Who made God?

[Randy]

I have to ask...are you serious? Then I read this section over again and have to ask....are you talking about Jesus being born to the Father in heaven...pre-incarnate .....or are you referring to Jesus being born on earth via Mary?

I also have to ask, by "Jesus has His own spirit" do you mean as part of His incarnation He received a spirt just as we do?

You asked:
Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. Before the angels of God. Before the world began. As a Son he has His own Spirit before the world began before all other beings except God. The Son that was (His Spirit) was in the tent of the body God prepared for Him as Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit. The Father was still in Him with His Spirit. Just as Jesus is in us as the Spirit was sent in His name.

Jesus=>"Father into your hands I commit My Spirit"

Hebrews 1:6
And again, when God brings the firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels bow to him."

hebrews 12:23
...the assembly (church) of the firstborn...

So what I state is Jesus has always been the Son and He has a beginning but no end.

Randy

 

[th1b.taylor]

If you were meaning that some in here are lacking in humility, that could be the case, but it may not be the case. But that would be a proper use of that verse based on context. Is that what you meant?

Free,
You want me say the darnedest things and I will not go there and become a heritic no matter how much you pound on me. I said not a single thing about anyone lacking humility and I cannot, logically, get that from the text published. You do this, go off subject, to me all of the time. Why would a Mod do that?

 

[th1b.taylor]

Free, you have asked and I already answered in post #173.

 

[Jim Parker]

In Jesus's day no one could openly teach He was the Son of God in the synagogue as they would have been kicked out of the synagogue.

That's true. The Jewish leaders would not tolerate such a statement. They would have considered it blasphemy. So what?
The Gospels clearly state the Jesus is the Son of God.
Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.
Luk 22:70 Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?” So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.”

The Holy Spirit is the Fathers Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father's spirit.
The Holy Spirit is a separate person (hypostasis) of the Trinity who proceeds from the Father.
If the Holy Spirit were the Father's spirit, He would be the same hypostasis; in other words

There is only one God. Ask Jesus (the head of the body of Christ) who that God is.

You seem to be suggesting that Jesus is not God.
Is that what you mean?

Do you accept the teaching of the Trinity?

 

[Free]

Gods firstborn would be a being and such a being would state "before Abraham was born I AM"

The fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. (given)

A beginning but No end.

If Jesus had a beginning but claimed to be the I AM, then he is a liar because the I AM doesn't have a beginning. Again, a significant contradiction in your position.

 

[Free]

Free,
You want me say the darnedest things and I will not go there and become a heritic no matter how much you pound on me.

What in the world are you talking about? I asked an very simple question for clarification.

I said not a single thing about anyone lacking humility and I cannot, logically, get that from the text published.

I know you didn't say anything about humility, hence why I asked. And I asked because there simply is no way one can read that text in context and not understand that the whole point is the need for Jesus's followers to have humility. Context actually doesn't get any clearer than that. I pointed all that out to you previously, along with the passage to show that it is the case.

You do this, go off subject, to me all of the time. Why would a Mod do that?

You went off topic first with your misuse of that verse. I simply responded by pointing out how you took it out of context. I do it because taking things in context to get a proper understanding of God's Word and avoid misuse of it, is very important to me, as it should be to any believer. Wouldn't you agree? I will do it to anyone and would do it regardless of whether or not I was a mod.

Free, you have asked and I already answered in post #173.

If you had, I wouldn't have had to ask.

 

[Cygnus]

And thus your statement that God's son had "a beginning" is unbiblical.

I would have to say yes and no to that. The Word that became flesh had no beginning....but the incarnate human portion of Jesus had a beginning.

 

[Cygnus]

You asked:
Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. Before the angels of God. Before the world began. As a Son he has His own Spirit before the world began before all other beings except God. The Son that was (His Spirit) was in the tent of the body God prepared for Him as Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit. The Father was still in Him with His Spirit. Just as Jesus is in us as the Spirit was sent in His name.

Jesus=>"Father into your hands I commit My Spirit"

Hebrews 1:6
And again, when God brings the firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels bow to him."

hebrews 12:23
...the assembly (church) of the firstborn...

So what I state is Jesus has always been the Son and He has a beginning but no end.

Randy

You didn't quite answer my question...but, what you did say is incorrect. The Trinity always existed and never did it not exist.

 

[Jim Parker]

A beginning but No end.

God the Logos (Word) had no beginning in time.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Jesus of Nazareth had a beginning when the eternal Logos (without beginning) became flesh.
John 1:14a "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,"
"I Am that I Am" is the name by which God identified Himself to Moses. at Exo 3:14.
"I Am" is the name by which Jesus identified Himself to the Jews at Jhn 8:58
Those two identifications correspond to the fact of The Logos, Who took on flesh as Jesus, is uncreated.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I know you didn't say anything about humility, hence why I asked. And I asked because there simply is no way one can read that text in context and not understand that the whole point is the need for Jesus's followers to have humility. Context actually doesn't get any clearer than that. I pointed all that out to you previously, along with the passage to show that it is the case.

Then one of us has a problem with context and it is not me. I'm sorry you have pushed me this far and it might get me kicked but I said nothing of the kind and I was very careful to be concise and it was not even addressed for you. I'm not singling you out but I can't say the same thing about the other direction. You seem to take exception with anything I post.

 

[Free]

Then one of us has a problem with context and it is not me.

It most certainly is you. Not that anyone should need to, because the context is so clear, but if you have a commentary or two or three, look up that verse and tell me what it says.

I'm sorry you have pushed me this far and it might get me kicked but I said nothing of the kind and I was very careful to be concise and it was not even addressed for you.

