WHO IS THE RULER OF THE EARTH?

[GodsGrace]

I believe this is inline with this thread showing how satan is the god of this world.

All unbelievers are children of satan according to the following verses, which would make satan ruler/god of this world.



John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Matthew 13:38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

Act 13:10 and said, “You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord?

1 John 3:12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.



Just some thoughts.

Grace and peace to you.

The above shows how satan is followed by many.
But does this make him the ruler?

See posts 16 and 19.
I think they explain it well.

 

[Cooper]

Hi Cooper

You said:

God reigns supreme. He cursed the earth (Adam), He uses nature as appropriate allowing the Israelites to cross the river for example, and plagues etc. as punishment. One day the curse will be lifted when lion and lamb will lay down side by side. Just don't be thinking every bad thing that happens is God's punishment, it isn't. Hold in your mind that God loves his own and will keep and protect us as his precious children, and because the laws of nature are always in place and ongoing there will always be ice on the road causing accidents and earthquakes under the sea and on land with disastrous results, and that is how it has always been since before Adam and the curse.

I agree that God uses nature.
I agree that He is King of the Universe.
But there are too many verses that state that satan in the god of this world.

BTW, I don't think that every bad thing that happens is God's punishment.
I've never stated that and never will because I don't believe it.

Of course God ALLOWS satan to be the god of this world,
but it does seem to me that Adam let evil into everything, including satan.
Before everything was Good because God created everything good...
now we deal with satanic pressures....the prince of the air.

Satan is the god of this world because most people worship and follow the money and this world's pleasures and goods without a thought for church, or anything spiritual. Revelation even mentions the temple of satan.

Jesus is love and mirrors his Heavenly Father, so all is good. We bring most of our troubles on ourself.

You are right.
.

 

[for_his_glory]

The problem with this view is Rev 13 comes after the trumpets where you already said is when Jesus is proclaimed King which in your view, has not yet happened. So how come after Jesus is proclaimed King, the 3.5 year reign of the evil man who kills a number of believers happens in full force right under Jesus' ruling? All of what you call the Great Tribulation happens after Jesus is proclaimed King. Do you see that this is problem? It is not a problem in my view as I believe Jesus is already the King and Satan has very limited power, mostly to deceive men.

Except that you said Jesus is proclaimed King ("the kingdoms of this world HAVE BECOME the kingdom of our Lord") BEFORE all of that. So Satan ruling through the beast, in your view, is happening after Jesus returns and is King. That is the order in the scripture. Chapter 11 he is King with succeeding chapters the Great Tribulation happens under his Kingship, in your eschatology.

This is not off subject as I believe Jesus is King and Satan has lost his authority. He can deceive and still does. But the authority is no longer his. He can no longer offer anyone the world as he did Jesus. He doesn't own the world anymore. He can offer a bit of fame to some and has done so. He was the angel with musical talent and he gives that to those who are willing to worship him giving him their lives. We can see that in the music industry which is firmly under his control now as the stars are his, many of them. (He has also invaded the Christian music scene which is another subject.)

You are misunderstanding what I said about the timing of the kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdoms of our Lord as this happens during the seventh trumpet sounding and then after the 3 1/2 year reign of the son of perdition who takes his seat in Jerusalem causing all to take the mark of this beast. At the end of the 3 1/2 years then will Christ return and take back the nations/kingdoms back to Himself as God will then make all His enemies His footstall as He will reign for all eternity.

