WHO IS THE RULER OF THE EARTH?

[jasonc]

Sokar,lol.

I just thought about this important verse.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

It's not until the sounding of the seventh trumpet that the world will become God's once more for ever and ever. This shows that for now Satan is the ruling/god power over the world.

He allows Satan to do things.
See job

 

[for_his_glory]

What is interesting is in Revelation the Devil was given power over the believers to defeat them for 3.5 years. That was a terrible time for believers where hundreds were killed. But it only lasted a short time. What is interesting is that the Devil was given power to do this. He did not take it nor initiate that. If the world is in his power, he would not have to be given it and only for a limited time. This also show that he is no longer the spiritual power controlling the world.

People give themselves to him and so they are in his power, true. If that is "the world" then it could be said to be so. They submit to him and so he has power over them. Even then, if they repent, that power can be broken.

The 3 1/2 year reign of the son of perdition in the end of days being the beast out of the earth causing all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death for not denouncing Jesus as their Lord and Savior has not happened yet. Rev 13.

But, I will say that it is Satan that rules through the beast out of the sea who gives power to the beast out of the earth that claims he is God and at the end of his reign then will Christ return and the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of Christ as God has made His enemies His footstool.

 

[for_his_glory]

Agreed.
I just want to say that every Christian believes God is sovereign.
I don't know what I am.
Maybe non denominational.
Don't seem to fit anywhere.

What you are is a Spiritually born again child of God indwelled with the Holy Spirit. There is no denomination or non-denomination in that, but only being His own.

 

[for_his_glory]

Sokar,lol.
He allows Satan to do things.
See job

What does Sokar mean?

Yes, God does as I stated in post #38

 

[jasonc]

What does Sokar mean?

Yes, God does as I stated in post #38

Sokar ,lol .a Stargate reference to the ruler of sokar.not sure if that is Egyptian before or after Anubis the god of the underworld.

 

[jasonc]

Sokar | Ancient Egypt Online

ancientegyptonline.co.uk

 

[for_his_glory]

Sokar ,lol .a Stargate reference to the ruler of sokar.not sure if that is Egyptian before or after Anubis the god of the underworld.

Thank you.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Yeah…the prince of the air. The evil one. That guy.

Explains a lot about life in this fallen world doesn’t it?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I'm considering everything you post as we discuss.

How about
1 Corinthians 15:24
22Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life.
23But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back.
24After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.

Pretty interesting...What is happening is the believers are slowly but with progress turning the kingdoms of man over to the kingship of Jesus. It is difficult to see unless one knows human history. But the rulers and authority of powers, I believe, are spiritual ones and they do treat mankind as "rats in a maze" destroying and stealing as much as possible, that is, they get men to do the dirty work for them unbeknownst to man (hence the maze.)

What this scripture says is that Jesus, who I believe is King, will hand the Kingdom over to the father. The scriptures speaks of Jesus ruling until his enemies are made "a footstool for his feet," that is, become friends, speaking of men, of course, not Satan's rulership. So man and his countries will be not be destroyed but the dark spiritual world. That is my view, in any case. You needn't agree, but it is nice if you understood what you disagreed with.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Satan only has power and rules over those who are worldly and none of God's own as he deceives the minds of those who walk in disobedience to God's commands. Who do you believe it was that tempted Adam and Eve in the beginning and will continue until He is cast into the lake of fire?

True, Satan only has power over those who give him power over their lives and minds, those who walk in disobedience to God's commands. I do not think believers are excluded but it depends upon how much we cooperate in being disobedient or obedient to God's commands. There are believers, and not a few, in whom the Enemy has a hold and they do as he entices them to do and gains thereby more ground.

Now certainly Satan tempted Adam and Eve and thereby gained the authority that they had been given in the world. So sin entered the world and Satan had power over the world...until Jesus came and defeated him. Since the time of Christ, the love of God has been being shed abroad in the world changing man and nations. They are not believers, and that is not what I am saying, but one by one, nations are turning to peace and justice and freedom as values. These are things God values as he said we will turn our weapons of war (swords) into means of feeding others (ploughshares.)

