Who made God?

[chessman]

The day was what the bible simply speaks off....

Yes, that's my point. Why insert what YOU think (24 hours) when the Text itself literally says the light was called day by God. And note my proof. I'll even underline it so it cannot be missed:

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day. ​

If God had called the first 24 hours "day", you'd have a point. But in fact, He did not.

Post a verse referencing the creation account (Genesis isn't the only creation reference in the Bible) where God called "day" 24 hours.

OK, so you found a bible verse and snipped it out and posted it.

Yep. It's called Theology in the discussion/debate forum.

Then you underlined a portion of it.....as if were suppose to get it.

Yes, you should have gotten the fact that God has spoken of the seventh day in a way not consistent with a 24 hour day.

Hebrews 4:4 For he has spoken somewhere about the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,” ​

To be honest it looks like you took it out of context.

Then show how so. Are you talking about the days within the creation of the world or not? Hebrews 4 is most certainly talking about the 7th creation "day" being the period of rest since God's 6th day. Well beyond 24 hours.

Hebrews 4:3-4 For we who have believed enter into rest, just as he has said, “As I swore in my anger, ‘They will never enter into my rest.’” And yet these works have been accomplished from the foundation of the world. For he has spoken somewhere about the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,”​

Some how you tried to make this verse say a day is some sort of age.

The 7th day is spoken of as; God resting from all His works on the seventh day, not as 24 hours. There's nothing to get. It's self explanatory that the 7th day (at least) is not 24 hours. And note, it's a numbered day, just like 1-6 are.

I noticed you had to place that meaning into the verse. Why?

I placed nothing into the verse.

Although the book of Genesis may not actually define a day using the term 24 hours..... what it does do is express a time period using simple language the clearly represents a 24 hour long time period.

No it doesn't. As I said, the "day" was expressed by God as "light", not as a time period.

The days are numbered and morning and evening are talk of...something that ALL OF US understand to be a 24 hour long time period.

Your understanding and God's word are not necessarily the same thing. In Theology, we are studying what God called "day", not what you understand it as. BTW, days now are not 24 hours long anyway. They're 23 hours and 56 seconds. How do you know how long the first "day" was??? You don't. The Bible doesn't say. What it does say is God called the light day though. And called His rest, the 7th day.

So, quite literally there was light for half an eon and darkness for the other half of the eon?

Wrong. There was darkness upon the Earth, then a beginning of the day/light (better known as morning) and then an end to that period of day/light (better known as evening). You got 1/2 light and 1/2 darkness from the same source as you get 24 hours from. It's not Biblical.

 

[chessman]

I'll ask the Theo-Evo sect to explain how sin entered...and you won't get an answer.

I've read a good percentage of the Christians listed in post #229. And all of the website author's (Hugh Ross) works. Not a one of them are Theo-Evo sect. Dr. Ross and his staff speaks worldwide AGAINST the evolution of Adam from primates.

Evolution of the first man (Adam) has about as much to do with the Genesis account as 24 hour days does. Neither are found within the Text.

 

[Cygnus]

Yes, that's my point. Why insert what YOU think (24 hours) when the Text itself literally says the light was called day by God. And note my proof. I'll even underline it so it cannot be missed:

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
If God had called the first 24 hours "day", you'd have a point. But in fact, He did not.

Post a verse referencing the creation account (Genesis isn't the only creation reference in the Bible) where God called "day" 24 hours.

You failed to read the entire verse..at the end Gd calls the combination of light and dark...day.
Here, read it......And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Your argument over the years has been shown to fail in many ways.

Yes, you should have gotten the fact that God has spoken of the seventh day in a way not consistent with a 24 hour day.

No, it is you who speak of it in a way not consistent with the preceding verses.

No it doesn't. As I said, the "day" was expressed by God as "light", not as a time period.

You alrady tried that argument and failed when you didn't include all the verse. You make it sound like everythime the word day is used in the bible it means only the lighted time of the day.

