Bible Study Who of the Godhead Did What In The Old Covenant (Testament)?

[th1b.taylor]

Brother Paul,
The Creeds are very Historical Documents, documenting the evolution of some of the Traditions of men, the very things we are warned to avoid. (Mark 7:7-9) The Creeds, any of them, must never be equated with what God has set to Paper for us, the Bible.

 

[brother Paul]

Brother T I 100% agree....the originals were a summation of what all the churches held in common and were only BASED ON scripture. Likewise the opinions and doctrinal positions of the earliest church fathers CANNOT and SHOULD NOT replace the word of God however they serve as a witness as to what the Apostles and their first generation disciples and appointees were taught these things meant, so they are useful as a witness but hold no authority.

The only reason I asked which version of the Nicene Creed was as a response to whether or not I believed THE Creed....as for Creeds I always liked what is called the Apostle's Creed from the 2nd century but any of the creedS are secondary to what the Holy Spirit speaks to the heart of a faithful, prayerful, student of the word.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Brother T I 100% agree....the originals were a summation of what all the churches held in common and were only BASED ON scripture. Likewise the opinions and doctrinal positions of the earliest church fathers CANNOT and SHOULD NOT replace the word of God however they serve as a witness as to what the Apostles and their first generation disciples and appointees were taught these things meant, so they are useful as a witness but hold no authority.

The only reason I asked which version of the Nicene Creed was as a response to whether or not I believed THE Creed....as for Creeds I always liked what is called the Apostle's Creed from the 2nd century but any of the creedS are secondary to what the Holy Spirit speaks to the heart of a faithful, prayerful, student of the word.

I have a differce on this. The Apostle's Creed is as close to what the Church, there honestly is only one Church, was taught by Jesus to believe but anything from the fourth century I cannot deal with, at all.

I keep remembering a test my favorite Jonior High teacher did with us. I have done the same test many times since to illustrate this point about believing anything other than the Bible for structured belief. She lined up ten people and she handed the first a written note to read in a whisper to the second person and then one by one they whispered to the next person and that one sentence of about fifteen words was then written on the Black Board. The two sentences were nothing simular with the telling of ten people.

And excuse me while I over work this in the interest of new Christians and young readers. The above paragraph has no reflection on the scriptures in any manor. First and formost, the Bible is tyhe perfect and complete Word of God and (Duet. 4:2 and Rev. 22:19) God will not permit the scriptures to be played with. In addition to this, it is a lie that the scriptures were oral tradition before the Dead Sea Scroll Period.

God wrote the Ten Commandments on the stone for Moses and King David is mentioned on a stone from one of the enemy kings and even Motheir writtings. Nuff said.ses had the finest education money could buy while the sons of Jacob were captive in Egypt. I do not believe the Israelis spent four hundred years in Egypt and only Moses lerned to read, even

 

[GodsGrace]

So Yahweh is not the Father in your understanding? Is Yahweh like a great power and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are part of it?

I believe the early church fathers took care of this problem about 1,700 years ago. Do you believe in the Creed?

In fact I showed that YHVH is the Father, and IS the Son/Word, and IS the Holy Spirit....one YHVH revealed in three eternally distinct personae...there is only one YHVH and He is each of them! YHVH, the Son/Word is He which is both seen and heard in the Old Testament (made incarnate as Jesus in the New)

Okay. Sounds good. It was the wording in post 76 that sounded a little different.

W

 

[GodsGrace]

You mentioned the Creed. Which of the 3 versions do you adhere to? The 325, 381, or the one from the 6th century (the Roman Catholic edition officiated in 1050 A,D,)?

Hi Brother Paul,
You mention 3 versions of the Creed in your question. One from the 6th century and officiated in 1050.
You sent me running to Professor Google and I cannot find the third one you mention.

There's the one from Nicaea 325
Constantinople 381
Ephesus 431 This might be your third one
Then there's the Apostle's Creed - oldest, don't have the date right now.

The one most used to my knowledge is Constant 381.
It happens to be the one I like most because it explains everything in more detail. But any one is okay with me. The Apostle's Creed mentions Jesus going down to hell and I know this presents a problem for some churches. Nothing new in the one from 431.

I'm sure you know that the creeds were written to clarify the Christian beliefs from the earliest times after Jesus ascended. They were specifically to clarify heresies that were circulating and to clarify beliefs. One of the heresies might be arianism but don't hold me to that. More than anything else they were to clarify Jesus' role, Who He is. Some were saying he was not God or that He was divine in some way or had come into existence specifically for salvation purposes and did not exist before. I must say, that I thought we were over all that. In fact, I'd say from reading some posts, that we might be able to use some further clarification!
But we'll never understand the Godhead, so we could stop with these creeds I guess.

