Actually, I always like to look at both sides of a controversial doctrine and then prayerfully seek Gods truth through His scriptures. Commentaries are secondary.
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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
WHO IS THE RULER OF THE EARTH?
- Thread starter GodsGrace
- Start date
Dorothy Mae
Member
Of course God has to speaking in the first place in order to bring to remembrance.
In my experience whether a person has received teaching from the Holy Spirit depends entirely upon their character. It isn’t a blanket promise to the stubborn and compliant equally.
What did Jesus say? “If you keep my teaching the Father will love you. And we will come to you and dwell in you.” This is a conditional promise.
It works like this: God wants to give a believer understanding that matches truth. So he presents this in a small bit through people.
But it comes through people or in a way the person doesn’t like or people they don’t like. The test is will they live truth enough to humble themselves to receive even if from, say, a “donkey.” (How embarrassing.) Too often They insist God show them truth in a way that preserves their pride, preferably alone.
But the pride is the one thing that MUST be broken in order to receive understanding. So what happens is pride is strengthened and what they did understand is taken away. So no, the Holy Spirit was unable to teach them or lead them into truth.
Maybe the Enemy was allowed to take away some understanding as they operated on his turf, pride. He then is controlling as the OP asks.
So no, obviously the Holy Spirit is not teaching or leading everyone. The reason is a lack of loving the truth. The truth is expensive.
That is an excellent exposition, if you don't mind me saying.
PS. I have kept it for my notes, I hope you don't mind. (You would make an excellent commentator.)
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Dorothy Mae
Member
You are sweet, thank you. One of the nicest things anyone ever said to me outside of my children.
First I would like to address John 14:26
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
The full context is found starting with John 14:15 continuing through vs. 31 about Jesus promising to send down the Holy Spirit to indwell us and help teach us all Spiritual truths as the Holy Spirit opens our Spiritual eyes and ears to hear what Jesus taught. Jesus taught verbally while here on each, but after He ascended up to the Father
(I don't want to make this about the Trinity so those who are reading this start your own thread on the Trinity and do not derail this one, thank you.)
The Holy Spirit is our comforter sent down by God that will abide with us forever as He is the Spirit of truth (Father Son and Holy Spirit all being God's Spirit). We who are Spiritually born again from above are indwelled with the Holy Spirit that is God's Spirit within us, Christ who is within us as His word abides in us.
We see Christ (not visibly) through the Holy Spirit being the very Spirit of God as Jesus being the very Spirit of God being the word made flesh, John 1:14. The Holy Spirit gives us understanding of what Jesus taught just like the day of Pentecost when the disciples were indwelled with the Holy Spirit as then their Spiritual eyes and ears were opened as they started to understand all that Jesus taught them.
The carnal mind can not perceive the Spiritual things of God and this is how Satan can enter the mind and will twist the word of God as Satan is the Father of lies.
1John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Vs. 27 is that anointing of the Holy Spirit that opens our Spiritual eyes and ears to understand that which has already been spoken by Jesus as the Apostles bear witness in their writings of what Jesus taught. If we are only leaning on what man teaches, especially in the hand me down traditional teachings that do not line up with the full context of scripture, then we can lose sight of that which Jesus already taught. That is why there are so many different teachings as many rely on man's theologies and doctrines to teach them, but do not study the scriptures for themselves for what has already been written as they do not Spiritually discern what they are being taught, 1 John 4:1-6.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Beware of teachings that take metaphors suitable 2000 years ago and make a whole doctrine out it them.
Exactly, The Holy Spirit does not teach us new things, but only that of what Jesus has already taught.
Dorothy Mae
Member
What about understanding that is new to you?
2nd Timothy Group
Member
Dorothy Mae
Member
When the Kingdom of God meets the Kingdom of darkness, only one side is jeering.Lol . . . your sense of humor is staggering.
2nd Timothy Group
Member
I take it that you represent the Kingdom of God, and I represent the kingdom of darkness . . . right?
Dorothy Mae
Member
No, but at all. But it would be better for if you did not let yourself comfort yourself by laughing AT others. This is a tactic the enemy uses. It would be better if you didn’t take up his weapons of attack. I’m thinking of your well-being. Those who have undergone Christ’s circumcising don’t jeer at others.
