Bible Study Who of the Godhead Did What In The Old Covenant (Testament)?

[brother Paul]

Just to clarify, I am a trinitarian. I was merely pointing out rhe meaning of the word Theios and that it is a generic for Deity or the Divine and it speaks of the One God not His triune nature. I am not questioning that He has revealed Himself to us in three eternally distinct personnae....

 

[brother Paul]

[QUOTE="for_his_glory, post: 1165936, member: 1581deleted

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o society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize religion

 

[for_his_glory]

Great explanation of religion. I also have taught the Trinity to kids. You know, the triangle, the water, steam, ice trick. However I'd try to explain it, it always sounded like 3 different Gods.
I like to say that religion is knowing about God. Christianity is knowing God.
I have friends of a certain denomination that are very concerned with what their church is doing, how some doctrine might change, what religious holiday is coming up and other such talk. I never hear them mention the word Jesus. Although I do believe they might be saved - who am I to judge? Only Jesus can make the relationship personal, IMO. He walked this earth, we beheld Him. John 1:14

Wondering

It's hard pressed at times to actually find a church or even a Pastor teach on Gods salvation. They skirt around it, but very seldom ever define its meaning. When we let go of what the carnal man teaches us and allow the Holy Spirit teach us, John 14:26, then all truth will be revealed to us. 1John 1:27; 1John 4:1-4

 

[for_his_glory]

Great explanation of religion. I also have taught the Trinity to kids. You know, the triangle, the water, steam, ice trick. However I'd try to explain it, it always sounded like 3 different Gods.
I like to say that religion is knowing about God. Christianity is knowing God.
I have friends of a certain denomination that are very concerned with what their church is doing, how some doctrine might change, what religious holiday is coming up and other such talk. I never hear them mention the word Jesus. Although I do believe they might be saved - who am I to judge? Only Jesus can make the relationship personal, IMO. He walked this earth, we beheld Him. John 1:14

Wondering

It's hard pressed at times to actually find a church or even a Pastor teach on Gods salvation. They skirt around it, but very seldom ever define its meaning. When we let go of what the carnal man teaches us and allow the Holy Spirit teach us, John 14:26, then all truth will be revealed to us. 1John 1:27; 1John 4:1-4

 

[th1b.taylor]

H Taylor,
Yes. When Jesus spoke of the scriptures He meant the O.T.
For study I use the NAS and it does have a chain reference, maybe not as extensive as the one you mention above which I'm not familiar with.
I reread my post no. 33 and I can see how one knowing so much more than I do could take some things the wrong way. Uffa.
All three were present at creation. God is the thought, Jesus is the Word, the Holy Spirit is the breath God speaks and which is issued when the Word is spoken. Is this correct in your understanding?

Jesus was generated, not created. He always existed. He came down to earth from heaven.
He introduces us to our Father in heaven. God was never referred to as Father in the O.T.
He leaves and sends the Holy Spirit, who always existed but can now indwell within us in a different way and available to all.
Is this clear? Do you agree?

Wondering

That is explicitly clear to me, uhhhh, as clear as can possibly be understood by one that longs to truly understand the one thing, purposely, withheld by God that we must, therefore accept Him in His Trinitarian form by faith and faith alone.

 

[Free]

Hi Free,
You say that the use of the word "for" connects to something said previously. Okay. But then you go ahead and say it connects to the O.T. Okay there too. But Romans 10:9 doesn't seem to be connecting to the O.T. in a direct way. Paul is speaking of Jesus.

Yes, I know, that is the whole point. He is speaking of Jesus in verse 9 but then through a series of "for" statements, connects verse 13 to verse 9, equating the two.

I think part of the misunderstanding between us here, is the word Yahweh interchanged with God.
Yes. Jesus is God.

YHWH is one of the names of God. Therefore, if Jesus is God, he is also YHWH. The argument is sound.

But He's not Yahweh. Yahweh is a title given to God the Father, the Creator,

This is called begging the question, unless you can prove is with Scripture. You must prove that only the Father is YHWH, you can't just claim it. And it's a name, not a title.