I'll just add that I think the words Godhead, Triune and Trinity should mean something very specific and we shouldn't change the meaning to how we individually understand the terms. Maybe how some churches or individuals understand the Godhead has something to do with being in line with other doctrine - but I wouldn't know about this.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

Brother Paul,
Wait. You said which Creed do I adhere to. Does this mean you see a difference in each one??

W

 

[GodsGrace]

I have a differce on this. The Apostle's Creed is as close to what the Church, there honestly is only one Church, was taught by Jesus to believe but anything from the fourth century I cannot deal with, at all.

I keep remembering a test my favorite Jonior High teacher did with us. I have done the same test many times since to illustrate this point about believing anything other than the Bible for structured belief. She lined up ten people and she handed the first a written note to read in a whisper to the second person and then one by one they whispered to the next person and that one sentence of about fifteen words was then written on the Black Board. The two sentences were nothing simular with the telling of ten people.

And excuse me while I over work this in the interest of new Christians and young readers. The above paragraph has no reflection on the scriptures in any manor. First and formost, the Bible is tyhe perfect and complete Word of God and (Duet. 4:2 and Rev. 22:19) God will not permit the scriptures to be played with. In addition to this, it is a lie that the scriptures were oral tradition before the Dead Sea Scroll Period.

God wrote the Ten Commandments on the stone for Moses and King David is mentioned on a stone from one of the enemy kings and even Motheir writtings. Nuff said.ses had the finest education money could buy while the sons of Jacob were captive in Egypt. I do not believe the Israelis spent four hundred years in Egypt and only Moses lerned to read, even

Hi Taylor,
I highlighted a sentence of yours in the first paragraph.

I know about the Junior High School Teacher's trick. So are you saying that from the 4th century on man fiddled around with the Word of God too much? How's that music sounding to you?

Gosh Taylor, haven't you heard of "progressive revelation?!"
2

Wondering

 

[th1b.taylor]

So are you saying that from the 4th century on man fiddled around with the Word of God too much? How's that music sounding to you?

No mam, the word of God was Canonized before the Catholic Church ever began to play with their idea of running the Canon by Church Structure such at Antioch, Lystra and such and I am saying the Creeds are not the Word of God, a.k.a. the Bible.

Gosh Taylor, haven't you heard of "progressive revelation?!"

Yes mam and I believe in it. Through the continued instruction by the Holy Spirit, not to be confused with the Jim Jones' and David Koreshes of the world, he is constantly revaling what we need through our private studies at His feet. But that means becoming as one of the Berians and testing any teaching against our Bibles.

 

[GodsGrace]

No mam, the word of God was Canonized before the Catholic Church ever began to play with their idea of running the Canon by Church Structure such at Antioch, Lystra and such and I am saying the Creeds are not the Word of God, a.k.a. the Bible.


Yes mam and I believe in it. Through the continued instruction by the Holy Spirit, not to be confused with the Jim Jones' and David Koreshes of the world, he is constantly revaling what we need through our private studies at His feet. But that means becoming as one of the Berians and testing any teaching against our Bibles.

AHA! Private studies and private revelation. OKAY.
But what about NEW revelation a church decides to impose that may NOT be scriptural?
And the explanation is "progressive revelation."
I'm sure you don't agree with that --

What does "becoming one of the Berians" mean?

But for now -

Good Night
Wondering

 

[th1b.taylor]

AHA! Private studies and private revelation. OKAY.
But what about NEW revelation a church decides to impose that may NOT be scriptural?
And the explanation is "progressive revelation."
I'm sure you don't agree with that --

What does "becoming one of the Berians" mean?

But for now -

Good Night
Wondering

You are absolutely correct. Being full blooded Texan I like to turn a word here or there as we are prone to do. But anyway, I like to tell folks that I stand flat footed on the Holy Word of God and having marched in the Army for eight years, all, absolutely any part of my feet that are on the bottom touches the surface, any surface, all of both of them is on that surface and the only arch I have on my feet is when I force them into cowboy boots. So I do stand pa on what the NASB or as you call it, the NAS says.

You being born a New Yorker and having residence in Italy will know without any explanation when I say the NAS is as close to a word for word English translation as is possible and that is why I have chosen this version over my more poetic KJV. And if a tradition or an idea or thought is not covered in the Completed Word of God and you do or teach it in my Church Family I will stand up in the middle of their sermon or class and point out their error and demand discussion including scripture.