Dorothy Mae
Member
How do you classify theology that came along (to them anyway) in 1517, to be exact? That’s pretty close to you 1500AD, a year that you’ve designated as being adverse to if new theology is introduced.
2nd Timothy Group
Member
Actually, I am refrained from being angry and irritated by your sense of rationality. Your harsh words don't bother me at all, so I think that you're a bit confused.
I hope you feel better soon!
Dorothy Mae
Member
Those words aren’t harsh any more than Jesus’ words were. You are struggling not being angry because it affronts your pride, perhaps.
Also, I’m direct and Americans don’t like direct truthful speech. It’s rude to them. I’m afraid they wouldn’t like any NT preaching if they heard it because they were very direct.
This is a personal attack which shows your pride is affronted and you’re angry. If you insist on using the enemy’s weapons, he will have something in you. But what can I do? He will indeed be a ruler over you in some areas as you do as he desires. I would counsel you to reconsider.
2nd Timothy Group
Member
Part One
Hello Wondering,
It is an honor to answer your questions. I hope you find them as remarkable as I do.
What is the Circumcision of Christ? Well, I’ll start by saying that the translations I will offer as I relay Scripture to you will be varied as I will use the most easy-to-understand translations. Once you see these passages as I present them to you, you are encouraged to go to your favorite translation and see if it is essentially the same. And I’m sure that you will discover such a finding, as I effectively use about 15 different translations (from the Blue Letter Bible website). I am currently using a hard copy of the incredible Jewish Tanakh for Old Testament Scripture).
Next, I would say that Spiritual Circumcision is the Purpose of Christ, and of course, it is also one of his four essential “Works,” thus, we have the Work of Christ, and last, Spiritual Circumcision produces an Effect, hence the Effect of Christ. And this is the foundation of what the actual, True Gospel is . . . the Gospel focuses on the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effect of Christ. We should all know how to answer those three questions at a whim, for when we can, we can then say that we understand the Gospel.
The Purpose of Christ is to Redeem His Children from the Curse of the Lord that placed the Sinful Nature upon us. From the moment that the Lord applied this Spiritual Curse, it applied to all of creation. All people would be under this Curse, and the only way to be relieved of it is through the Circumcision of Christ. This is the simple process of lifting the Curse that His Father applied thousands of years ago. Yes, there are other reasons for His arrival to earth, but this is the primary Purpose: to Redeem all whom the Father had given Him.
The Work of Christ is as follows:
1. Jesus Circumcises the unregenerate heart of the Sinful Nature so that it is no longer held captive to do the Devil’s will.
2. Jesus grants Repentance so that a person can not only Turn from his sin but make a real behavior change.
3. Jesus sends the gift of the Holy Spirit as a security deposit and a teacher, leader, and guide, not to mention an intermediary.
4. Jesus paid the cost to Redeem us from the Curse that came directly from God but because of the actions of Adam and Eve. We are made right with God by believing in the Power that raised Him from the dead and placing granted Faith in Jesus.
The Effect of Christ is the direct result of being released from the Devil’s captivity so that we would do the Will of the Lord! Once Jesus sets a person free from the Adamic Curse, they are capable of responding, and they will. Below, we find written text that tells us about this process; amazingly, it comes from the Old Testament. Here it is . . .
Ezekiel 36:25-27 NLT - "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. Your filth will be washed away, and you will no longer worship idols. And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. And I will put my Spirit in you so that you will follow my decrees and be careful to obey my regulations.”
Wouldn’t it be nice if our pastors mentioned this incredible verse now and then? And how about Deuteronomy 30:6?
KJV – “And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.”
Wow, well, there we go. It says above that God Circumcises the heart with the effect of “life.” If Spiritual Circumcision were not an option, neither would be Eternal Life.” So, we can see how Spiritual Circumcision is necessary for Eternal Life. And what Rom 2:29?
Romans 2:29 NLT – “No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people.”
What makes a Jew a True Jew? Yes, a changed heart. And what is “True Circumcision”? That’s right; it deals specifically with the Heart. And who produces this Circumcision? The Holy Spirit. But what about Colossians 2:9-15? This is the Grand Daddy of them all . . . it is unbelievable.
Colossians 2:9-15 NLT – “For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross.”
