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Why did Jesus say "I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God."?

J

Jesussaves1111

Member
And why did he drink the sour wine vinegar before his death on the cross? This part of the gospels has been confusing me lately and I have been struggling to understand what he meant


Matthew 26:29- 29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.


Mark 14:25- 25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.


Luke 22:18- 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
 
I interpret that to mean that the next time He drinks wine will be after His Resurrection sitting at His Father's right hand.
 
Mark 15 :23 kjv
23. And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received itnot.

This is wine from the vine, but with something to kill the pain. Jesus was to suffer so he did not drink it. Also he needed his mind clear as to what was going on.

The vinegar you mentioned he tasted, but probably did not drink.

Symbolism abounds in all this. Jesus tasted death, but was not bound by it. The bitterness he tasted but at the resurrection he would drink wine to celebrate the raising of the saints (?) (those born from the grave).

I sure do not see all the symbolism.

eddif
 
Hi Jesussaves1111 and welcome to CF :wave2

You can not put new wine into old wine skins as they wear out and the new wine leaks out. It won't be until we receive our new glorified bodies (new wine skins) that are incorruptible and immortal, 1Corinthians 15:51- 57 that we will then be gathered to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb in the New Jerusalem, Matthew 9:17; Revelation 19:6-10.
 
Hebrews 2:9 kjv
9. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

eddif
 
Jesussaves1111 said:
And why did he drink the sour wine vinegar before his death on the cross? This part of the gospels has been confusing me lately and I have been struggling to understand what he meant
Click to expand...
Jesus said on the cross "It is finsished". A big question is what was finished?
Here is an interesting theory I found recently.

The "it" that was finished was the Passover meal that Jesus had been celebrating with his disciples.
Crazy? Bear with me on this.

The Passover meal has four parts to it. Each one end with the drinking of a cup of wine. There is only one cup of wine mentioned in the gospels. This is the third cup. We know this because it came at the end of the meal. The meal was not started until the first two parts were completed.

This third cup is known as the Cup of Blessing".
Paul writes
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? (1Cor 10:16)

Then Matthew tells us that they sang a hymn. This would be the Great Hallel (psalms 114-118) which is sung in the fourth part. Normally then they would drink the fourth cup of wine and the presiding priest would close the Passover meal with the words "Tel Telesti" which means "It Is Finshed" or "It Is Completed".

But no fourth cup was drunk. They went out to the Garden of Gethsemane.

But on the cross, just before he dies, Jesus says "I thirst" and a sponge with sour wine ("common wine" in the NAB) is given him. Jesus drank the wine and said "It is finished" meaning the Passover meal is closed, ended. But not just that Passover meal, all Passover meals are ended.

The New Covenant begins. The New Covenant in Jesus' blood.

Jesussaves1111 said:
Matthew 26:29- 29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.


Mark 14:25- 25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
Click to expand...


The Venerable Bede (672/3 – 735) wrote on this:
Or else, Isaiah testifies that the synagogue is called the vine or the vineyard of the Lord, saying, The vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel. (Is. 5:7) The Lord therefore when about to go to His Passion, says, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, as if He had said openly, I will no longer delight in the carnal rites of the synagogue, in which also these rites of the Paschal Lamb have held the chief place. For the time of my resurrection shall come, that day shall come, when in the kingdom of heaven, that is, raised on high with the glory of immortal life, I will be filled with a new joy, together with you, for the salvation of the same people born again of the fountain of spiritual grace.
 
Mungo said:
Jesus said on the cross "It is finsished". A big question is what was finished?
Here is an interesting theory I found recently.

The "it" that was finished was the Passover meal that Jesus had been celebrating with his disciples.
Crazy? Bear with me on this.

The Passover meal has four parts to it. Each one end with the drinking of a cup of wine. There is only one cup of wine mentioned in the gospels. This is the third cup. We know this because it came at the end of the meal. The meal was not started until the first two parts were completed.