In centuries past, probably since Nimrod, nations haven praised and lauded war and fighting to gain material or power. It was a point of pride. The powerful did as they wished. But since Christ and even now, we see that the world feels very differently about war and fighting and doing horrible things to other people to gain material or power. A few centuries ago, nations blithely went to war when one acted up and we saw this in the two world wars. Now we have one rogue nation starting a war and they nations are trying desperately to avoid war. This was not known in the history of the whole world. We condemn the nation who started the conflict. We call their deeds "war crimes," a term not even thought of centuries ago. We hate fighting and killing and brutality, by and large, as nations.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Actually, it helps me to understand why there's so much misery in the world.

Yes, one can feel pity for those who do evil as they are in the grip of the evil one. One can have mercy towards man and hatred towards the Devil.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

When Joshua's spies returned, they said the inhabitants of the promised land were horrible, evil persons.

I thought they said they were giants.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

This was, of course, before the cross and the resurrection. And notice that even then, the Devil had to be permission from God to do something against this man. Of course this man was righteous and that made a difference. He, Job, had not been disobedient to God and so Satan "had nothing in him" and therefore had to ask permission. It does show that Satan is limited in any case. Either God or man has to give him permission to act in them.

These two verses, plus the ones I and wondering posted, we see that Satan, being the god of this world, the power of the air has all power to try and destroy that which is of God. Satan is only the god of those who have no faith in God or His Son Christ Jesus as being prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Ephesians 2:2-3.

Satan's greatest playground is that of trying to rule our mind.

Yes, Satan's field of work is the mind and subsequent emotions. But as Paul wrote, we are not ignorant of his scenes. Jesus is now King and we have authority to tread on snakes and scorpions in his name. That was not the case before.

Satan is the ruler/god of this world over all evil that is found in the hearts of man as they walk after the lust of the flesh. From the beginning when he tempted Adam and Eve to fall and will continue until Christ returns and then will be cast into the lake of fire.

Satan is not really a god and he is not ruling over the world as he has to entice men to do his will. He cannot command them. His power is limited. The cross and resurrection did a major blow to his kingdom and scripture says if he had known the outcome, he would never have crucified the son of God. Jesus returned with the keys to the kingdom that Satan had previously had.

You do not have to agree with what I am going to say, but at least you should understand what you disagree with. I believe the kingdoms of this world are coming more and more under his headship. In the west we are losing to the enemy, but in other parts of the world Jesus is winning. Christians is speaking like wild fire around the world and nation after nation is shedding its ruthless dictators and adapting rule by law.

Now I believe that how men live and treat each other is as important to God as their eternal destiny. One can see this all through the scriptures where the laws of God are primarily about how we are to behave to other people IN THIS LIFETIME. Micah 6:8 is a prime example. The sermon on the mount is chalk full of how we are to behave towards others, not merely "getting saved and going to heaven when you die." So I see Satan as stealing and so on but he has to get permission from man to do so. And while he works through unbelievers more easily, he also works through believers for sure. He entires them to rebel against the commands/teachings of God as to how to think and behave. Some threads here are full of his successes.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I just thought about this important verse.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

It's not until the sounding of the seventh trumpet that the world will become God's once more for ever and ever. This shows that for now Satan is the ruling/god power over the world.

Now I said I like your post because it shows some excellent thinking on your part and I am impressed. Oddly enough, perhaps, while this verse is fully in line with your eschatology, it is also fully in line with mine and I see this has happening in the past. Again, you do not have to agree but maybe you can understand exactly what it is you disagree with.

Notice the verse in Revelation 11 happens before all the calamity, not afterwards. The bowls of wrath are poured and the beast is given power over the saints after this verse, something rather odd if the kingdoms of the world are literally and by a military take over under Jesus' authority. So I see Jesus' authority or kingship as working in the hearts of man changing nation by a gentle calling and wooing. This began at the Resurrection but was at first primarily for the Jews that they have the chance to repent and be saved. Once all who wished began grafted into Jesus, the rest were separated from the believing Jews (they left Jerusalem when the armies were surrounding it was seen) and God judged them and divorced them as a nation of his own. So I see the Kingship as starting in the first century "of our Lord" or Anno Domino and percolating through the nations changing them both for eternity and now. This is the view I take. Again, you needn't agree but it is nice if you understand it.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Sokar,lol.
He allows Satan to do things.
See job

Job was a special case.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The 3 1/2 year reign of the son of perdition in the end of days being the beast out of the earth causing all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death for not denouncing Jesus as their Lord and Savior has not happened yet. Rev 13.