In this same way, Yahweh is a title given to God. God has different names to denote different characteristics. Yahweh is the most important title. It mean the Creator, the One who decides, the Almighty One, the Great I AM.

Again, YHWH is one of his names, not a title.

 

[brother Paul]

Here is what I have come to understand (accepting more or different evidence as you may provide)

There is only ONE YHVH….not two, not three….YHVH IS the Father, YHVH is the Son, and YHVH is the Spirit (but the Father is not the Son or Spirit, neither is the Son the Father or the Spirit, neither the Spirit the Son or Father)….the Father is the Lord, the Son is the Lord, the Spirit is the Lord, but there are not three Lord’s, only one. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God but there are not three God’s only one. God IS the Father, and the same one and only God IS the Son, and the same one and only God IS the Spirit.

In Genesis 18, "YHWH appeared to Abraham at the oaks of Mamre" but He is in the form of a man. Just like the previous chapter, this one opens with almost identical language (compare wyera YHWH el Abram, Gen.17.1; wyera elyaw YHWH, 18.1). This YHVH (the One Abraham knew as his Lord) is before Him in a flesh form as a Man. YHVH enters his tent, sits and dines with him and then He sends forth the two men (angels in flesh form) to rain fire and brimstone down upon Sodom from YHVH in heaven. So who is the YHVH with Abraham and the YHVH in heaven…two YHVHS? God forbid! One YHVH revealed in two personae.

In Exodus 3 the I AM who says He is the THE God of Moses fathers (Abrahm, Isaac, and Jacob) is identified as (YHVH-Malak) the Angel of the Lord. Read Exodus 3:1-3…it is the Angel of the Lord who says He IS YHVH. Yet here He is in a seeable form speaking to Moses, commanding and empowering Moses, commissioning Moses. He is the one Abraham knew as Lord!

When Deuteronomy 6 says “Hear O’Israel, the LORD our God (YHVH-Elohim), the LORD (YHVH) is one (echad – a Unity), it tells us the one and only God is also a Unity. This is played out rather subtly but here are a couple of examples.

Let us begin with Zechariah 2:10, 11. The scriptures read, “Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of you, says YHVH. And many nations shall be joined to YHVH in that day, and shall be my people: and I (YHVH) will dwell in the midst of you, and you shalt know that YHVH of hosts hath sent me unto you.”

So YHVH is going to come and dwell in the midst of His people when YHVH of Hosts sends Him. The original Masoretic even renders it this way…(note: the modern JPS Masoretic version has changed it because of its obvious implications).

 

[brother Paul]

Now turn to Isaiah 48 where YHVH is definitely speaking…

“I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I hurried them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass. Because I knew that you are obstinate, and your neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow like unto brass. I have even from the beginning declared it to you. Before it came to pass I showed it to you so you could not say, My idol has done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, have commanded them.

You have heard, see all this, and will not ye declare it? I have showed you new things from this time, even hidden things, and you could not know them. They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when had not yet heard them so you could not say, behold, I knew them. Yea, you heard not; yea, you knew not; yea, from that time when your ear was not even opened: for I knew that you would say how you would deal very treacherously, and were called a transgressor from the womb.

For my name's sake will I defer mine anger (YHVH’s), and for my praise will I refrain and not cut you off. Behold, I have refined you, but not with silver; I have chosen you in the furnace of affliction. For my own sake, even for my own sake, I will do it: for how should my name be polluted? I will not give my glory unto another. Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. My hand has also laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand has spanned the heavens. When I call unto them, they stand up together. All of you assemble yourselves and hear…which among them has declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.

I, even I, have spoken it. I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. Come near unto me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.”

So once again, in the Hebrew we see YHVH speaking to Israel and though they are stubborn and even idolatrous, He loves them, has chosen them, and He will come to them. The LORD (YHVH) of Hosts and His Spirit will send Him (the YHVH who is speaking). Some renditions say the LORD of Hosts has sent me WITH His Spirit.

