Why didnt God take away the choice without violating freewill

[Indentured Servant]

There's no such thing. He was thrown out of heaven by God. One consensus among theologians about him is that he might be a worship leader of angels in heaven, that was his role. Not a "watcher".

A "worship leader!?"
You may place your trust in the "consensus of theologians," but I rely on only what the Word of God reveals.

I find it quite interesting that you suddenly responded in opposition of my comments in two different topics back-to-back... The other response you made had nothing to do with what I had written, so I'm a bit confused, and somewhat concerned that you have an issue with me, and not so much with anything I've written.

I've somehow struck a nerve with you, unintentionally, of course. Am I to expect that you are going to search for things I've contributed to oppose me further?

 

[Whatever]

It was his duty to present any observations to God... Satan was assigned to watch over God's people... He became arrogant and began accusing and belittling those who God loved...

There is nothing about this in the Bible. It sounds like some man made theory.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

If God cannot be tempted.....then why does the Bible state Jesus was tempted here on the earth by Satan?

Jesus didn't fall for the temptation, did he. That just proved it.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

A "worship leader!?"
You may place your trust in the "consensus of theologians," but I rely on only what the Word of God reveals.

The Word of God did reveal that he was a powerful cherub that "covered" God's throne, and He was thrown out of heaven for his usurpation. And any theologian would have more credibility and better understanding of the Scripture than you a random guy on the internet.

 

[brightfame52]

God didn't summon Satan or any of his cronies, Satan presented himself to God!

Satan hadnt said a word about Job first in this narrative, God did !

 

[Indentured Servant]

The Word of God did reveal that he was a powerful cherub that "covered" God's throne, and He was thrown out of heaven for his usurpation. And any theologian would have more credibility and better understanding of the Scripture than you a random guy on the internet.

To you I'm a random guy... You have no idea who I am, what I know, who I know, or how I came to know.

When we ask God for wisdom, insight, or interpretation of His Word, He does not lead us to theologians...

btw, I am known as a theologian to some, as well, I've preached, taught scripture, studied numerous theologians for decades, written books, blah, blah blah... I do count all that as useless because it really means nothing to me. I guess you can say I saw how fruitless that reputation was for me.

I'd take the "random guy" put down you've offered me and accept it as a compliment. It means I've finally been able to shed the false persona that so many people still depend on...

Oh, aren't we all just random guys (and gals) on here? It sounds like I have no right, in your mind, to speak on scripture unless I've made money publishing series of books and near the professional title of "Theologian." That's a sad, and dangerous way to approach Scripture and the One whose Word it is...

 

[Indentured Servant]

There is nothing about this in the Bible. It sounds like some man made theory.

Kinda like "worship leader for angels?"

Tell me how many times in scripture Satan stood before God to report on God's people? If you don't know how many times, then you don't know scripture enough to second guess what it says.

Do you not know that the title 'devil' means "accuser,slanderer?"
Do you not know that Satan was created as a "guardian cherub" for God's people?
Did you not know he once wore twelve precious stones, as did the appointed High Priest who went to God on behalf of God's people?

The best protection from the enemy is to know everything you can about that enemy... and not assume that because theologians think he's some sort of a choir director that he's any less powerful than he is.

My apology for assuming everyone understands who and what the purpose Satan was originally assigned. I will try to qualify every statement I make with scripture... If everyone else agrees to do so without merely stating "the theologians say this or that..."

 

[Whatever]

Do you not know that Satan was created as a "guardian cherub" for God's people?
Did you not know he once wore twelve precious stones,

I am assuming you are talking about what was said about the King of Tyre.

Eze 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

I only count 10 precious stones, not 12. I don't see anything about Satan being a guardian cherub for God's people.

Kinda like "worship leader for angels?"

You must be talking about the times in Revelation where it says "To the angel of the church of ----- write."
You must also know that angel simply means "messenger."

In Malachi, it tells of one "angel God will send:
Mal 3:1 "Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me.

Here is what Strongs says about that word: H4397 - mal'âk
From an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; specifically of God, that is, an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher): - ambassador, angel, king, messenger.

Mat 11:7 As they went away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds concerning John . . .(the Baptist)
Mat 11:10 This is he of whom it is written, “‘Behold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way before you.’

If John the Baptist was called an angel, why can't pastors or elders (leaders) of a Church be angels?

