Mungo
Member
That is just silly. You are twisting and turning to avoid what scripture says.
As said above:
I'm not aware that there are outstanding questions.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Why did Jesus say "I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God."?
That is just silly. You are twisting and turning to avoid what scripture says.
I'm not aware that there are outstanding questions.
Walpole
Member
[/QUOTE]
Again, if you are correct, then Jesus should have said, "It is ALMOST finished" as again, He had not yet died when He said those words.
This is quite a shocking admission. Our Blessed Lord always included the resurrection when describing His passion. For example...
"The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, AND the third day rise again." (Luke 24:7)
This is why St. Paul says the resurrection is the Gospel...
"Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel.” (2 Tim 2:8)
Furthermore, St. Paul says if Christ had not risen, you would not be justified and are therefore still be in your sins. Ergo the resurrection IS part of the plan of salvation...
"Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification."(Romans 4:25)
"And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." (1 Cor 15:17)
As I have previously written, "It is finished" completes what began the evening before in the Upper Room.
Hi Walpole
I will set out for you exactly what I set out for Mungo the same challenge. If you think I'm wrong in my understanding, then allow us all to peruse your proposal for the intent of the Lord's words. I'm all ears. I wait with bated breath to find out what it is that you believe that Jesus was inferencing what he spoke those words..."It is finished."
I've read through the Scriptures a number of times and I can clearly see the plan that God began to bring to reality on the day that He called Abram. It was a plan, my friend. God called Abraham and set his foot on a path to build a nation. A nation of people who were raised up by God for the very purpose of doing His bidding upon the earth. They wrote the Scriptures. Even Paul alludes that the writing of the Scriptures was one of the greatest efforts that Israel was given to accomplish. Those Scriptures tell us all about 'who' God is. What His 'plan' is for mankind living upon the earth. They also tell us about a Messiah, a Savior, who would come to provide forgiveness for sin. After the 'part' of the plan of writing down all of the Scriptures was completed, there was a period of about 400 years when God was silent. Allowing all that He had told us to sink in and be understood. But man's heart is wicked. Who can know it? The Jews didn't understand, and yet God used them to accomplish the fulfillment of God's plan. Even Jesus said that he had come to fulfill the law. He was going to complete the law!
He did!! He did it by providing the necessary blood sacrifice for sin and when he shed his blood on the ground at Golgotha, the plan of salvation that God had begun working out in His calling to Abraham was finished. It was done! Praise God!! 'It' was finished!!
When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
According to John's writing, it was within mere moments, with Jesus' blood soaking into that wooden upright beam and running down into the earth, from the time that Jesus spoke those words and then died. 'It' was finished!!
Again, I'm all ears. Tell me your understanding of Jesus' words. Or do you rather not have any understanding of what Jesus was referring to as 'it' in his declaration? If that's the case, then my explanation is certainly as good as anyone has put out so far.
God bless,
Ted
No, I contend that Jesus knew it was finished and God knew that it was finished. We can certainly debate whether or not Jesus should have, could have, or would have said his words differently, but, according to the account found in the Scriptures...he didn't.
I will set out for you exactly what I set out for Mungo the same challenge. If you think I'm wrong in my understanding, then allow us all to peruse your proposal for the intent of the Lord's words. I'm all ears. I wait with bated breath to find out what it is that you believe that Jesus was inferencing what he spoke those words..."It is finished."
I've read through the Scriptures a number of times and I can clearly see the plan that God began to bring to reality on the day that He called Abram. It was a plan, my friend. God called Abraham and set his foot on a path to build a nation. A nation of people who were raised up by God for the very purpose of doing His bidding upon the earth. They wrote the Scriptures. Even Paul alludes that the writing of the Scriptures was one of the greatest efforts that Israel was given to accomplish. Those Scriptures tell us all about 'who' God is. What His 'plan' is for mankind living upon the earth. They also tell us about a Messiah, a Savior, who would come to provide forgiveness for sin. After the 'part' of the plan of writing down all of the Scriptures was completed, there was a period of about 400 years when God was silent. Allowing all that He had told us to sink in and be understood. But man's heart is wicked. Who can know it? The Jews didn't understand, and yet God used them to accomplish the fulfillment of God's plan. Even Jesus said that he had come to fulfill the law. He was going to complete the law!