2nd Timothy Group
Member
Part Two
First, did you notice that the Trinity takes responsibility for Spiritual Circumcision? In Deut 30:6, it says God will Circumcise the human heart. Rom 2:29 states that the Spirit produces this work, and Col 2:9-15 indicates that it is Christ whom Circumcises hearts. God, the Spirit, and Jesus all Spiritually Circumcise hearts. That, my friend . . . is incredible. If the Trinity takes responsibility for Circumcising hearts, we’d stand up and pay hardcore attention. This is serious, serious business.
This is only the beginning, for the entire Bible revolves around this principle. And incredibly, the most Holy Word, “Circumcise,” is what causes people to stumble, for those who still possess their Sinful Nature to continue to live in their shame. Do you recall how Adam covered himself out of shame? That’s right . . . he saw his uncircumcised self and was ashamed. This concept appears many times in the Old Testament and can be identified by searching for “skirts” and how “shame” is always related (as in, it is shameful to look up another’s skirt). So those who remain under this Curse will, by default, be ashamed and offended by it and refuse to accept the concept and principle. Yet, the Bible is so clear that a seven-year-old could easily comprehend it.
“Once Hebrews were circumcised to belong to the tribe.”
Yes, God told Abraham that if anyone refused physical Circumcision, they were to be cut off from the Covenant Family, the Family of Circumcision.
Genesis 17:14 NLT – “Any male who fails to be circumcised will be cut off from the covenant family for breaking the covenant."
Physical Circumcision was the Lord-implemented way of a person indicating that they received the Circumcision of Christ. I don’t know if any of the Saints were aware of this, but this is, in fact, what physical circumcision reflects . . . it is the outward expression of Faith. Sound familiar? After Christ, water Baptism replaced physical circumcision, as Baptism was all-inclusive, whether male, female, Greek, Jew, slave or free. Incredibly, the Jews actually taught and believed that their physical circumcision procured Holy Salvation. They were wrong.
Acts 15:1, 5 NLT - 1 “While Paul and Barnabas were at Antioch of Syria, some men from Judea arrived and began to teach the believers: "Unless you are circumcised as required by the law of Moses, you cannot be saved." ... 5 “But then some of the believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and insisted, "The Gentile converts must be circumcised and required to follow the law of Moses."
“Do you believe we retain the sin nature but have dominance over it?”
I think you now clearly see and know the answer from the Scripture above. God, be Him God the Father, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit, the Sinful Nature is to be Circumcised from the unregenerate hearts of the Elect. Like the foreskin of a man’s phallus, the foreskin is cut away and permanently discarded. A clear and distinct change has been made, and particularly in their day, this was an utterly irreversible “operation.” Further, what man, after having been physically circumcised, wished that he could go back to his previous state? Right . . . to desire uncircumcision after having received circumcision would be a rather odd thing to do. Likewise, when the Sinful Nature is cut away and removed, it would be insane for the new Believer to want to return to what they once were.
Suppose the Sinful Nature is only to be tolerated, or perhaps dominated, as you suggested. In that case, it flies entirely against the many Scriptures that clearly show what Spiritual Circumcision is all about. Unfortunately, preachers and teachers of today do not discuss this all-important matter. Thus, few have likely ever heard of these incredible passages offered above.
“Or do you believe we lose the sin nature?”
Yes, the removal and release from the Adamic Curse, which includes that incorporated Sinful Nature, is the Purpose of Christ. How Christ has been performing this action since at least Able, the very first prophet, is the primary element of His Holy Work.
Wondering, there is so much more to back up this position, for once a person’s eyes have been opened, this will become more and more apparent.
2nd Timothy Group
Member
Lol . . . are you a psychologist and can thus analyze me? You're so funny.
I'm sorry, Dorothy, but the things that you've stated about Circumcision are completely and totally false. Do you see me going off on you as you have gone off on me?
On the contrary. Since I arrived a couple days ago, I have been EXTREMELY friendly with you. For some reason, being friendly isn't really your "thing" I guess. So yes, I hope you feel better soon!
Well, that's one way to judge my heart. You're more than welcome to keep on judging. It's totally ok with me.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Ambassador Hat On...
D,
Please do not break TOS rules.
Please reply to the topic and not to the member in a personal way.
You cannot know what a person has in their mind or heart.
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