stormcrow and I do appreciate
the effort you have contributed. Under trying conditions.

I must say I do understand the preterist position a whole
lot more than I originally did.

No doubt some viewers have also gained in their comprehension
of this particular view point in eschatology.

Thanks stormcrow.
 
Stormcrow said:
Saint



The answer is provided in the verse you cited:

Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.â€
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Storm,

You're putting emphasis on words YOU think are correct to explain the context. That doesn't mean that's how it should be read. We could pick any verse from the Bible and do the same thing, it doesn't mean it's correct though.

Bold, italics, bigger fonts don't mean it's correct - just saying
 
Lloyd said:
Storm,

You're putting emphasis on words YOU think are correct to explain the context. That doesn't mean that's how it should be read. We could pick any verse from the Bible and do the same thing, it doesn't mean it's correct though.

Bold, italics, bigger fonts don't mean it's correct - just saying
Click to expand...

Who were the angels addressing, Lloyd? Were they addressing the "men of Galilee" who were standing right there in front of them, or were they addressing you, someone living 2,000 years later?

Are you a man of Galilee?
 
savedbygrace57 said:
I do, perhaps the generation that shall be alive when He comes !
Click to expand...

We see this above alike it seems. The only thing that I see needing to be fullfilled is the Matt. 24:14 'True Gospel into the whole world and then the END SHALL COME', the second time repeat of Eccl. 3:15's requirement. And that will be done by just the same few as started the woek up of Acts.

Persecution + outpouring of the Holy Spirit & our last day knowledge that God has given for that very thing. Just think of what was done then even with no satalite,(;)) huh? And when persecution comes the church becomes pure because it costs something!

--Elijah
 
Hey stormcrow.

You means YOU, generation means This generation, etc.

Care to examine the following verses and explain.

Deuteronomy 18:14-22

14 For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so.
15 “ The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen, you shall listen to him.

16 This is according to all that you asked of the Lord your God in Horeb on the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, or I will die.’

17 The Lord said to me, ‘They have spoken well.

18 I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.

Hmmmm.
 
Stormcrow said:
Who were the angels addressing, Lloyd? Were they addressing the "men of Galilee" who were standing right there in front of them, or were they addressing you, someone living 2,000 years later?

Are you a man of Galilee?
Click to expand...

Storm,

That's such a stretch. I guess we (as in the 2000 years later brigade) should just disregard all of Jesus' words since he wasn't addressing us directly?
 
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rainbows said:
Hey stormcrow.

You means YOU, generation means This generation, etc.

Care to examine the following verses and explain.

Deuteronomy 18:14-22

14 For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so.
15 “ The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen, you shall listen to him.

16 This is according to all that you asked of the Lord your God in Horeb on the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, or I will die.’

17 The Lord said to me, ‘They have spoken well.

18 I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.

Hmmmm.
Click to expand...

What point are you trying to make here?:chin
 
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