The problem I have is that Preterist see all of this has already happen during the destruction of the Temple an Jerusalem in 70AD. You have every right to believe how they teach this, but I can nor will ever agree with that.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

If you would notice in reading about the first six trumpets that begin in Rev 8:6 after the seventh seal is opened they come one right after the other, but each one has an ending point. When you read about the first sounding of the seventh trumpet it has no ending as it takes us in our study starting in Rev 11:15 clear through Rev 19:11-21 when Christ returns and destroys the beast and his false prophet (son of perdition) and the remnant that followed after the beast, then at that time the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of the Lord and of His Christ as God makes all His enemies the footstool of Christ and He will then rule the nations forever.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You are misunderstanding what I said about the timing of the kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdoms of our Lord as this happens during the seventh trumpet sounding and then after the 3 1/2 year reign of the son of perdition who takes his seat in Jerusalem causing all to take the mark of this beast. At the end of the 3 1/2 years then will Christ return and take back the nations/kingdoms back to Himself as God will then make all His enemies His footstall as He will reign for all eternity.

The problem I have is that Preterist see all of this has already happen during the destruction of the Temple an Jerusalem in 70AD. You have every right to believe how they teach this, but I can nor will ever agree with that.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

If you would notice in reading about the first six trumpets that begin in Rev 8:6 after the seventh seal is opened they come one right after the other, but each one has an ending point. When you read about the first sounding of the seventh trumpet it has no ending as it takes us in our study starting in Rev 11:15 clear through Rev 19:11-21 when Christ returns and destroys the beast and his false prophet (son of perdition) and the remnant that followed after the beast, then at that time the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of the Lord and of His Christ as God makes all His enemies the footstool of Christ and He will then rule the nations forever.

The scripture you quoted says “the Kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord.” The 3.5 years comes AFTER that as well as the Trubulation described in the chapters following that declaration. You can change the order of the chapters to suit your theology but that’s what you’re doing. I know the order of events you espouse. They require changing the order descriped in the Revelation. That’s a fact.

Now Rev 19 described a judgement of God on the land. This is 8 chapters AFTER Jesus has been declared King with a great deal of suffering in between.

The problem I have with your view is that Jesus isn’t King and you have to completely change when this happens to fit your position.

 

[electedbyHim]

The above shows how satan is followed by many.
But does this make him the ruler?

See posts 16 and 19.
I think they explain it well.

That all depends on ones theology. I believe that satan and his demons influence (rule?) unbelievers and keep them blind. I also believe the demon-possessed are ruled by satan's demons.

Ultimately it is the Lord who orchestrates everything to its end for His purpose and glory.

I know that I do not attribute any of my sin to satan, but to my fallen flesh. I think to many Christians blame satan for their sins to avoid personal responsibility. But hey, Oh wretched man that I am.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

-And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Hi Dorothy,

The above Scripture from Colossians chapter 2 is specific to each person who received the Circumcision of Christ. This is the context of Colossians 2:9-15, the seven more important verses in the entire Bible.

Jesus gives us another example of what this "looks" like:

Luke 10:17-19 NKJV - "Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name." And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. "Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you."

True Believers, marked by Spiritual Circumcision, are protected by Jesus, for they have been Redeemed of the Curse of the Lord. And this is why they do not belong to this world, a corrupt, evil world led by Satan.

John 15:19 NIV - "If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."

If this world belonged to Christ, we would belong to the world. But instead, the world belongs to Satan, thus we need to be removed . . . somehow.

Enjoy your day!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi Dorothy,

The above Scripture from Colossians chapter 2 is specific to each person who received the Circumcision of Christ. This is the context of Colossians 2:9-15, the seven more important verses in the entire Bible.

Jesus gives us another example of what this "looks" like:

Luke 10:17-19 NKJV - "Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name." And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. "Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you."

True Believers, marked by Spiritual Circumcision, are protected by Jesus, for they have been Redeemed of the Curse of the Lord. And this is why they do not belong to this world, a corrupt, evil world led by Satan.

John 15:19 NIV - "If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."

If this world belonged to Christ, we would belong to the world. But instead, the world belongs to Satan, thus we need to be removed . . . somehow.

Enjoy your day!

“you are complete in Him, who is the lhead of all 7principality and power”

All principality and power is public which the verse I quoted says. It is not private, but public and says so.

Moreover, it’s not specific but plural. The “you” is a group, not private.

