Why didnt God take away the choice without violating freewill

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Carry_Your_Name said:
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thess. 2:11-12)
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That seems a strange thing to do for a God who desires all men without exception to be saved, and who is merciful and gracious, Slow to anger, and abounding in mercy.

Again if God desires all men to be saved, and sent His Son to atone for all men, and has raised up apostles, preachers, missionaries to spread His word and He tells us:
Isa 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

It seems strange that all men are not saved.

At this point people come in with "free will" and say that God only desires all men to have the chance to make the choice for themselves.

Col 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled

How come the long suffering God didn't do this for the people in your verse?
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
God's Gracious Eternal Purpose in Christ is to save us FROM sin.
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Actually God's eternal purpose is to bring many sons to glory.
Heb 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

How would He make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings without their being sin in the world?

Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death

The determined purpose of God was Jesus being taken by lawless men and mocked, whipped and crucified.
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
You're blaspheming God by maligning his character.
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God Himself says He allows evil. I'm simply willing to accept it.

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, "Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Satan has asked God for permission to test Peter just as he did with Job. He apparently got permission. Jesus says He will pray for him that his faith doesn't fail.

Did this have any good purpose? Satan wanted to destroy Peter and all the disciples. Why did God let Peter into the hands of Satan? Maybe God uses it for a good purpose?

James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

The word "trials" is G3986 - peirasmos. The KJV translates Strong's G3986 in the following manner: temptation (19x), temptations (1x), try (1x).

It is used in Matthew 6:13 in the Lord's prayer where Jesus says "lead us not into temptation."

Luke 4:13 Now when the devil had ended every temptation (G3986), he departed from Him until an opportune time.

These trials or temptations are the method God uses as Paul says:
Rom 5:3-4 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope.

Satan works for himself and has his own agenda, but an all wise God can use Satan's devices for His own purpose.

And we Calvinist know that all things, even Satan's temptations, work together for good, not for everybody, but for those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
You're blaspheming God by maligning his character.
Click to expand...
God Himself says He allows evil. I'm simply willing to accept it.

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, "Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Satan has asked God for permission to test Peter just as he did with Job. He apparently got permission. Jesus says He will pray for him that his faith doesn't fail.

Did this have any good purpose? Satan wanted to destroy Peter and all the disciples. Why did God let Peter into the hands of Satan? Maybe God uses it for a good purpose?

James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

The word "trials" is G3986 - peirasmos. The KJV translates Strong's G3986 in the following manner: temptation (19x), temptations (1x), try (1x).

It is used in Matthew 6:13 in the Lord's prayer where Jesus says "lead us not into temptation."

Luke 4:13 Now when the devil had ended every temptation (G3986), he departed from Him until an opportune time.

These trials or temptations are the method God uses as Paul says:
Rom 5:3-4 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope.

Satan works for himself and has his own agenda, but an all wise God can use Satan's devices for His own purpose.

And we Calvinist know that all things, even Satan's temptations, work together for good, not for everybody, but for those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
 
Whatever said:
That seems a strange thing to do for a God who desires all men without exception to be saved, and who is merciful and gracious, Slow to anger, and abounding in mercy.
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God desires all men to be saved, but not all men desire to be saved. Salvation is not forced, it must be accepted with mutual consent.
 
Whatever said:
How would He make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings without their being sin in the world?
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Jesus wasn't "made", He was the second person of the trinity co-eternal and co-equal with God, before the world and - consequently, sins of the world - ever existed. He was not a fix or an overthought.
 
Whatever said:
Did this have any good purpose? Satan wanted to destroy Peter and all the disciples. Why did God let Peter into the hands of Satan? Maybe God uses it for a good purpose?
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God's good purpose is for Peter and all the disciples to overcome Satan's purpose to destroy them, which is NOT God's purpose. Again, God cannot be tempted, neither does He tempt anybody. I simply accept that. Calling any form of temptation God's purpose is blasphemy.
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
Jesus wasn't "made", He was the second person of the trinity co-eternal and co-equal with God, before the world and - consequently, sins of the world - ever existed. He was not a fix or an overthought.
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Heb 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Luke 2:40 And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

This is a simple concept that Jesus, born as a baby, would have to learn and grow and experience life as we do.

Heb 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
God desires all men to be saved, but not all men desire to be saved.
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Then you have a theology full of contradiction.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'

Pleasure = H2656 = chêphets = pleasure; hence (abstractly) desire

I will do all my pleasure or desire (God cannot lie)
I desire all men (without exception) to be saved
Therefore, all men (without exception) will be saved.

Or, All can be meant individually or collectively:
individually
each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
collectively
some of all types

Which understanding gets rid of the contradiction.

I will do all my pleasure or desire (God cannot lie)
I desire all (some of all types of) men to be saved
Therefore, some of all types of men will be saved.

Revelation tells us that a great multitude which no one could number, out of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues will be saved.

Isa 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

It appears that God sent His word out to save a great multitude which no one could number, out of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues.

ACCOMPLISHED. No contradictions.
 
Whatever said:
This is a simple concept that Jesus, born as a baby, would have to learn and grow and experience life as we do.
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Nonetheless Jesus is God in human form, He's NOT a created being.
Whatever said:
I will do all my pleasure or desire (God cannot lie)
I desire all men (without exception) to be saved
Therefore, all men (without exception) will be saved.
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Your twisted logic contradicts both reality and the bible.

“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matt. 7:13-14
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. - Jn. 3:19
 
KV-44-v1 said:
While debating on Reddit, i found this interesting objection.

"And this God could have simply removed the option for [adam and eve] to do that while keeping every other part of their free will intact, and as specified above, it already seems He hates that particular part of humankind's free will, so why not take away from the start instead of setting up a situation where it would be possible for that to happen?"
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Because that eliminates the choice.

So much for freedom.

What could they choose then?

"Good Adam. Good Eve. Well done programmed mind slaves who could not choose anything but me."

Low resolution argument.

God wins again.

:)
 
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