So there is much more that can be said but this is already a four page answer. So I hope it has helped. I accepted the Triune explanation because of many instances such as these but I know there is ONY ONE YYHVH in nature, substance, essence. How the yachid God (numerically one) can be echad ( a Unity) is a mystery to me…many have tried to say iot is like the Sun…the radiance of brightness we can see would be the Son, the power and effectual doing of it would be like the Spirit, while the essence of it producing and controlling it is the Father but it is all ONLY ONE. Augustine tried to explain it this way.

 

[brother Paul]

YHVH as the Son became a human (He did it), as the Father YHVH sent Him for this purpose (He did it), and as the Holy Spirit He conceived Him incarnate to make the body happen in the virgins womb (He did it).

As a human being under the Old Covenant He was obedient unto death, even death on the cross. In His humanity He was subordinate to the Father, but not in His deity. YHVH is not subordinate to Himself as if He is two different beings, different in substance or essence. YHVH-Elohim is one in essence (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Timothy 2:5), but three in personae or person. Jesus is the brightness of the Glory (that of YHVH which can be seen) and the exact “representation” (outward manifestation) of His substance (see Hebrews 1:3). So they are not different in substance, neither the Father or the Son or the Spirit are greater or lesser than the others. YHVH is equally and totally YHVH, and ever remained so, regardless of revealing Himself as the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, Because all three are the same one and only YHVH-Elohim. They all have the same fullness of authority, fullness of power, and as the persons or personae, they have wills which are 100% in agreement. As a man however acquainted with hunger, sadness, and pain, the Messiah says “Not my will but yours be done.” He came to know what a person facing such judgment and peril would go through, but He went through it anyway for our sakes and for the sake of His Holy name, because He knew we could not gain remedy over the consequence of sin (the second death) and because He had promised (Genesis 3:15).

So let me ask you? Do you believe Jesus is at least an honest man? You believe He would only tell us the truth? That He would not lie? Then carefully read this statement He made…

John 5:37 Jesus says “And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form.”

Did you get that? Jesus is telling us NO ONE has EVER SEEN the Father or ever HEARD Him…

Now read Exodus 3…YHVH is seen and heard. Did Jesus lie? No! He tells us elsewhere that the Son reveals Him…

6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Who appeared to Him and Spoke? The Angel of the LORD appears yet He is afraid to look upon God. It is YHVH but it was not the Father… But He is YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob

In Genesis 16:7–14Now the angel of the LORD found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur. He said, “Hagar, Sarai’s maid, where have you come from and where are you going?” And she said, “I am fleeing from the presence of my mistress Sarai.” Then the angel of the LORD said to her, “Return to your mistress, and submit yourself to her authority.” Moreover, the angel of the LORD said to her, “I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they will be too many to count.” The angel of the LORD said to her further, “Behold, you are with child, And you will bear a son; And you shall call his name Ishmael, Because the LORD [e]has given heed to your affliction. He will be a wild donkey of a man, His hand will be against everyone, And everyone’s hand will be against him; And he will [f]live [g]to the east of all his brothers.” Then she called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, “ You are a God who sees”; for she said, “Have I even remained alive here after seeing Him?” Therefore the well was called Beer-lahai-roi; behold, it is between Kadesh and Bered.


Genesis 22:11–12And the Angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not your hand upon the boy, neither do anything to him: for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son from me.

From who? It was YHVH who commanded him to sacrifice Isaac! The Angel of the LORD IS YHVH.


Numbers 22:31-38 The Angel of the Lord meets the prophet Balaam on the road. He allows Balaam to see Him. In verse 38, Balaam identifies the Angel who spoke to him as God.


In Judges 2:1-3And an Angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt (but it was YHVH), and have brought you unto the land which I swore unto your fathers (but it was YHVH); and I said, I will never break my covenant with you (YHVH made the covenant with Israel).

And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.


Judges 6:11–23 The Angel of the Lord appears to Gideon but in verse 14 He refers to himself as God and in verse 21 He allows Gideon to sacrifice to him as to YHVH. Verse 22 shows Gideon fearing for his life because he has seen God.

Judges 13:3–22 The Angel of the Lord appears to Manoah and his wife, they realize in verse 22 they have been dealing with God Himself.