See how long winded and slow talking we are in Texas? When I visited New York city, somebody laughed every time I spoke, they loved me but they could not help but laugh.

 

[brother Paul]

Brother Paul,
Wait. You said which Creed do I adhere to. Does this mean you see a difference in each one??

W

There are additions in each one. The filoque was not officiated until 1014-1050 by the Popes and was rejected by Orthodoxy (the other half of Christianity)...
..

 

[GodsGrace]

There are additions in each one. The filoque was not officiated until 1014-1050 by the Popes and was rejected by Orthodoxy (the other half of Christianity)...
..

I see it as additions too, but there is that one line about Jesus going to hell that was removed.
The creeds are biblically based so I guess it's referring to 1 Peter 3:18-20
Funny, when I was little, about 10/12 I thought I understood that part of the Apostle's Creed.
Now I'm big and I'm always confused about 1 Peter. Sometimes the more you learn, the less you know.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

You are absolutely correct. Being full blooded Texan I like to turn a word here or there as we are prone to do. But anyway, I like to tell folks that I stand flat footed on the Holy Word of God and having marched in the Army for eight years, all, absolutely any part of my feet that are on the bottom touches the surface, any surface, all of both of them is on that surface and the only arch I have on my feet is when I force them into cowboy boots. So I do stand pa on what the NASB or as you call it, the NAS says.

You being born a New Yorker and having residence in Italy will know without any explanation when I say the NAS is as close to a word for word English translation as is possible and that is why I have chosen this version over my more poetic KJV. And if a tradition or an idea or thought is not covered in the Completed Word of God and you do or teach it in my Church Family I will stand up in the middle of their sermon or class and point out their error and demand discussion including scripture.

See how long winded and slow talking we are in Texas? When I visited New York city, somebody laughed every time I spoke, they loved me but they could not help but laugh.

Good morning,

Yeah. The NASB is the best. When there's a question over a word in scripture I look it up in Young's Literal Translation from the Greek. Because each bible version takes a little bit of liberty with their particular views and beliefs. Young's doesn't do this. So, yeah, the NAS is always the truest and most accurate. It even uses brackets for verses that MIGHT have been added or are not in all manuscripts. For instance, check out Mathew 18:11 At least you know it's not in some old manuscripts. Sometimes it's not important and sometimes it is for when we want to get nit picking...Something I don't personally like to do, I like looking at the big picture.

NY. New Yorkers are nice. They're friendly. (not all of course). Some don't believe this. They do move fast though. It took me about 2 years to get used to the pace over here. I'd get a lot done in one morning over in Queens. Here it was one thing for each morning. Sales people stop and talk to you - ask how your family is - what's going on with the grandchildren. It would take forever! We were upset at the beginning but learned to enjoy it. What are we rushing for anyway?

Wondering

 

[th1b.taylor]

Good morning,

Yeah. The NASB is the best. When there's a question over a word in scripture I look it up in Young's Literal Translation from the Greek. Because each bible version takes a little bit of liberty with their particular views and beliefs. Young's doesn't do this. So, yeah, the NAS is always the truest and most accurate. It even uses brackets for verses that MIGHT have been added or are not in all manuscripts. For instance, check out Mathew 18:11 At least you know it's not in some old manuscripts. Sometimes it's not important and sometimes it is for when we want to get nit picking...Something I don't personally like to do, I like looking at the big picture.

NY. New Yorkers are nice. They're friendly. (not all of course). Some don't believe this. They do move fast though. It took me about 2 years to get used to the pace over here. I'd get a lot done in one morning over in Queens. Here it was one thing for each morning. Sales people stop and talk to you - ask how your family is - what's going on with the grandchildren. It would take forever! We were upset at the beginning but learned to enjoy it. What are we rushing for anyway?

Wondering

When the Air Mobile (Helicopter Cavalry) Concept was being tested at Ft. Benning, Georgia I was a member of the Eleventh (later the first Cavalry) and we did a maneuver Upstate in Watertown, NY. Except for the funny speech, they were just like Texans and my off hours were a blast.

 

[GodsGrace]

When the Air Mobile (Helicopter Cavalry) Concept was being tested at Ft. Benning, Georgia I was a member of the Eleventh (later the first Cavalry) and we did a maneuver Upstate in Watertown, NY. Except for the funny speech, they were just like Texans and my off hours were a blast.

Here's some Italian Bill -
Tutto il mondo el' paese
It means that the whole world is like a big town OR
in every town there's something familiar to you.

I know the area - used to have relatives in Little Falls.
THEY had the funny speech!!


Wondering