The problem with this view is Rev 13 comes after the trumpets where you already said is when Jesus is proclaimed King which in your view, has not yet happened. So how come after Jesus is proclaimed King, the 3.5 year reign of the evil man who kills a number of believers happens in full force right under Jesus' ruling? All of what you call the Great Tribulation happens after Jesus is proclaimed King. Do you see that this is problem? It is not a problem in my view as I believe Jesus is already the King and Satan has very limited power, mostly to deceive men.

But, I will say that it is Satan that rules through the beast out of the sea who gives power to the beast out of the earth that claims he is God and at the end of his reign then will Christ return and the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of Christ as God has made His enemies His footstool.

Except that you said Jesus is proclaimed King ("the kingdoms of this world HAVE BECOME the kingdom of our Lord") BEFORE all of that. So Satan ruling through the beast, in your view, is happening after Jesus returns and is King. That is the order in the scripture. Chapter 11 he is King with succeeding chapters the Great Tribulation happens under his Kingship, in your eschatology.

This is not off subject as I believe Jesus is King and Satan has lost his authority. He can deceive and still does. But the authority is no longer his. He can no longer offer anyone the world as he did Jesus. He doesn't own the world anymore. He can offer a bit of fame to some and has done so. He was the angel with musical talent and he gives that to those who are willing to worship him giving him their lives. We can see that in the music industry which is firmly under his control now as the stars are his, many of them. (He has also invaded the Christian music scene which is another subject.)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

A word on Job. Satan demanded to have Job and had to do so because Job was the most righteous man on earth. Satan did not otherwise have a handle on that man and so had to ask permission. Satan has to get permission to touch us but we can give him permission, this does not require God doing so. And, more importantly, Satan does not have to go to God to get to us. We can do that ourselves or parents can do this for their children. How is permission given? By obeying Satan and rebelling against the teachings of Christ.

So if you think God is protecting you from Satan, you are wrong unless your life is such that God can describe you as he described Job. We often have opened the doors to him in our lives and so unlike Jesus and Job, he has something on us, a legal entry that we gave him by our disobedience. We are given weapons of warfare, the protection of which we are responsible for. The righteousness of Christ is appropriated but only one piece of protection. It is not automatic, which we can see from observation. Our lives are not free of the enemy's attacks.

 

[GodsGrace]

I thought they said they were giants.

They were giants, as stated in the OT.
I was alluding to the fact that they were evil people.
I believe they were the ones that sacrificed infants.
The other member asked why I thought they were evil.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Cooper

You said:

God reigns supreme. He cursed the earth (Adam), He uses nature as appropriate allowing the Israelites to cross the river for example, and plagues etc. as punishment. One day the curse will be lifted when lion and lamb will lay down side by side. Just don't be thinking every bad thing that happens is God's punishment, it isn't. Hold in your mind that God loves his own and will keep and protect us as his precious children, and because the laws of nature are always in place and ongoing there will always be ice on the road causing accidents and earthquakes under the sea and on land with disastrous results, and that is how it has always been since before Adam and the curse.

I agree that God uses nature.
I agree that He is King of the Universe.
But there are too many verses that state that satan in the god of this world.

BTW, I don't think that every bad thing that happens is God's punishment.
I've never stated that and never will because I don't believe it.

Of course God ALLOWS satan to be the god of this world,
but it does seem to me that Adam let evil into everything, including satan.
Before everything was Good because God created everything good...
now we deal with satanic pressures....the prince of the air.

 

[electedbyHim]

I believe this is inline with this thread showing how satan is the god of this world.

All unbelievers are children of satan according to the following verses, which would make satan ruler/god of this world.



John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Matthew 13:38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

Act 13:10 and said, “You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord?

1 John 3:12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.



Just some thoughts.

Grace and peace to you.