In Genesis 31:11the Angel of God calls out to Jacob in a dream and tells him "I am the God of Bethel" but if you remember when He wrestles with the “Man” at “Peniel” it was God he wrestled with. He even says he had seen God “face to face”.


So this being Who many have seen and heard is undoubtedly YHVH and thus He is God, but not the Father because no one has ever seen or heard the Father at any time (unless Jesus s a liar). The Angel of the LORD is YHVH and He is Christ before He was born as a baby, and He is God…He is YHVH the Savior and there is none else (Isaiah 43:10)


You are correct however when you say JESUS is not the Father! Jesus was born as a baby in Bethlehem as a human But before He came to earth as a human Baby He was God. He became God with us, God incarnate. But YHVH is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. The one and only YHVH is all three and all three are the one God.

Now then there is only ONE YHVH….not two not three….YHVH is the Father, YHVH is the Son, and YHVH is the Spirit (but the Father is not the Son or Spirit, neither is the Son the Father or the Spirit, neither the Spirit the Son or Father)….the Father is the Lord, the Son is the Lord, the Spirit is the Lord, but there are not three Lord’s only one. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God but there are not three God’s only one. God IS the Father and the same one and only God IS the Son, and the same one and only God IS the Spirit.

 

[JLB]

YHWH is one of the names of God. Therefore, if Jesus is God, he is also YHWH.

 

[Deborah13]

God was never referred to as Father in the O.T.

I had never thought much about this until Nehemia Gordon mentioned it in one of his youtube videos. He was raised Orthodox Jew to be a rabbi and comes from a long line of rabbis. He is now a Karaite Jew. He said he had never heard of God as his Father until he read Hebrew Matthew. But then he looked again and there is was, he just had been blind to it. So then I looked harder.
Fatherhood of God Throughout the Bible we find God portrayed as a Father. This portrayal, however, is surprisingly rare in the Old Testament. There God is specifically called the Father of the nation of Israel ( Deut 32:6 ; Isa 63:16 ; [twice] 64:8 ; Jeremiah 3:4 Jeremiah 3:19 ; 31:9 ; Mal 1:6 ; 2:10 ) or the Father of certain individuals ( 2 Sam 7:14 ; 1 Chron 17:13 ; 22:10 ; 28:6 ; Psalm 68:5 ; 89:26 ) only fifteen times. (At times the father imagery is present although the term "Father" is not used [ Exod 4:22-23 ; Deut 1:31 ; 8:5 ; 14:1 ; Psalm 103:13 ; Jer 3:22 ; 31:20 ; Hosea 11:1-4 ; Mal 3:17
http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/fatherhood-of-god.html

 

[smaller]

Unity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) means the fact or state of being one in agreement or in harmony as one Lord (God), one faith Jesus) and one baptism (Holy Spirit), Ephesians 4:5. It’s all Gods Spirit in agreement with each action his Spirit performs or commands of us as we are born again by His word and Spirit, John 3:5. It’s all Gods Spirit manifested in three different forms for the purpose of his ministry. God can take on many different forms for us to hear him speak to us and bring us into that unity that is one spirit.

Brings up a good point. Who exactly spoke from the dumb (***) donkey.

The donkey or the Holy Spirit?

2 Peter 2:16
But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

That donkey spoke the truth of God. And here we'll sit, wondering who was doing what? Was it the donkey's freewill? Was it something else?

Num. 22:
28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, What have I done to you that you should strike me these three times?
29 And Balaam said to the donkey, Because you have ridiculed and provoked me! I wish there were a sword in my hand, for now I would kill you!
30 And the donkey said to Balaam, Am not I your donkey, upon which you have ridden all your life long until this day? Was I ever accustomed to do so to you? And he said, No.

Is that what the DONKEY really thought? Or was it only the Lord speaking?

Are we now to add this factor into our understandings of the Trinity? Probably not. But I do appreciate what happened, if for nothing else, comic relief from Above.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi smaller,
The donkey, the burning bush, the two man who came and spoke to Lot. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all forms of Gods spirit speaking to us. We need to remember God has no physical form, but can take on any form He deems necessary so we can hear His voice. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all Alpha and Omega with no beginning and no end.