Now, there are a few posters here who suffer major health issues. If they were protected by Jesus as you claim, they wouldn’t suffer. There would never be requests for prayer or prayer lines or needs at all. So your theory doesn’t match real life.

Jesus said we are to be in the world but not of it. I didn’t say the world belongs to Christ. I said the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord. Charles is king of England but it doesn’t belong to him. Kingship is not ownership.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

So your theory doesn’t match real life.

Ok, thank you. Your "take" on what I wrote is rather interesting. :D

Have a great day!

 

[for_his_glory]

True, Satan only has power over those who give him power over their lives and minds, those who walk in disobedience to God's commands. I do not think believers are excluded but it depends upon how much we cooperate in being disobedient or obedient to God's commands. There are believers, and not a few, in whom the Enemy has a hold and they do as he entices them to do and gains thereby more ground.

Now certainly Satan tempted Adam and Eve and thereby gained the authority that they had been given in the world. So sin entered the world and Satan had power over the world...until Jesus came and defeated him. Since the time of Christ, the love of God has been being shed abroad in the world changing man and nations. They are not believers, and that is not what I am saying, but one by one, nations are turning to peace and justice and freedom as values. These are things God values as he said we will turn our weapons of war (swords) into means of feeding others (ploughshares.)

In centuries past, probably since Nimrod, nations haven praised and lauded war and fighting to gain material or power. It was a point of pride. The powerful did as they wished. But since Christ and even now, we see that the world feels very differently about war and fighting and doing horrible things to other people to gain material or power. A few centuries ago, nations blithely went to war when one acted up and we saw this in the two world wars. Now we have one rogue nation starting a war and they nations are trying desperately to avoid war. This was not known in the history of the whole world. We condemn the nation who started the conflict. We call their deeds "war crimes," a term not even thought of centuries ago. We hate fighting and killing and brutality, by and large, as nations.

Those who are Spiritually born again from above and indwelled with the Holy Spirit have by Gods grace been given power and authority over Satan, but yet he will always try to buffet those who are Christ own as he is the prince of the power of the air and the god of this world that rules his evil throughout the world working through others that are not God's own in order to try and steal our faith. We have already given scripture that proves Satan is the god in this world.

Nothing has changed in this world as it will continue to wax worse, 2 Timothy 3:13, as we have always had wars beginning with the first war found in Genesis 14:1-24 with Shinar, Ellasar and Elam became known later in scripture as being Babylon. During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times.

Wars also include civil wars in many countries, even today. The enemies of God will always walk in the lust of the flesh as the works of Satan are fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry, anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. It's Satan that deceives the mind and rules over those who are not God's own.

There will always be wars of greed and world domination even up to the time of the final battle of Armageddon with Gog and Magog as Satan leads the nations into battle being the god of the ruling powers that be here on earth. We are overcomers in Christ and all Satan has as power over us is that he can kill the flesh, but is not able to kill the soul, Matthew 10:28.

Many want to live in peace, Christian and non-Christian, but that is not going to happen unless one has the peace of Christ within them to endure all that will/is happening in this world, especially after the New World Order comes to full fruition.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Ok, thank you. Your "take" on what I wrote is rather interesting. :biggrin

Have a great day!

Well, I work in science and I’m trained to apply theory to real life. I once believed christian’s were protected in Jesus until major crises or two hit my life and I saw that theology as not matching real life and dropped it. My view now matches real life and is much stronger.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Those who are Spiritually born again from above and indwelled with the Holy Spirit have by Gods grace been given power and authority over Satan, but yet he will always try to buffet those who are Christ own as he is the prince of the power of the air and the god of this world that rules his evil throughout the world working through others that are not God's own in order to try and steal our faith.

True but he steals more than faith.

We have already given scripture that proves Satan is the god in this world.

And I’ve given you scriptures that say that Jesus, not Satan, has been given all power and authority and actually we can rule and reign with him.

Nothing has changed in this world as it will continue to wax worse, 2 Timothy 3:13, as we have always had wars beginning with the first war found in Genesis 14:1-24 with Shinar, Ellasar and Elam became known later in scripture as being Babylon.