Your understanding and God's word are not necessarily the same thing. In Theology, we are studying what God called "day", not what you understand it as. BTW, days now are not 24 hours long anyway. They're 23 hours and 56 seconds. How do you know how long the first "day" was??? You don't. The Bible doesn't say. What it does say is God called the light day though. And called His rest, the 7th day.

Are you really going to try and use that argument? I really don't care if the days were 100 hours long...it still proves your day/age concept as incorrect.

Wrong. There was darkness upon the Earth, then a beginning of the day/light (better known as morning) and then an end to that period of day/light (better known as evening). You got 1/2 light and 1/2 darkness from the same source as you get 24 hours from. It's not Biblical.

Chessman, I have one word to say to you......Checkmate.

 

[Cygnus]

I've read a good percentage of the Christians listed in post #229. And all of the website author's (Hugh Ross) works. Not a one of them are Theo-Evo sect. Dr. Ross and his staff speaks worldwide AGAINST the evolution of Adam from primates.

Evolution of the first man (Adam) has about as much to do with the Genesis account as 24 hour days does. Neither are found within the Text.

As I told Calvin...guys like you wouldn't answer the question. Thanks for playing.

 

[Free]

One of the first thing evolutionism does is it destroys the biblical reason and logic behind original sin and why we have a sin nature.

Only if one assumes a naturalistic framework for evolution.

 

[Cygnus]

Only if one assumes a naturalistic framework for evolution.

Then present the biblical approach in the biblical framework of evolution.

 

[Free]

Then present the biblical approach in the biblical framework of evolution.

I didn't say there was a biblical framework for evolution. The point is that the Bible doesn't say what method God used in creating living things. If God used evolution as the means of creating all living things, then it all would have been preprogrammed to do precisely what God wanted it all to do. It would have been guided or at least overseen by God. The result would still be that man is made in his image.

Regardless of what one believes about how God made all living things, there are certain things we must understand from the Genesis account:

1. God created everything that has come into existence.
2. Man was specifically created in the image of God.
3. Man sinned by disobeying God and broke that relationship.
4. God essentially promised he would bring about reconciliation.

 

[chessman]

.at the end Gd calls the combination of light and dark...day.

No He (God) didn't.

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day. ​

Read it again. He called the light day. Moses recorded the fact of morning (first day/light) as the "first day". In accordance with what God just called it. Never mentioning the # of hours.

You just make stuff up and

I'll ask the Theo-Evo sect to explain how sin entered...and you won't get an answer.

As I told Calvin...guys like you wouldn't answer the question.

I don't believe in the evolution of Adam from a primate. Nor did you ask me about original sin.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Papa Zoom, I dismiss day/age theology for many reasons. The first i already mentioned...it goes against the simple reading.
Secondly most christians (Theistic- Evolutionist) do so to force fit the bible into an old earth God used evolutionism to create mankind.

If that is the case then there are several important biblical facts about what the bible teaches that need to be re-written. That being said creates problems for Geisler as well as you.

One of the first thing evolutionism does is it destroys the biblical reason and logic behind original sin and why we have a sin nature.

I never brought up theistic evolution and I'm not one of those.

 

[Jim Parker]

One of the first thing evolutionism does is it destroys the biblical reason and logic behind original sin and why we have a sin nature.

No it doesn't.

But it does challenge the simplistic notion that the 6 days of creation in Gen.1 are to be taken literally rather than as the standard ancient middle eastern literary device of beginning a story with a genealogy.

The 6, 24 hour days of creation are also demonstrated to be an erroneous understanding by modern astrophysics by which we know that the universe is about 13.7 billion years old, not a few thousand years.

And, just to let you know, the doctrines of "original sin" and our "sin nature" are ideas that were developed by the Roman Catholic scholastics following the lead of insertion of Platonic and Aristotelian Greek philosophy into Christian hermeneutics by Augustine of Hippo.

The idea that all of mankind is guilty of Adam's sin is explicitly refuted by scripture and mankind does not have a "sin nature". Sin is an infection in the good nature with which God endowed man. You see the evidence of that good nature in Paul's description of the war between the flesh and the mind.