He did!! He did it by providing the necessary blood sacrifice for sin and when he shed his blood on the ground at Golgotha, the plan of salvation that God had begun working out in His calling to Abraham was finished. It was done! Praise God!! 'It' was finished!!
When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
According to John's writing, it was within mere moments, with Jesus' blood soaking into that wooden upright beam and running down into the earth, from the time that Jesus spoke those words and then died. 'It' was finished!!
Again, I'm all ears. Tell me your understanding of Jesus' words. Or do you rather not have any understanding of what Jesus was referring to as 'it' in his declaration? If that's the case, then my explanation is certainly as good as anyone has put out so far.
God bless,
Ted
Mungo
Member
I gave you my proposal in a short form in post #7 and a long version in post #29 and you failed to address either of them.
All we get from you is your opinions on what you think.
Jesus did the work in the three years of his ministry, and now it was the plots of the Jews and the works of the Romans who finished it.
Or are you expecting Jesus to hammer the nails into his own hands and set the cross upright in place? As Jesus said, his work was finished.
.
Mungo
Member
Jesus' work wasn't finished on the cross - see post#13
And he didn't say his work was finished.
We are not to forget that the OP said this part of the gospel.
No question was asked about the whole gospel.
It may work for good that the whole gospel is being dealt with. The whole gospel needs to be continually presented.
Especially?:
The Fathers part
The Sons part
The Holy Spirits part
Jesus was IMHO covering His part on earth. Was there more to be done? Sure. For instance the second Adam had to become a quickening spirit.
But
That is beyond the OP ( this part of the gospel)?
Between the Title and the OP there may be ties to be discussed, but …..
Mississippi redneck
eddif
You are absolutely on target.Hi Jesussaves1111 and welcome to CF
You can not put new wine into old wine skins as they wear out and the new wine leaks out. It won't be until we receive our new glorified bodies (new wine skins) that are incorruptible and immortal, 1Corinthians 15:51- 57 that we will then be gathered to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb in the New Jerusalem, Matthew 9:17; Revelation 19:6-10.
I had never seen the parallel to Jesus fresh out of the grave. He was not to be touched till he visited the Father and was restored to his previous position. This is way deeper than I can explain now. Thomas could touch him a little later
( I suppose after a trip to the Father)
So
It ties to the thoughts on drinking wine later.
John 20:17 kjv
17. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
So the concept is:
One thing is completed before another action can happen.
Step by step.
If we complicate things too much (I feel guilty here), then our mind goes into overload.
Reminds me of telegraph messages.
Coming to Dodge STOP
Bringing payroll Stop
Meet me with guards Stop …….
The pauses have a purpose in understating the process. Knowing the full story now (we) want to dash on to the next step.
But
Others are just learning the story for the first time, and the pause about the wine is like the stop in a long message.
We need that new skin / vessel change.
(Before)
We get the new wine.
Bout as clear as mud? LOL
eddif
You would think I would shut up.
Eat a meal Stop Digest Stop Eat another meal for coming work Stop
…….
Read a passage Stop meditate on passage Stop go on to next Context Stop
Now
Understand concept in one context
Stop
Cary concept to another context area
Stop
Meditate to parallel new context area to old context area if possible. Stop
The OP
Was about one area. After covering the area, a new thread might be in order.
Or.
eddif needs to leave Dodge, now that point is made.
eddif
Eat a meal Stop Digest Stop Eat another meal for coming work Stop
…….
Read a passage Stop meditate on passage Stop go on to next Context Stop
Now
Understand concept in one context
Stop
Cary concept to another context area
Stop
Meditate to parallel new context area to old context area if possible. Stop
The OP
Was about one area. After covering the area, a new thread might be in order.
Or.
eddif needs to leave Dodge, now that point is made.
eddif
Do you think Jesus went back into heaven; with His work incomplete? The work Jesus came to do on earth was finished and that is what he said. We know he went on to do more and is currently preparing a place for us, but his work on earth was finished. Jesus said it, and to say otherwise is to say a dreadful thing.
John 4:34 NKJV Jesus saith unto them; My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. On the cross, he said, "It is FINISHED" (John 19:30)
John 17:4 NKJV I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
John 19:28-30 NRSV
(28) After this, when Jesus knew that all was now finished, he said (to fulfil the scripture), "I am thirsty."