Ah contrar! The world has radically changed since Jesus’ day. Even in our lifetime markers of quality of life have gone up. Poverty and infant mortality are down. Education is up. Ruthless dictators are fewer in the world. People are living longer and better. And the christian church is growing at a phenomenal rate. The west is going downhill, true.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times.

Never like in 70 AD and Mosaic covenant ended with the destruction of the temple and the change of the priesthood. That temple will never be rebuilt. There is a seal on the spot preventing it.

Wars also include civil wars in many countries, even today. The enemies of God will always walk in the lust of the flesh as the works of Satan are fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry, anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. It's Satan that deceives the mind and rules over those who are not God's own.

You’d be surprised how many christians walk in those lusts.

There will always be wars of greed and world domination even up to the time of the final battle of Armageddon with Gog and Magog as Satan leads the nations into battle being the god of the ruling powers that be here on earth. We are overcomers in Christ and all Satan has as power over us is that he can kill the flesh, but is not able to kill the soul, Matthew 10:28.

That’s your eschatology for sure. I understand it quite well. I don’t believe it.

Many want to live in peace, Christian and non-Christian, but that is not going to happen unless one has the peace of Christ within them to endure all that will/is happening in this world, especially after the New World Order comes to full fruition.

The true peace of Christ I whole heartedly agree with. The NWO is certainly evil and evil will come from it. From observation of the last few years, I think many believers will cooperate. The governments know how to market the right mandates. So there is cause for alarm. But I don’t believe the “times of Jacob’s trouble” or “ “days of great tribulation” are coming. But that’s just my view.

 

[for_his_glory]

A word on Job. Satan demanded to have Job and had to do so because Job was the most righteous man on earth. Satan did not otherwise have a handle on that man and so had to ask permission. Satan has to get permission to touch us but we can give him permission, this does not require God doing so. And, more importantly, Satan does not have to go to God to get to us. We can do that ourselves or parents can do this for their children. How is permission given? By obeying Satan and rebelling against the teachings of Christ.

So if you think God is protecting you from Satan, you are wrong unless your life is such that God can describe you as he described Job. We often have opened the doors to him in our lives and so unlike Jesus and Job, he has something on us, a legal entry that we gave him by our disobedience. We are given weapons of warfare, the protection of which we are responsible for. The righteousness of Christ is appropriated but only one piece of protection. It is not automatic, which we can see from observation. Our lives are not free of the enemy's attacks.

Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Satan wasn't asking permission to try and prove his point about Job losing everything and would curse God, but that all Job/us has is in Satan's own power to take away trying to steal Job's/our faith. Satan can take away from us, but God will always give back abundantly to those who walk in faith and obedience to His commands.

Satan will always try to steal our faith by taking whatever he can away from us who are God's own as well I know by experience, but he could never take my faith away.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Satan wasn't asking permission to try and prove his point about Job losing everything and would curse God, but that all Job/us has is in Satan's own power to take away trying to steal Job's/our faith.

If all Job (or we) have is in Satan's own power, why did he need permission to take it?

Satan can take away from us, but God will always give back abundantly to those who walk in faith and obedience to His commands.

That is a complicated one. If Satan can take away from us anything he wants, we would all be dead or poor. He would take away everything we have. That is in his interest. But the truth is that he cannot. He can try, for example, to get men to kill Jesus as a baby, but God out foxed him. He could not kill Jesus himself although he certainly would have liked to do so. So Satan is limited and always was.

Satan will always try to steal our faith by taking whatever he can away from us who are God's own as well I know by experience, but he could never take my faith away.

He steals whatever he can, not just faith. He steals lives too if he can. He steals joy. He steals love between people. The list is long of what he steals if he can. But I am glad that your faith is strong.

 

[for_his_glory]

Satan is the god of this world because most people worship and follow the money and this world's pleasures and goods without a thought for church, or anything spiritual. Revelation even mentions the temple of satan.