IMO, if you believe the Bible is an historical report a literal six day creation and a literal garden with a literal tree of life and a literal tree of the knowledge of good and evil then you are probably missing a lot of the story.

But, if it works for you, then, enjoy.

 

[Cygnus]

I never brought up theistic evolution and I'm not one of those.

I'm glad to hear that...typically when some post "As for the literal 24 hour period: I rejected that long ago." such as you did they profess a Theistic-Evolutionary old earth iew.

 

[Cygnus]

The idea that all of mankind is guilty of Adam's sin is explicitly refuted by scripture and mankind does not have a "sin nature". Sin is an infection in the good nature with which God endowed man. You see the evidence of that good nature in Paul's description of the war between the flesh and the mind.

"Sin is an infection in the good nature with which God endowed man."

Then where did the infection come from.

 

[IncredibleTransformation]

Does it matter who made God. He existed before time began, he created everything, and he is in control. So who made God is a conversation that we don't need to have.

 

[Cygnus]

Does it matter who made God. He existed before time began, he created everything, and he is in control. So who made God is a conversation that we don't need to have.

Does it matter? Most certainly. The answer to the question is that God wasn't made. If God was made then God isn't God.

 

[Free]

Does it matter who made God. He existed before time began, he created everything, and he is in control. So who made God is a conversation that we don't need to have.

In terms of apologetics and apologetic discussions, it most certainly matters and is a conversation we need to have.

 

[Jim Parker]

"Sin is an infection in the good nature with which God endowed man."
Then where did the infection come from.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Where? Do you want grid coordinates?
How? From the first disobedience of God by man.
That's what the story in Gen 3 tells us.

God created man in His image and likeness (Gen 1:26-27) with the purpose that man would be immortal (The tree of life is available to man in the garden. Gen 2:9)
By sin, man "fell (and continues to fall) short of the Glory of God" and death came into the world by sin.

Rom 5:12-13 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So, I think "infection" is a good way to describe sin. We are created in God's image and likeness but sin enters our bodies and, instead of being immortal, we die.

iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I'm glad to hear that...typically when some post "As for the literal 24 hour period: I rejected that long ago." such as you did they profess a Theistic-Evolutionary old earth iew.

I think there's much we don't know. Much more we don't know than we do. I know there are arguments for a young earth and they are made by knowledgeable people. But there's also good arguments for an old universe (and an old earth along with that). I left the young earth camp long ago.

As for evolution, it's observable. But to what extent? I know that certain strains of bacteria can become resistant to antibiotics where a previous generation of that bacteria could not stand up to the antibiotics. Animal species adapt to the environment and in some/many/most cases physical changes occur over time. We see this happening in real time. But the Darwinian model seems to have lost its steam and I never entertained its validity. The fossil record is interesting and it's very interesting that we have basic body plans in the early fossil record and it progresses from there. The Cambrian explosion seems to break the progressive sequence as we have a burst of new and unique body plans that are far more sophisticated with no precursors in the fossil record. That fact seems to put a huge hole in the Darwinian model.

That said, I don't know how God did it and I'm quite open to the idea that humanoid type beings existed before Adam. I see that as a plausible possibility. As my science is not strong, I could be all wet. That's okay as I don't rest any hope on science but rest my hope on Jesus alone.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Does it matter who made God. He existed before time began, he created everything, and he is in control. So who made God is a conversation that we don't need to have.

Because if something made God, then God is NOT all powerful. There's something greater than God since that thing made God. God is then secondary to this other more powerful thing.

 

[Cygnus]

That said, I don't know how God did it and I'm quite open to the idea that humanoid type beings existed before Adam. I see that as a plausible possibility.

I have to comment on this....that would be in contradiction to scripture.
Genesis tells us Eve was the mother of all.

Paul tells us through one man God made the nations....which contradicts the pre-humanoid theory.

Acts 17:26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

 

[Papa Zoom]

I have to comment on this....that would be in contradiction to scripture.
Genesis tells us Eve was the mother of all.

Paul tells us through one man God made the nations....which contradicts the pre-humanoid theory.

Acts 17:26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

Yes well I know that. I just don't think we know what we think we know.