This third cup is known as the Cup of Blessing".
Paul writes
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? (1Cor 10:16)

Then Matthew tells us that they sang a hymn. This would be the Great Hallel (psalms 114-118) which is sung in the fourth part. Normally then they would drink the fourth cup of wine and the presiding priest would close the Passover meal with the words "Tel Telesti" which means "It Is Finshed" or "It Is Completed".

But no fourth cup was drunk. They went out to the Garden of Gethsemane.

But on the cross, just before he dies, Jesus says "I thirst" and a sponge with sour wine ("common wine" in the NAB) is given him. Jesus drank the wine and said "It is finished" meaning the Passover meal is closed, ended. But not just that Passover meal, all Passover meals are ended.

The New Covenant begins. The New Covenant in Jesus' blood.




The Venerable Bede (672/3 – 735) wrote on this:
Or else, Isaiah testifies that the synagogue is called the vine or the vineyard of the Lord, saying, The vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel. (Is. 5:7) The Lord therefore when about to go to His Passion, says, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, as if He had said openly, I will no longer delight in the carnal rites of the synagogue, in which also these rites of the Paschal Lamb have held the chief place. For the time of my resurrection shall come, that day shall come, when in the kingdom of heaven, that is, raised on high with the glory of immortal life, I will be filled with a new joy, together with you, for the salvation of the same people born again of the fountain of spiritual grace.
Click to expand...
So Jesus had the presence of mind to time the Passover meal of His Body and blood. The rite He instituted the night before,with the One Sacrifice of His Body and blood. Wow! I mean Jesus so tightly bound heaven and earth, eternity and time.
In the agony of death Jesus is focused on the needs of others.
 
miamited said:
Hi Mungo

Actually, what was 'finished' when Jesus spoke those words was his Father's plan for our salvation.

God bless,
Ted
Click to expand...

How could that be since when He spoke those words, He had not yet died, nor rose from the dead?

The plan of salvation included the death and resurrection...

---> "The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." (Luke 24:7)

---> "Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification."(Romans 4:25)

---> "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." (1 Cor 15:17)


Based on your interpretation, Jesus should have said, "It is almost finished", given He had not yet died nor resurrected.


I would like to suggest that what happened and was finished on Good Friday actually began the night before in the Upper Room on Holy Thursday. I posted a link previously, where I attempt to explain what exactly was finished on Good Friday. The following video does a great job juxtaposing that which began in the Upper Room on Holy Thursday with its completion / consummation / finishing on Good Friday. You can start at the 1:34 min mark for the exact moment I am referencing...

 
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Walpole said:
How could that be since when He spoke those words, He had not yet died, nor rose from the dead?

The plan of salvation included the death and resurrection...

---> "The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." (Luke 24:7)

---> "Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification."(Romans 4:25)

---> "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." (1 Cor 15:17)


Based on your interpretation, Jesus should have said, "It is almost finished", given He had not yet died nor resurrected.


I would like to suggest that what happened and was finished on Good Friday actually began the night before in the Upper Room on Holy Thursday. I posted a link previously, where I attempt to explain what exactly was finished on Good Friday. The following video does a great job juxtaposing that which began in the Upper Room on Holy Thursday with its completion / consummation / finishing on Good Friday. You can start at the 1:34 min mark for the exact moment I am referencing...

Click to expand...

Also Jesus had to present his sacrifice to the Father.
When the Jews made an animal sacrifice for atonement, that atonement did not happen when the animal died but when the priest offered it to God. See Heb 9:11-14 for an account of Jesus offering his sacrifice to God.
 
Mungo said:
Also Jesus had to present his sacrifice to the Father.
When the Jews made an animal sacrifice for atonement, that atonement did not happen when the animal died but when the priest offered it to God. See Heb 9:11-14 for an account of Jesus offering his sacrifice to God.
Click to expand...
Great point.
 
1 Peter 2:24 kjv
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

It (the death on the cross) was finished.

Romans 8:11 kjv
11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

The Godhead is involved….

eddif
 
eddif said:
1 Peter 2:24 kjv
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

It (the death on the cross) was finished.

Romans 8:11 kjv
11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

The Godhead is involved….

eddif
Click to expand...