Jesus is love and mirrors his Heavenly Father, so all is good. We bring most of our troubles on ourself.

You are right.
.

Many have made Satan their god over this world, over their lives like you have mentioned the temple of Satan. There are those like Anton LaVey who founded the Church of Satan, the Satanic Bible and the religion of Satanism who worship the god of this world.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

2Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

This present heaven and earth will pass away and Satan will never be allowed to rule over the nations again as being an evil god over this world.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

We can see how it is Satan that goes about weaking the nations as being the god over these nations until the time when Christ returns and then these nations will become the nations of our Lord and Christ Jesus as God makes the enemy a footstool under Jesus feet as He will then rule the nations as He causes this present heaven and earth to pass away and will make all things new again.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Satan is wandering around looking for someone to devour. Obviously who he is allowed to devour is not his free choice otherwise he wouldn’t wander around searching.

 

[for_his_glory]

If all Job (or we) have is in Satan's own power, why did he need permission to take it?

Where does it say in that verse that he had to ask God for permission? Satan is allowed to test us without asking permission to do so in his own power. Satan has always had the power to kill, steal and destroy after his heart became prideful and wanted all that is God's. This is why God kicked him out of the garden of Eden before the creation of man, but has no power over a child of God's soul.

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Millions have already died a martyr's death by the hands that Satan works through from the beginning when Cain killed his brother Abel up to the last one who will die a martyr's death for not receiving the mark of the beast in the end of days.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Where does it say in that verse that he had to ask God for permission?

Read the account. Satan complained Job was only faithful because he was protected. God “gave Satan permission” to touch his stuff but NOT his body. What is that if not LIMITED PERMISSION? Later he came back to get more permission. How can you not see that!

Satan is allowed to test us without asking permission to do so in his own power.

Scripture please.

Satan has always had the power to kill, steal and destroy after his heart became prideful and wanted all that is God's.

Why did he need Herod to try to kill Jesus then? Why not kill
Paul and Peter and Jesus outright?

This is why God kicked him out of the garden of Eden before the creation of man, but has no power over a child of God's soul.

That’s not why. He says he wanted to be like God, not that he started killing and stealing.

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

God giving permission with limits. How can you not see that?

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

That’s men. The apostles didn’t fear death at the hands of man. Jesus same.

Millions have already died a martyr's death by the hands that Satan works through from the beginning when Cain killed his brother Abel up to the last one who will die a martyr's death for not receiving the mark of the beast in the end of days.

Notice man is killing, not Satan. But you know I think that’s past. I don’t fear that.

 

[Cooper]

Many have made Satan their god over this world, over their lives like you have mentioned the temple of Satan. There are those like Anton LaVey who founded the Church of Satan, the Satanic Bible and the religion of Satanism who worship the god of this world.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

2Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

This present heaven and earth will pass away and Satan will never be allowed to rule over the nations again as being an evil god over this world.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

We can see how it is Satan that goes about weaking the nations as being the god over these nations until the time when Christ returns and then these nations will become the nations of our Lord and Christ Jesus as God makes the enemy a footstool under Jesus feet as He will then rule the nations as He causes this present heaven and earth to pass away and will make all things new again.

Amen.

 

[Cooper]

Read the account. Satan complained Job was only faithful because he was protected. God “gave Satan permission” to touch his stuff but NOT his body. What is that if not LIMITED PERMISSION? Later he came back to get more permission. How can you not see that!

Scripture please.

Why did he need Herod to try to kill Jesus then? Why not kill
Paul and Peter and Jesus outright?

That’s not why. He says he wanted to be like God, not that he started killing and stealing.

God giving permission with limits. How can you not see that?

That’s men. The apostles didn’t fear death at the hands of man. Jesus same.

Notice man is killing, not Satan. But you know I think that’s past. I don’t fear that

Matthew 10:28 - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Matthew 10:28 - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

.

What do you think this says?