 

[GodsGrace]

I had never thought much about this until Nehemia Gordon mentioned it in one of his youtube videos. He was raised Orthodox Jew to be a rabbi and comes from a long line of rabbis. He is now a Karaite Jew. He said he had never heard of God as his Father until he read Hebrew Matthew. But then he looked again and there is was, he just had been blind to it. So then I looked harder.
Fatherhood of God Throughout the Bible we find God portrayed as a Father. This portrayal, however, is surprisingly rare in the Old Testament. There God is specifically called the Father of the nation of Israel ( Deut 32:6 ; Isa 63:16 ; [twice] 64:8 ; Jeremiah 3:4 Jeremiah 3:19 ; 31:9 ; Mal 1:6 ; 2:10 ) or the Father of certain individuals ( 2 Sam 7:14 ; 1 Chron 17:13 ; 22:10 ; 28:6 ; Psalm 68:5 ; 89:26 ) only fifteen times. (At times the father imagery is present although the term "Father" is not used [ Exod 4:22-23 ; Deut 1:31 ; 8:5 ; 14:1 ; Psalm 103:13 ; Jer 3:22 ; 31:20 ; Hosea 11:1-4 ; Mal 3:17
http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/fatherhood-of-god.html

Hi Deborah

This is taught along with The Lord's Prayer or the Our Father. (the fact that God is never referred to as "father" in the O.T.)

God is never mentioned in the O.T. as a personal Father, the way Jesus taught us to think of Him.
Also, the words "Our" Father are something to study. Since we are children of God, Jesus is our brother. We are to pray to God individually, but we are also to pray to Him as a group, as a family.

We are brought to knowing God in a new way, a new and higher level - we are to have an intimate relationship with Him.
We should feel a tender respect for God as to a father. We should have confidence in Him as we would a father, as a teacher and in His love for us. He is our Father and we are to live as His children.

Wondering

 

[smaller]

Hi smaller,
The donkey, the burning bush, the two man who came and spoke to Lot. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all forms of Gods spirit speaking to us. We need to remember God has no physical form, but can take on any form He deems necessary so we can hear His voice. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all Alpha and Omega with no beginning and no end.

I agree with that sight.

I personally can't say God has ever "audibly" spoken to me. We seem to be very confused, generally speaking, with all the Words we already have in writing to deal with. I left off chasing God speaking to me, directly, a couple plus decades ago when I left the charismatic realm and have been quite content with engaging Word in writing to find ALL understandings first. IF I ever do hear other speakings I'll hope to have some minor basis in recognition if it's legit or not, and maybe even how to respond. In fact I'd probably keep my mouth zipped unless, like Isaiah, I got the hot coal to lip treatment. I no longer think that's necessary. There really is plenty on the record to deal with.

Unlikely, but you never know.

It's kind of amazing to me how what we do have in writing is done with such interesting detailed recall as it's almost all done in retrospect. Truly amazing. A Working of the Spirit, for sure, and not of man.

 

[GodsGrace]

YHVH as the Son became a human (He did it), as the Father YHVH sent Him for this purpose (He did it), and as the Holy Spirit He conceived Him incarnate to make the body happen in the virgins womb (He did it).


So let me ask you? Do you believe Jesus is at least an honest man? You believe He would only tell us the truth? That He would not lie? Then carefully read this statement He made…

John 5:37 Jesus says “And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form.”

Did you get that? Jesus is telling us NO ONE has EVER SEEN the Father or ever HEARD Him…

Now read Exodus 3…YHVH is seen and heard. Did Jesus lie? No! He tells us elsewhere that the Son reveals Him…

6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Who appeared to Him and Spoke? The Angel of the LORD appears yet He is afraid to look upon God. It is YHVH but it was not the Father… But He is YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob

It was YHVH who commanded him to sacrifice Isaac! The Angel of the LORD IS YHVH.

Numbers 22:31-38 The Angel of the Lord meets the prophet Balaam on the road. He allows Balaam to see Him. In verse 38, Balaam identifies the Angel who spoke to him as God.