(29) A jar full of sour wine was standing there. So they put a sponge full of the wine on a branch of hyssop and held it to his mouth.
(30) When Jesus had received the wine, he said, "It is finished." Then he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
John 19:23-24 NRSV
(23) When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took his clothes and divided them into four parts, one for each soldier. They also took his tunic; now the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from the top.
(24) So they said to one another, "Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it to see who will get it." This was to fulfil what the scripture says, "They divided my clothes among themselves, and for my clothing they cast lots."
John 19:28-37 NRSV
(28) After this, when Jesus knew that all was now finished, he said (to fulfil the scripture), "I am thirsty."
(29) A jar full of sour wine was standing there. So they put a sponge full of the wine on a branch of hyssop and held it to his mouth.
(30) When Jesus had received the wine, he said, "It is finished." Then he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
(31) Since it was the day of Preparation, the Jews did not want the bodies left on the cross during the sabbath, especially because that sabbath was a day of great solemnity. So they asked Pilate to have the legs of the crucified men broken and the bodies removed.
(32) Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and the other who had been crucified with him.
(33) But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
(34) Instead, one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once blood and water came out.
(35) (He who saw this has testified so that you also may believe. His testimony is true, and he knows that he tells the truth.)
(36) These things occurred so that the scripture might be fulfilled, "None of his bones shall be broken."
(37) And again another passage of scripture says, "They will look on the one whom they have pierced."
Mat 27:27-31 NRSV
(27) Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the governor's headquarters, and they gathered the whole cohort around him.
(28) They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him,
(29) and after twisting some thorns into a crown, they put it on his head. They put a reed in his right hand and knelt before him and mocked him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!"
[Isa 53:3 NRSV Prophesy fulfilled. "It is FINISHED"
He was despised and rejected by others; a man of suffering and acquainted with infirmity; and as one from whom others hide their faces he was despised, and we held him of no account.]
(30) They spat on him, took the reed and struck him on the head.
(31) After mocking him, they stripped him of the robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him away to crucify him.
Jesus fulfilled prophesy his work on earth was done and it was FINISHED.
(Psa 69:21 NRSV) They gave me poison for food, and for my thirst, they gave me vinegar to drink.
Isa 53:3-12 NRSV
(3) He was despised and rejected by others; a man of suffering and acquainted with infirmity, and as one from whom others hide their faces he was despised, and we held him of no account.
(4) Surely he has borne our infirmities and carried our diseases; yet we accounted him stricken, struck down by God, and afflicted.
(5) But he was wounded for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the punishment that made us whole, and by his bruises, we are healed.
(6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have all turned to our own way, and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
(7) He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
(8) By a perversion of justice he was taken away. Who could have imagined his future? For he was cut off from the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people.
(9) They made his grave with the wicked and his tomb with the rich, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.
(10) Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him with pain. When you make his life an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, and shall prolong his days; through him, the will of the LORD shall prosper.
(11) Out of his anguish he shall see light; he shall find satisfaction through his knowledge. The righteous one, my servant, shall make many righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.
(12) Therefore I will allot him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out himself to death, and was numbered with the transgressors, yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. Jesus finished it the work he came to do.
John 19:30 Jesus said, "it is finished"
that is, the whole will of God; as that he should be incarnate, be exposed to shame and reproach, and suffer much, and die; the whole work his Father gave him to do, which was to preach the Gospel, work miracles, and obtain eternal salvation for his people, all which were now done, or as good as done; the whole righteousness of the law was fulfilled, an holy nature assumed, perfect obedience yielded to it, and the penalty of death endured; hence a perfect righteousness was finished agreeably to the law, which was magnified and made honourable by it, and redemption from its curse and condemnation secured; sin was made an end of, full atonement and satisfaction for it were given; complete pardon procured, peace made, and redemption from all iniquity obtained; all enemies were conquered; all types, promises, and prophecies were fulfilled, and his own course of life ended: the reason of his saying so was, because all this was near being done, just upon finishing, and was as good as done; and was sure and certain, and so complete, that nothing need, or could be added to it; and it was done entirely without the help of man, and cannot be undone; all which since has more clearly appeared by Christ's resurrection from the dead, his entrance into heaven, his session at God's right hand, the declaration of the Gospel, and the application of salvation to particular persons: (John Gill)
Jesus finished it all.