I haven't pushed you at all and I didn't say you said anything of any kind in that post. And concise doesn't mean one is right. You haven't even explained what you meant, even when I asked.

How do I know it wasn't addressed to me? You didn't didn't address it to anyone in particular, so it was essentially addressed to everyone, not that it matters. Any post by anyone is open for response from anyone else. That is the nature of forums.

I'm not singling you out but I can't say the same thing about the other direction. You seem to take exception with anything I post.

I'm not singling you out anymore than anyone addressing someone else's post is singling them out.

 

[Randy]

The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father's spirit.
The Holy Spirit is a separate person (hypostasis) of the Trinity who proceeds from the Father.
If the Holy Spirit were the Father's spirit, He would be the same hypostasis; in other words

You seem to be suggesting that Jesus is not God.
Is that what you mean?

Do you accept the teaching of the Trinity?

I have already stated who Jesus is. He has always been the Son. Gods firstborn. And in Jesus all the fullness was pleased to dwell.


The Fathers promise =>In the last days I will pour out MY SPIRIT...

While "Jesus" seems to speak of the Holy Spirit as a separate person the "Father" does NOT.

Matt 10:20
Jesus=>for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

Jesus=>The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is upon me....

 

[th1b.taylor]

I have already stated who Jesus is. He has always been the Son. Gods firstborn. And in Jesus all the fullness was pleased to dwell.


The Fathers promise =>In the last days I will pour out MY SPIRIT...

While "Jesus" seems to speak of the Holy Spirit as a separate person the "Father" does NOT.

Matt 10:20
Jesus=>for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

Jesus=>The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is upon me....

Randy,
What I get from your posts is that you believe in the Father and the Son but not the Spirit and it look's as though you deny the third person of the Triune God. If I am wrong, please, forgive me. Luke 1:35, Matt 28:19, Matt 3:16,17, John 14:16,17, Luke 3:21,22, 1Jon 5:7,8, all speak to God being three persons.

 

[reba]

I just love it when direct questions are not answered in like.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Alright, as I elaborated on in post #173, no.

 

[OzSpen]

The answer is actually quite simple. There is a requirement for a God that always was and never wasn't to be if there is anything that exist today.
The reason is that "stuff" of the universe can't self create itself from absolute nothingness. For stuff to be, there has to be a creator.
Considering the creator could not be the creator of himself...as you can't get something from nothing...the creator has to be eternal from eternal past.

Why couldn't the original 'stuff' of the universe be eternal?

 

[Randy]

Randy,
What I get from your posts is that you believe in the Father and the Son but not the Spirit and it look's as though you deny the third person of the Triune God. If I am wrong, please, forgive me. Luke 1:35, Matt 28:19, Matt 3:16,17, John 14:16,17, Luke 3:21,22, 1Jon 5:7,8, all speak to God being three persons.

I believe the Holy Spirit is the Fathers Spirit as God states "My Spirit". I do not believe Gods Spirit is a separate distinct person from the "Father". That Spirit searches the mind of the Spirit.

For what person knows a man’s thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Randy,
What I get from your posts is that you believe in the Father and the Son but not the Spirit and it look's as though you deny the third person of the Triune God. If I am wrong, please, forgive me. Luke 1:35, Matt 28:19, Matt 3:16,17, John 14:16,17, Luke 3:21,22, 1Jon 5:7,8, all speak to God being three persons.

I don't know how you get that (don't believe in the Holy Spirit) from my posts. What you should get is that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of our heavenly Father not a separate distinct person from the Father. As God is Spirit His own Spirit is Devine.
Randy

 

[th1b.taylor]

I believe the Holy Spirit is the Fathers Spirit as God states "My Spirit". I do not believe Gods Spirit is a separate distinct person from the "Father". That Spirit searches the mind of the Spirit.

Alright, I wasn't specific enough. The Bible is the documents or parchments that we, the followers of the Christ know as the Old Testament making the New Testament a collection of 27 God inspired Life Application Commentaries on the previous 39 books of the Word of God. The scriptures I gave you above, all teach that God is a Triune, being three persons in one God.
I will not lie about it, I can give you the egg and other examples for metaphors, but the truth is they all fall short of explaining the truth, so I will not go there. But if you will look at what is going on around Matthew 18:3 you will find that we are to become as small children.

As I recall it when Dad told me something, understand it or not, it was truth from that point on and until I became to big for my britches at about 14. That is what Jesus is saying to us in the early section of Matthew 18 on how we must believe. If scripture says it, it is truth! And scripture teaches there are three distinct persons in the Godhead! I do not need to explain it, I need only to believe it because the Father said it.

For what person knows a man’s thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

All three persons of the Trinity know your thoughts, just as they do mine.

I don't know how you get that (don't believe in the Holy Spirit) from my posts. What you should get is that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of our heavenly Father not a separate distinct person from the Father. As God is Spirit His own Spirit is Devine.
Randy

Alright, here is where I misspoke. What was meant is that you do not believe that the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. The scriptures of Jesus being Baptized by John clearly illustrate three divine beings, making your position not untenable.

 

[Cygnus]

Why couldn't the original 'stuff' of the universe be eternal?

Where then did the stuff it come from? Unlike God, stuff can't think, desire, understand.
Secondly, if it existed from eternity past all of the energy would have been lost to entropy.
Also...if the stuff existed from eternity past...now would never get here. Just like eternity into the future will never arrive.
Then there is....what caused the stuff to change?
One other reason I can think of right now off the top of my head.....Eternal "stuff" is not how the bible said stuff came into being.

 

[Cygnus]

John 1:1 tells us a lot about Jesus:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made====>14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

This verse clearly tells us Jesus is God. If God the Father made Jesus then John was incorrect when he said "All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made".