 

[Indentured Servant]

You must be talking about the times in Revelation where it says "To the angel of the church of ----- write."

The "worship leader for angels" was from the previous person in this conversation, who alleged it was based on a consensus of theologians. I think that's laughable. I mentioned it, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, to illustrate how some people can say whatever they want and no one questions them if they reference anonymous theologians over what scripture actually says.

If that's what you believe, then perhaps we shouldn't communicate... You seem quite sure of yourself and that certainly hinders mutual respect.

I offered my perspective... You don't have to agree with me, or even with scripture, but please don't pick apart everything I say or make assumptions (as you have) about what I believe scripture to say. It makes this conversation feel quite personal.

I feel as if I'm being judged for not agreeing with something that has no scriptural foundation...

If that's what this site is about, perhaps it operates under a "consensus" of theological belief, which is quite unappealing to me.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Satan hadnt said a word about Job first in this narrative, God did !

God didn't summon Satan or any of his cronies, Satan presented himself to God!

 

[MisterE]

While debating on Reddit, i found this interesting objection.

"And this God could have simply removed the option for [adam and eve] to do that while keeping every other part of their free will intact, and as specified above, it already seems He hates that particular part of humankind's free will, so why not take away from the start instead of setting up a situation where it would be possible for that to happen?"

If you take it away, you take the ability to love away.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

To you I'm a random guy... You have no idea who I am, what I know, who I know, or how I came to know.

When we ask God for wisdom, insight, or interpretation of His Word, He does not lead us to theologians...

btw, I am known as a theologian to some, as well, I've preached, taught scripture, studied numerous theologians for decades, written books, blah, blah blah... I do count all that as useless because it really means nothing to me. I guess you can say I saw how fruitless that reputation was for me.

I'd take the "random guy" put down you've offered me and accept it as a compliment. It means I've finally been able to shed the false persona that so many people still depend on...

Oh, aren't we all just random guys (and gals) on here? It sounds like I have no right, in your mind, to speak on scripture unless I've made money publishing series of books and near the professional title of "Theologian." That's a sad, and dangerous way to approach Scripture and the One whose Word it is...

You know, Satan's greatest sin for which God cast him out of heaven is pride, and the opposite of pride is humility. Humility isn't thinking less of yourself, but thinking yourself less. I've come to this place to think myself less and discuss the word of God, I sincerely regard myself as a "random guy", while you are boasting of your credentials, you assume you're smarter than all of those theologians, your own wisdom is superior than their wisdom accumulated over the centuries. It's not about who's right and who's wrong, but who's got gratitude and who's got an attitude.

 

[brightfame52]

God didn't summon Satan or any of his cronies, Satan presented himself to God!

Satan hadn't said a word about Job first in this narrative, God did ! Who initiated the challenge regarding job in the narrative ? Job 2:1-3

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

2 ;And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

3 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Satan hadn't said a word about Job first in this narrative, God did ! Who initiated the challenge regarding job in the narrative ? Job 2:1-3

Who challenged God in the first place?

There was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Jesus didn't fall for the temptation, did he. That just proved it.

But you said God cannot be tempted at all...but Satan did it according to that Bible....

Jesus is God.....but he is not God the Father....and the Holy Spirit is something else entirely.....

 

[brightfame52]

Who challenged God in the first place?

There was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

Satan hadn't said a word about Job first in this narrative, God did ! Who initiated the challenge regarding job in the narrative ? Job 2:1-3

 

[KV-44-v1]

Satan was assigned to watch over God's people..

Sounds like somth straight outta Gnosticism. Sorce?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

But you said God cannot be tempted at all...but Satan did it according to that Bible....

Jesus is God.....but he is not God the Father....and the Holy Spirit is something else entirely.....

I didn’t say that, the Bible did, James 1:13. Satan’s tempting is one thing, Jesus falling to his temptation is another. Jesus resisted his temptation, that proves the point.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Satan hadn't said a word about Job first in this narrative, God did ! Who initiated the challenge regarding job in the narrative ? Job 2:1-3

Who challenged God in the first place?

There was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

 

[brightfame52]

Who challenged God in the first place?

There was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

Satan hadn't said a word about Job first in this narrative, God did ! Who initiated the challenge regarding job in the narrative ? Job 2:1-3