Again, when Jesus said, "It is finished", He had not yet died, nor rose from the dead. Ergo, "It is finished" must refer to something which had already begun and which truly finished when He spoke those words.
 
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Hi Walpole,

Walpole said:
How could that be since when He spoke those words, He had not yet died, nor rose from the dead?
Click to expand...

His death was imminent. Within moments of his saying those words and he knew that it was done. He wasn't going to come down off of that cross and skip out on his role in God's plan. His resurrection was not a part of God's plan of salvation. It was merely proof to us that God could do what He has told us He will do for us if our faith in His Son was real, but the resurrection itself had nothing to do with our being able to be saved. We are saved by the blood of Jesus shed on that field in Jerusalem on that day. Just as we are told in the Scriptures, there is no forgiveness of sin unless there is blood shed. It doesn't say that there is no forgiveness of sin unless one is raised from the dead. God merely gave us that testimony and evidence of Jesus' resurrection that we could know that God can do what He has promised to do.

Walpole said:
The plan of salvation included the death and resurrection...
Click to expand...
No. The plan of God's salvation has nothing to do with Jesus' resurrection. Again, Jesus told his disciples that it would happen that way so that they would know that when they saw him resurrected that they could believe in the words of our God and His ability to do what He has promised to do.

You are surely welcome to believe as you believe, but it just isn't so.

Walpole said:
"And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." (1 Cor 15:17)
Click to expand...
That is true. If Jesus were not able to be raised from the dead by his Father, then the promise was useless. But God clearly showed us that He can do what He has promised to do, but the resurrection itself doesn't have any effect on whether or not we are saved by the shedding of blood. That's why God showed us the resurrected Christ. But the act of the resurrection had nothing to do with God's process of being able to be saved, but rather was the testimony that we would be saved.

God began, with the calling of Abram, to work out a great plan of salvation for mankind. Abram, later named Abraham, was to raise up a people who would be God's people upon the earth and do His bidding. Despite their stiff necked attitude, God carried them all the way from writing the Scriptures to preparing and slaughter of the Lamb.

God bless,
Ted
 
miamited

In post #11 I asked for evidence for your claim in post #10
You have given none.

I note that in your reply to Walpole you give no evidence for your claims.
They are all just your opinions - assertions without evidence.

There is a maxim - that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
 
Mungo said:
miamited

In post #11 I asked for evidence for your claim in post #10
You have given none.

I note that in your reply to Walpole you give no evidence for your claims.
They are all just your opinions - assertions without evidence.

There is a maxim - that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Click to expand...
I really thought post 15 should answer part of your proof.

I will try and qualify: Jesus’s part of the fathers plan was finished.

The spirit that raised Jesus from the dead is another’s work.

When I read a thread I do look to see if a question is answered. A particular person does not have to answer the question. This is the same concept we are discussing here.
The Father had a plan out of love for the world.

The Son carried out His part as the express image of the godhead bodily.

The spirit that raisedChrist from the dead did a part.

By extension: John the Baptist, Mary, Joseph, Roman official declared him clean, on and on different people were used.

This thread has participants in the discussion. It is not a dominate one only that says it all. I sure can not get it all together. No way. There is a corporate effort that gets it done. We have a moderator / administrator that this web site uses that plays a part. We should understand all this and more takes place. The Holy Spirit leads. We hopefully follow.
The quickening spirit of Jesus Christ in dwells those who open the door.

Mississippi redneck low 3rd class
eddif
 
eddif said:
I really thought post 15 should answer part of your proof.

I will try and qualify: Jesus’s part of the fathers plan was finished.
Click to expand...

That's just speculation. And it ignores the point that Jesus had to present his offering to the Father in heaven.



eddif said:
The spirit that raised Jesus from the dead is another’s work.
Click to expand...
Or perhaps it's all the work of the one Godhead.

eddif said:
The Father had a plan out of love for the world.

The Son carried out His part as the express image of the godhead bodily.

The spirit that raisedChrist from the dead did a part.
Click to expand...
And Pilate did his work as part of the plan?

You are just speculating on no firm basis.
 
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