Last edited:
Hi Cooper
I can agree with your position that the 'it' could well intend just the part that Jesus had to accomplish in our salvation and his purpose for coming to us. He did come to us to accomplish his Father's purpose. He was to give us his testimony of the Father and he was the one to fulfill the law, as he himself said. Then he was to lay down his life as a ransom for many. That part of God's plan of salvation was also completed when Jesus spoke those last words.
However, I tend to lean more to the accomplishment of the entire plan, beginning with God's call to Abraham, because from the time that Jesus accomplished all that he did to complete the entire plan, the focus of God moved from just dealing with Israel to bringing in also the gentiles. So, once the entire plan was completed, there was even a difference in God's focus on 'who' could be saved. There were a lot of changes after Jesus left us. The disciples, rather unlike the Jews who had always been pretty much focused on just themselves as God's people, took the message of God's loving kindness and salvation to the whole world. Even as Isaiah had declared as the words of God in his writing that the servant's sacrifice was too much for just Israel, but would be also for the gentiles. It was at the point of Jesus' death that the opening of the knowledge of God and His care and concern for the entire world was made known and preached.
So, this says to me that Jesus finished more than just the work of his life in God's plan, but also finished the entire plan. It was now time to go and make disciples. Baptizing them and then teaching them all that he had commanded them. Never before had God put any emphasis on His people gaining the whole world. In fact, the Jews seemed to be raised up and given a fairly strict law that would keep them separate from the rest of the world, more than an opportunity for them to assimilate into the whole world. God did, several times, command that the Israelites not intermarry with gentiles. Their dietary laws, still today, keep Jews from assimilating with gentile culture. There is no command throughout the entire old covenant where God expressly told the Jews to go out and tell the world about Him.
God bless,
Ted
I can agree with your position that the 'it' could well intend just the part that Jesus had to accomplish in our salvation and his purpose for coming to us. He did come to us to accomplish his Father's purpose. He was to give us his testimony of the Father and he was the one to fulfill the law, as he himself said. Then he was to lay down his life as a ransom for many. That part of God's plan of salvation was also completed when Jesus spoke those last words.
However, I tend to lean more to the accomplishment of the entire plan, beginning with God's call to Abraham, because from the time that Jesus accomplished all that he did to complete the entire plan, the focus of God moved from just dealing with Israel to bringing in also the gentiles. So, once the entire plan was completed, there was even a difference in God's focus on 'who' could be saved. There were a lot of changes after Jesus left us. The disciples, rather unlike the Jews who had always been pretty much focused on just themselves as God's people, took the message of God's loving kindness and salvation to the whole world. Even as Isaiah had declared as the words of God in his writing that the servant's sacrifice was too much for just Israel, but would be also for the gentiles. It was at the point of Jesus' death that the opening of the knowledge of God and His care and concern for the entire world was made known and preached.
So, this says to me that Jesus finished more than just the work of his life in God's plan, but also finished the entire plan. It was now time to go and make disciples. Baptizing them and then teaching them all that he had commanded them. Never before had God put any emphasis on His people gaining the whole world. In fact, the Jews seemed to be raised up and given a fairly strict law that would keep them separate from the rest of the world, more than an opportunity for them to assimilate into the whole world. God did, several times, command that the Israelites not intermarry with gentiles. Their dietary laws, still today, keep Jews from assimilating with gentile culture. There is no command throughout the entire old covenant where God expressly told the Jews to go out and tell the world about Him.
God bless,
Ted
First we need to establish what we think Jesus meant by “kingdom”. Earlier jesus had said this..
Mat 16:18,19 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Jesus clearly ties the Church that He would build to the “kingdom“. When did he build his church/kingdom?
On Pentecost. This was the first gospel message post resurrection that taught the death burial and resurection.
In acts 2:47 we are told that the lord then added to the church those who were saved.
What does the body of Christ or the church come together to do on the first day of the week? Partake in the lords supper. The unleavened bread and fruit of the vine.
Jesus had also said….
Mat 18:20. For where two or three are gathered together in my name,(by his authority) there am I in the midst of them.
This is what I think Jesus meant in the passages above. When the church comes together to partake of the lords supper on the first day of the week, just as Jesus had prescribed, then he is there in their midst partaking with the saints . So, if you are not a part of the body of Christ/church then he will not be partaking with you. You will not be in communion with the lord. And if you are a part of the lords church and you do not meet with the saints on the first day of the week to partake then you are missing out on this special occasion.
