Why didnt God take away the choice without violating freewill

[brightfame52]

This is what Is. 5:20 is warning about, calling good evil and evil good, calling light darkness and darkness light. God purposed salvation FROM sin, not sin itself, it is you who're blaspheming God by attributing sin to Him. It is as ridiculous as framing abortion - the termination of a reproduction cycle - as a "reproductive right".

This was purposed b4 the world began. And its blasphemous to say God is to blame because He purposed sin in order to show forth for all ages, the exceeding riches of His Grace to His Elect.

Eph 2:7

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

God purposed this before the world began In Christ Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

 

[brightfame52]

Carry_Your_Name

This is what Is. 5:20 is warning about, calling good evil and evil good, calling light darkness and darkness light.

Yet thats what you are doing, calling Gods Gracious Eternal Purpose in Christ, to save from sin, evil !

 

[brightfame52]

No, Satan started it first by confronting God along with other "sons of God". God didn't summon any of them.

Because it was Gods purpose first. God started the whole drama Job 2:1-3

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

3 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Satan hadnt said a word about Job first in this narrative, God did

You would have had a point if satan would have first stated, What about your servant Job,but it didnt go down like that.

 

[Whatever]

No, this is victimhood mentality, an excuse for sin.

So you have come up with a new physiological condition. I am not looking for an excuse for my sin.

Act 4:27 "For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done.

Pontius Pilate, the Gentiles and the people of Israel did exactly what God had purposed and determined before to be done. I guess Luke had a victim mentality also.

 

[follower]

It wasn't God's purpose for them to sin, but it was His purpose for them to eat the Tree of Knowledge - when they were READY. I believe God put the tree in the garden as a test of obedience and compliance, which Adam failed.

Today, everyone has failed the test. They choose to remain disobedient, instead of repenting, usually.

 

[follower]

We assume it for the basically the same reason people tend to assume murder is bad.

Word catch! No one should assume murder is bad.

 

[follower]

the source of knowledge remains the same.

1 from God.
2 from hasatan.
3 from man.
4 from the flesh.
5 from wiki
6 from television
7 from parents
8 from religious priests, pastors and teachers.

only one is truth and in harmony with the Creator.

 

[follower]

Whats the version ? Rsv? Niv? ?

Like it matters? No one has shown that here.

 

[follower]

How did you come by this take, that God might, later on, let people eat from the tree after they do the necessary things?

Is it true that Jesus is the Only Way to Life ? He Is The Vine , we in Him are the branches! Does The Creator let anyone enjoy eternal life in Jesus Today ?

 

[Whatever]

Yes I do, but again, that's Satan's purpose, NOT God's. God cannot be tempted, neither does he tempt anybody. You ask your dad's permission to drink alcohol and your dad greenlights it is not the same as your dad pours you a cup and tempts you to drink. In the former case, dad definitely knows the negative consequence of drinking alcohol, however his purpose is to teach you a lesson so you won't drink again.

And so, God doesn't have to directly tempt anybody, He has Satan to do it for Him.

1Ch 21:1 Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.

The word "moved"
sooth = stimulate; by implication to seduce: - entice, move, persuade, provoke, remove, set on, stir up, take away.

2Sa 24:1 Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."

It uses the same word "moved."
It is obvious that it is talking about the same event. Two different authors give different perspectives.

God didn't "tempt" David directly. He allowed Satan to stimulate, seduce, move, persuade or provoke David.

1Ki 22:20 And the LORD said, 'Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead? . . .

"persuade" paw-thaw' = delude: - allure, deceive, enlarge, entice, flatter, persuade

1Ki 22:21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, and said, 'I will persuade him.'
1Ki 22:22 The LORD said to him, 'In what way?' So he said, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And the LORD said, 'You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.'

So this spirit volunteered to to lie to Ahab to delude, allure, deceive, enlarge, entice, flatter, persuade him to go to Ramoth Gilead where he would die.

And the Lord who hates a lying tongue (Prov 6:17) told this spirit to go out and do that very thing.
But I guess it is different because a spirit doesn't have a tongue.

 

[Indentured Servant]

While debating on Reddit, i found this interesting objection.

"And this God could have simply removed the option for [adam and eve] to do that while keeping every other part of their free will intact, and as specified above, it already seems He hates that particular part of humankind's free will, so why not take away from the start instead of setting up a situation where it would be possible for that to happen?"

Humans inherently have free will. We can exercise it until we accept God's Will. Those of us who accept that we were "bought with a price," are to willingly give up free will for the will of God.
Can we still make choices outside of His will? Yes, but those choices often contradict, or at least, distract us from, His will. He allows that to the point that we are no longer living in His will. He will discipline us if we go too far.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

This was purposed b4 the world began. And its blasphemous to say God is to blame because He purposed sin in order to show forth for all ages, the exceeding riches of His Grace to His Elect.

Yeah, grace, not sin. What part of that don't you understand? It's blasphemous to say God purposed sin - which by definition is missing God's mark, contradicting God's purpose.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Yet thats what you are doing, calling Gods Gracious Eternal Purpose in Christ, to save from sin, evil !

No, that's what you're doing by calling sin God's purpose. God's Gracious Eternal Purpose in Christ is to save us FROM sin.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Satan hadnt said a word about Job first in this narrative, God did

Satan appeared to God first, He started it, God did NOT summon him or any son of God. Whatever God said is His response to their confrontation.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

So you have come up with a new physiological condition. I am not looking for an excuse for my sin.

Act 4:27 "For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done.

Pontius Pilate, the Gentiles and the people of Israel did exactly what God had purposed and determined before to be done. I guess Luke had a victim mentality also.

What's predetermined is salvation FROM sin, not sin itself. As long as you call sin God's purpose, you're making excuse for your sin. God's one and only purpose is for us made in his image to fill and subdue the earth, everything else is subject to that, and ultimately it'll be fulfilled by Jesus - all nations on earth will submit to his authority: “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” (Matt. 28:18-20)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Today, everyone has failed the test. They choose to remain disobedient, instead of repenting, usually.

That's why we need Jesus who has atoned for our sins. What I mean in that statement is that evil is NOT God's purpose, but the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil is necessary, it is His purpose for us to be wise, equipped with this knowledge to discern good and evil.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

And so, God doesn't have to directly tempt anybody, He has Satan to do it for Him.

Satan doesn't do it "for HIM", Satan does it for himself. God does NOT tempt. You're blaspheming God by maligning his character.

Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. (James 1:13-15)

In the case of Ahab, that evil spirit was God's punishment for him, a strong delusion God sent for him. Ahab had made up his own mind, his heart was as hardened as the Pharoah's, that's on him, not God.

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thess. 2:11-12)

 

[brightfame52]

Carry_Your_Name

Yeah, grace, not sin

Cant have it that way, Grace was for the deliverance from sin and death. Eph 2:5-8

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

This world was created for Jesus Christ the Saviour Col 1:14-17

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

 

[brightfame52]

No, that's what you're doing by calling sin God's purpose. God's Gracious Eternal Purpose in Christ is to save us FROM sin.

Thats exactly what you are doing, calling Gods saving purposes from sin, evil

 

[brightfame52]

Satan appeared to God first, He started it, God did NOT summon him or any son of God. Whatever God said is His response to their confrontation.

Satan hadnt said a word about Job first in this narrative, God did !