In Judges 2:1-3And an Angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt (but it was YHVH), and have brought you unto the land which I swore unto your fathers (but it was YHVH); and I said, I will never break my covenant with you (YHVH made the covenant with Israel).

And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.

Judges 6:11–23 The Angel of the Lord appears to Gideon but in verse 14 He refers to himself as God and in verse 21 He allows Gideon to sacrifice to him as to YHVH. Verse 22 shows Gideon fearing for his life because he has seen God.

Judges 13:3–22 The Angel of the Lord appears to Manoah and his wife, they realize in verse 22 they have been dealing with God Himself.

In Genesis 31:11the Angel of God calls out to Jacob in a dream and tells him "I am the God of Bethel" but if you remember when He wrestles with the “Man” at “Peniel” it was God he wrestled with. He even says he had seen God “face to face”.

So this being Who many have seen and heard is undoubtedly YHVH and thus He is God, but not the Father because no one has ever seen or heard the Father at any time (unless Jesus s a liar). The Angel of the LORD is YHVH and He is Christ before He was born as a baby, and He is God…He is YHVH the Savior and there is none else (Isaiah 43:10)

You are correct however when you say JESUS is not the Father! Jesus was born as a baby in Bethlehem as a human But before He came to earth as a human Baby He was God. He became God with us, God incarnate. But YHVH is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. The one and only YHVH is all three and all three are the one God.

Now then there is only ONE YHVH….not two not three….YHVH is the Father, YHVH is the Son, and YHVH is the Spirit (but the Father is not the Son or Spirit, neither is the Son the Father or the Spirit, neither the Spirit the Son or Father)….the Father is the Lord, the Son is the Lord, the Spirit is the Lord, but there are not three Lord’s only one. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God but there are not three God’s only one. God IS the Father and the same one and only God IS the Son, and the same one and only God IS the Spirit.

Hi Brother Paul
Your three page study, which is wonderful, is directed at me and I'm not sure why.
I highlighted in red up there a question you have for me.
Why are you asking?
Did I give the impression I don't think Jesus is God?? Or is this just a rhetorical question to get to your point that I should trust what Jesus says?

John 5:37 and Exodus 3:6 and all the other times God, Yahweh, presented Himself to man was the same. Man could not SEE God. God is spirit. Of course He came to man as an angel, a burning bush, a stranger, even as Jesus, even as the Holy Spirit.

Before Jesus was born in Bethlehem as a baby, He was God, the second person of the Godhead. He always existed, He was generated, not created, one in being with the Father. All three persons are only ONE God. There is only One God, but in three persons. They always existed and were always together.
Each one is God and God is each one.

We'll never understand the Triune God. It's not possible. I THINK I agree with everything you've said, but it's becoming a bit too finite for me. What you say here does confuse me:

So this being Who many have seen and heard is undoubtedly YHVH and thus He is God, but not the Father because no one has ever seen or heard the Father at any time (unless Jesus s a liar). The Angel of the LORD is YHVH and He is Christ before He was born as a baby, and He is God…He is YHVH the Savior and there is none else (Isaiah 43:10)

So Yahweh is not the Father in your understanding? Is Yahweh like a great power and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are part of it?

I believe the early church fathers took care of this problem about 1,700 years ago. Do you believe in the Creed?

Wondering

 

[brother Paul]

So Yahweh is not the Father in your understanding? Is Yahweh like a great power and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are part of it?

I believe the early church fathers took care of this problem about 1,700 years ago. Do you believe in the Creed?

In fact I showed that YHVH is the Father, and IS the Son/Word, and IS the Holy Spirit....one YHVH revealed in three eternally distinct personae...there is only one YHVH and He is each of them! YHVH, the Son/Word is He which is both seen and heard in the Old Testament (made incarnate as Jesus in the New)

 

[brother Paul]

Deleted

 

[brother Paul]

The one God as three, and the three in Unity...or as the Greek of Creed fathers described...one Ousia in three Hypostases....

 

[brother Paul]

You mentioned the Creed. Which of the 3 versions do you adhere to? The 325, 381, or the one from the 6th century (the Roman Catholic edition officiated in 1050 A,D,)?