And people say….”the church dont matter”. I submit that one cannot commune with the Lord UNLESS they are a part of the church/kingdom jesus built beginning on Pentecost.
I think the "why" was for the sake of His disciples. He was speaking to them of His impending departure.
Some things really didn't sink in until after He had risen. Then they fully understood.
but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”
Some things really didn't sink in until after He had risen. Then they fully understood.
but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”
Amen brother. Old and new can not mix.
Jesus was the end of the Law. Salvation has always been there for those who in faith believe. I am sorry you seem to think the 'IT' was only for today. Salvation for those who believe, follow and obey God has always been there. The patriarchs were saved by faith. Remember Jesus is the I AM, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. Jesus was there right from day one. He was the creator, the Word of John 1:1. The 'IT' will be the ritualistic sacrifice of animals that he ended for all time. That does not save anyway, like I said it is faith in God that saves and that is true from the beginning of time if we obey.
The pattern of salvation in the Old Testament is exactly the same as in the New Testament salvation. Here we have it. Gen. 15:6, "Abraham believed God, and God imputed it to him for righteousness." Imputed righteousness means that God's Justice has been satisfied. This verse is found in the context of Rom. 4:1-4.
Comments:
1. There never was a time, and there never will be a time when God is not saving mankind. Rom. 10:13; 2 Pet. 3:9
2. The Gospel was clearly declared in Old Testament times. Rom. 1:1-4; I Cor. 15:3-4; Acts 3:18. The passage in Isa. 53:5,6 has exactly the same boundaries as are found in I Cor. 15:3. Dan. 12:2,3 has the boundary of the resurrection.
3. Regardless of age or dispensation, man is always saved in the same manner - positive volition to the Gospel expressed in a non-meritorious way, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 4:12; Gal. 3:6-8
4. Positive volition existed in Old Testament times, both at the point of God consciousness and the point of Gospel hearing. Ex. 33:7; Gen. 15:6
5. While revelation from God is progressive, reaching its peak with the New Testament scriptures, it has always been, nevertheless, sufficient for salvation of souls at all periods of time.
6. The object of faith in salvation is the Lord Jesus Christ, Gal. 3:26. However, the revelation concerning Christ varies in different ages.
7. Jesus Christ was first revealed as Saviour at the time of man's fall, Gen. 3:15. He is represented as the "seed of the woman".
8. Jesus Christ is usually revealed in the Old Testament by "shadows". For example, in the Tabernacle, in the feasts, in the modus operandi of the Levitical priests.
Another means of revealing Christ was through "inanimate revelation", that is, through things in nature like the burning bush, the Rock, the Shekinah Glory, or through the typology of the furniture in the Tabernacle (Num. 17:7). The Mercy Seat, the hilasterion, was the place of propitiation in the Holy of Holies.
The Levitical offerings were "witnessing by ritual". The burnt offerings taught propitiation, with emphasis on the word of Christ, the Lamb of God. The meal and fruit offerings revealed the Person of Christ on the cross. The peace offering taught about the barrier between God and man being removed.
The gospel was presented in the Old Testament directly in theological teaching. Isa. 53 was straight doctrinal teaching which showed that Christ carried our guilt as well as our sins.
9. Once the reality is come, we have the New Testament, which is historical Christology.
10. According to Isa. 55:6, salvation in the person of Jesus Christ, is always available. Acts. 4:12.
11. Many conversions are recorded in the Old Testament, including:
Noah was declared "just" in Gen. 6:8,9, and was said to have righteousness in Heb. 11:7. Heb. 11 shows the spiritual life of OT believers. The OT imputation of righteousness is seen in Psalm 24:5 and Isa. 61:10.
For Abraham, compare Gen. 15:6 with Rom. 4:1-4
Job gave perfect testimony to salvation in Gospel form -- death, burial, and resurrection. Job. 19:23-27.
Many Gentiles were saved in the Old Testament. The citizens of Nineveh responded to the Gospel when Jonah preached to them. Matt. 12:41; Luke 11:32. See also Rom. 9:24,25; 9:30-33. See Daniel regarding the salvation of Nebuchadnezzar.
.
