Why didnt God take away the choice without violating freewill

[Carry_Your_Name]

What connection does that have to my post?

A rebuke on your remark of "God purposed all things".

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

And yet, God uses sin to accomplish His purposes.

And yet, sin wasn't God's purpose, it's the result of human sin nature. Apart from God, humans naturally sin, and the wages of sin is death. It's like a fish out of water or a plant out of soil naturally dies, second law of theromodynamics.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

But He took the chance.

God is sovereign and eternal, everything is under his control, running on his schedule, He is beyond time and space, there's no taking of "chance" for the Creator of the universe.

 

[brightfame52]

And yet, sin wasn't God's purpose, it's the result of human sin nature. Apart from God, humans naturally sin, and the wages of sin is death. It's like a fish out of water or a plant out of soil naturally dies, second law of theromodynamics.

Incorrect, sin was Gods purpose just as Salvation from sin was in Godspurpose b4 the world began 2 Tim 1:9-10

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Both sin and death was in His Purpose !

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Both sin and death was in His Purpose !

No, sin is Satan's purpose, Death is the last enemy. The final victory is when Death is defeated. "The last enemy that will be destroyed is death." Jesus Christ was the second person co-equal and co-eternal with God, of course he was there with God before the world began!

 

[brightfame52]

No, sin is Satan's purpose, Death is the last enemy. The final victory is when Death is defeated. "The last enemy that will be destroyed is death." Jesus Christ was the second person co-equal and co-eternal with God, of course he was there with God before the world began!

sin and death, satan was in His Purpose !

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

sin and death, satan was in His Purpose !

You’re attributing Satan’s purpose to God. What God permitted is one thing, what God intended is another, big difference. See Job 1, Satan confronted and challenged God on Job’s faith in God, was it Satan’s purpose to torture Job, taking away everything he had? Or God’s?

 

[brightfame52]

Carry_Your_Name

You’re attributing Satan’s purpose to God.

More like satan is part of Gods purpose, satan only does what God purposed him to do. Like with Job, God purposed satan to get after Job 1:5-12

5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

 

[Whatever]

See Job 1, Satan confronted and challenged God on Job’s faith in God, was it Satan’s purpose to torture Job, taking away everything he had? Or God’s?

Do you not know that God is omniscient and has perfect foreknowledge. When the Lord asked Satan"
Job 1:8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?"

Do you not believe that Satan (the adversary - One who is turned against another or others with a design to oppose or resist them;) would basically answer the way he did and and that the Lord already knew this?

These weren't just nice biographical things. Paul tells us:
Co 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

These things happened and were written down so that New Covenant saints might learn something.
One thing we learn is that God allowed Satan to kill all of Job's children. Something that most of you guys say that God would never allow. If God allows it, then it must be part of His purpose.

 

[electedbyHim]

The Lord is Sovereign over everything, this includes sin.

God is Sovereign Exo 15:18; 1Chr 29:11-12; 2Chr 20:6; Psa 22:28

1. He exercises that sovereignty in actively ordaining everything

Deu 32:39; 1Sam 2:6-8; Job 9:12; Job 12:6-10; Psa 33:11; Psa 115:3; Psa 135:6; Isa 14:24; Isa 45:7; Act 15:18; Eph 1:11

• Including matters of “chance”

Pro 16:33; 1Ki 22:20, 34, 37

• The wicked actions of men

Gen 45:5; Gen 50:20; Exo 4:21; Jdg 14:1-4; Psa 76:10; Pro 16:4; Isa 44:28; Amos 3:6; Act 2:22-23; Act 4:27-28

• The actions of evil spirits

1Sam 16:14-16; 1Ki 22:19-23; 1Chr 21:1/2Sam 24:1

• The good actions of men

John 15:16; Eph 2:10; Phi 2:12-13

• The actions of good angels

Psa 103:20; Psa 104:4

• The actions of animals

Num 22:28; 1Ki 17:4; Psa 29:9; Jer 8:7; Eze 32:4; Dan 6:22

• The operations of all creation

Gen 8:22; Psa 104:5-10; Psa 104:13-14; Psa 104:19-20; Mark 4:39

1. Man is not permitted to question his sovereign acts

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

More like satan is part of Gods purpose, satan only does what God purposed him to do. Like with Job, God purposed satan to get after Job 1:5-12

No, Satan only does what God ALLOWS him to do, within the perimeter set by God. God didn't give Satan an order to torture Job as He gave Adam and Eve the order to go froth and multiply, Satan started it, God merely waved him off. Sadly you don't know the difference.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The Lord is Sovereign over everything, this includes sin.

God is good, all the time, He hates sin because he loves us, saying God purposed sin would be blaming God for sin.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Do you not believe that Satan (the adversary - One who is turned against another or others with a design to oppose or resist them;) would basically answer the way he did and and that the Lord already knew this?

Yes I do, but again, that's Satan's purpose, NOT God's. God cannot be tempted, neither does he tempt anybody. You ask your dad's permission to drink alcohol and your dad greenlights it is not the same as your dad pours you a cup and tempts you to drink. In the former case, dad definitely knows the negative consequence of drinking alcohol, however his purpose is to teach you a lesson so you won't drink again.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

If God allows it, then it must be part of His purpose.

No, this is victimhood mentality, an excuse for sin.

Victimhood: The Devils Crack

Our flesh nature craves victimhood because it uses it as an excuse to sin. I've seen 'victimhood' used to manipulate people. Even brainwash then. The world, where ever it is selling anything, almost always uses victimhood to sell it. Hollywood, the music industry, even politicians spoon feed it...

christianforums.net

 

[brightfame52]

Carry_Your_Name

No, Satan only does what God ALLOWS him to do

Same thing, God allowed it because it was part of His Purpose, so satan did it according to God's purpose, its right there before you in Job, yet you cant see it.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Carry_Your_Name



Same thing, God allowed it because it was part of His Purpose, so satan did it according to God's purpose, its right there before you in Job, yet you cant see it.

No you can't see it's Satan's purpose, what God allows is not what God intends. You're seeing through victimhood mentality.

 

[brightfame52]

God is good, all the time, He hates sin because he loves us, saying God purposed sin would be blaming God for sin.

Thats a foolish unlearned comment, God purposed sin so that He will be praised forever more for saving sinners by grace from sin Eph 2:5-7

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

This was purposed b4 the world began. And its blasphemous to say God is to blame because He purposed sin in order to show forth for al ages, the exceeding riches of His Grace to His Elect.

 

[brightfame52]

Carry_Your_Name

No you can't see it's Satan's purpose,

Because it was Gods purpose first. God started the whole drama Job 2:1-3

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

3 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

This was purposed b4 the world began. And its blasphemous to say God is to blame because He purposed sin in order to show forth for al ages, the exceeding riches of His Grace to His Elect.

This is what Is. 5:20 is warning about, calling good evil and evil good, calling light darkness and darkness light. God purposed salvation FROM sin, not sin itself, it is you who're blaspheming God by attributing sin to Him. It is as ridiculous as framing abortion - the termination of a reproduction cycle - as a "reproductive right".

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Because it was Gods purpose first. God started the whole drama Job 2:1-3

No, Satan started it first by confronting God along with other "sons of God". God didn't summon any of them.