Last edited:
Mungo
Member
According to you lot's of things finished at different times.
Let's take John 17:4
According to that Jesus finished the work he had to do at the Last Supper.
So why did he go to the cross and die?
Walpole
Member
But I've shown you that even if you contend He is referring to the Passion, it was not finished, as He had not yet died nor resurrected. Even if His death was immanent, His resurrection was not.
"The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, AND the third day rise again." (Luke 24:7)
"Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification."(Romans 4:25)
"And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." (1 Cor 15:17)
Ergo, "It is finished" must refer to something which had already begun, and which truly finished when He spoke those words.
I have explained what He meant now multiple times. Rather than re-type it again, here are the links where I have explained it:
Here ---> https://christianforums.net/threads...-new-in-the-kingdom-of-god.91863/post-1690182
Here in a previous thread ---> https://christianforums.net/threads/it-is-finished.78719/post-1503251
Here in yet another thread ---> https://christianforums.net/threads/the-atonement-what-did-it-really-accomplish.86616/post-1627011
You cannot understand what happened on Good Friday without the narrative in which it began the night before in the Upper Room.
“I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”
a. I have glorified You on the earth: Jesus did not wait until His work on the cross to glorify God the Father. His entire life glorified God on the earth.
i. Jesus glorified the Father throughout His whole life, from His circumcision and dedication at the temple (Luk_2:21-23) through His quiet years of obedience in Nazareth (Mat_2:23; Mat_13:55).
ii. Jesus glorified the Father through His faith, obedience, and work through the years of His earthly ministry. Every sermon preached, every blind or sick person healed, every bit of instruction and training for the disciples, every confrontation with the corrupt religious leaders, every question answered, every loving touch - they all glorified God the Father.
b. I have finished the work: Jesus, with divine confidence and assurance, saw the work on the cross as already finished. There was (of course) a sense in which the work was not finished; but since Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev_13:8), there is a greater sense in which the work was already finished, completed in the heart and mind of God. Now it just had to be done.
“There is a quiet recognition that Jesus has completed His task adequately, and brought glory to the Father in the process.” (Morris)
c. Glorify Me together with Yourself: Jesus asked the Father to glorify Him, but with the same glory that the Father Himself has. Jesus’ prayer was in no way an expression of independence, but of utter and continued dependence upon God the Father.
i. There are many men who cry out “glorify me,” and sometimes they even direct the cry to God under a more spiritual terminology. Yet their cry “glorify me” is almost always completely different than Jesus prayer, “Glorify Me together with Yourself” and the difference is normally between dependence and independence.
d. With the glory which I had with You before the world was: Jesus was aware of His pre-existence, and of the nature of that pre-existence. Jesus understood there was a time in eternity past when God the Son and God the Father enjoyed a shared glory.
i. Jesus could not truthfully or sanely pray this if He were not Yahweh Himself, equal with God the Father. In Isa_42:8; Isa_48:11, Yahweh proclaimed that He shares His glory with no one. If God the Father and God the Son share their glory, they must both be Yahweh.
ii. “He had one main petition: that the Father would receive him back to the glory he had relinquished to accomplish his task. This petition for a return to his pristine glory implies unmistakably his preexistence and equality with the Father. It confirms his claim that he and the Father are one (Joh_10:30).” (Tenney)
iii. The Gospel of John has emphasized the glory of Jesus throughout its record. John was careful to record the many ways Jesus referred to His own glory in this prayer.
• The life of Jesus was a manifestation of God’s glory, and the disciples beheld this glory (Joh_1:14).
• The miracles of Jesus manifested His glory (Joh_2:11).
• Jesus only ever sought the glory of His Father (Joh_7:18; Joh_8:50).
• The revelation of glory is the reward of faith (Joh_11:40).
• Many times Jesus spoke of His coming passion and crucifixion as His coming glorification (Joh_7:39; Joh_12:16; Joh_12:23; Joh_13:31).
• God the Son seeks to glorify God the Father (Joh_12:28).
• God the Father glorifies God the Son (Joh_13:31-32).
(David Guzik)
Mungo
Member
That's a complete copout.
There not just a sense in the which Jesus work was finished.
It was not finished, no ifs, no buts.
O' dear. His work goes on in heaven, but His work here on earth as regards salvation is finished. That is what he came to do.
.
Last edited: